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Same time the Navy is practicing submarine warfare. With live ammo in the area. Though I’m sure that is just a coincidence.
OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR
- Thread starter Greedo
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They hired this Skipper and First Mate.Same time the Navy is practicing submarine warfare. With live ammo in the area. Though I’m sure that is just a coincidence.
No they are not, but especially now that the arms race is entirely on. SEC might have cold shouldered them back in the day, but there's no way they aren't bidding on prime real estate in their own backyard, FSU and Clemson, now. The Big10 has been open to Va and NC for awhile and that hasn't changed, but FSU could very easily be on the map for them now too. It could simply come down to the SEC outbidding the 12 for FSU and Clemson as a matter of self defense, triggering Va and NC to the 10.
One way or another, the current ACC is all but dead. Whether it's a matter of contract law, civil liability, or political pressure (Florida gov't gets along with ESPN's parent company right?) there aren't enough lawyers, bubble gum and duct tape to keep in together even 2 more years, nevermind 12.
I'm very interested to see where the arms race ends. It takes 10 teams to get the SEC, 10, and 12 to 20 teams per conference. Does it stop there or do some or all go to 22 teams? That could be an extremely important difference to UCONN in the near future.
CL82
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ACC commissioner Jim Phillips bullish on league even with futures of Florida State, Clemson up in air
The conference is currently embroiled in multiple lawsuits with Florida State and Clemson as the two schools legally challenge the ACC's grant of rights
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Looking for pixie dust isn’t a good strategy:
When the B1G passed on him being commissioner, I was really surprised. I thought he was the next big thing. Good thing they did pass on him. He has been a huge flop in the ACC. Granted, circumstances play into this, but he hasn’t handled those circumstances well nor has he said the right things.
He's long handcuffed by now. Every day the ACC doesn't break out into an actual physical brawl is a win for him.
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The ACC can’t settle. Unles….ESPN tells them they need to.
It doesn’t matter. FSU and Clemson know what they know and they have burned the boats on the beach. There is no return for them.
They have the goods re obligations and will pay the Exit Fee.
It doesn’t matter. FSU and Clemson know what they know and they have burned the boats on the beach. There is no return for them.
They have the goods re obligations and will pay the Exit Fee.
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No. The suits can go on forever. Then appeals to higher courts. I don’t think that it will be “settled “ before Clemson and FSU announce. I think (with no evidence) that the networks are horse trading to arrive at a mutually satisfactory P2.
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Really? There's no court date where they need to make their case and then let judge(s) issue a ruling?
I'm pretty sure they can't or really really don't want to announce anything until they absolutely have no choice, they'd be accused of negotiating in bad faith and have yet another lawsuit on their hands. The Bigs and the SEC can't offer them anything before they announce their departure without getting sued for tampering. It's a real cluster.
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I heard an interesting take on FSU/Clemson today. ESPN actually wants the ACC to break up so FSU and Clemson can move to the SEC, an ESPN property. ESPN would retain the 2 best ACC football brands (and maybe 2 others), pays them more, but reduces their overall expenses. And, they get better matchups as viewers would rather watch FSU vs Georgia than FSU vs BC as an example. And, apparently ESPN was not too happy with the additions of SMU/Cal/Stanford as it forced them to pay more money for little value.
You want to be either the high end product (think SEC) or the low end product (think AAC) and not the middle tier product (ACC) as in business, the middle tier is always squeezed.
You want to be either the high end product (think SEC) or the low end product (think AAC) and not the middle tier product (ACC) as in business, the middle tier is always squeezed.
nelsonmuntz
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The FSU and Clemson cases feel like 2 things:
1) Getting the ball rolling in case ESPN decides not to renew the ACC during its contract lookin in a year. If ESPN renews, I don’t see any way out of the GOR. Ironically, FSU threatening to leave may encourage ESPN to continue the current contract because ESPN needs content and probably doesn’t want the ACC to break up.
2) There is definitely a component of performance art for FSU’s more moronic fans to FSU’s lawsuit. Ironically, between the CFP and House case, there seems to be less actual logic to FSU leaving.
1) Getting the ball rolling in case ESPN decides not to renew the ACC during its contract lookin in a year. If ESPN renews, I don’t see any way out of the GOR. Ironically, FSU threatening to leave may encourage ESPN to continue the current contract because ESPN needs content and probably doesn’t want the ACC to break up.
2) There is definitely a component of performance art for FSU’s more moronic fans to FSU’s lawsuit. Ironically, between the CFP and House case, there seems to be less actual logic to FSU leaving.
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The one thing that we have heard that might be able to nullify the GORs is the supposed extension by the ACC commissioner without approval of the schools of ESPN's option to extend the ACC media contract. That said, we don't know if that is true.
As for ESPN needing content, I think they have plenty of content right now. Take out the ACC and they have SEC football (which just added 2 schools), some Big 12 football (which just added a bunch of schools), AAC football, MAC football, SBC football and they could reach a media deal with the ACC left behinds as well. Remember, many of the ACC football games are on the ACCN and ACCN streaming and a bunch are on the CW as ESPN does not have the time slots.
FfldCntyFan
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If ESPN wants to set FSU and Clemson free, all they really need to do is refuse to give close to a market rate offer on the media extension. Fox may be willing to step in and offer something but if they are only competing with themselves, there is no need to give a competitive offer.
Without a media contract, the remaining rights (that have been granted) have little value which would allow for a buyout of basically nothing. The departure fee (which FSU has already publicly claimed they are willing to pay) would be the only real cost.
Without a media contract, the remaining rights (that have been granted) have little value which would allow for a buyout of basically nothing. The departure fee (which FSU has already publicly claimed they are willing to pay) would be the only real cost.
CL82
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I'm not convinced that the lack of a media contract, which I don't think would happen, makes the GOR valueless. I think that you would have to weigh its historic value against the current lack of an offer, maybe use a five-year weighted average or something.
For what it's worth, if ESPN refused to offer and Fox lowballed or didn't offer, I would expect ESPN to amends their answer with a new counterclaim stating that FSU and Clemson's public statements about the conference and their desire to leave devalued conferences GOR. I don't know if the ACC membership agreement has an anti-disparagement clause, but even if they didn't they could argue that the public discussion was a breach of fiduciary duty.
FfldCntyFan
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CL, you could be correct. The thing is nobody has ever had to value what an equitable buyout would be on one of these.
My thought process (which I've posted in greater detail a couple times over the years) would be to start at present value of future cash flows. If there is no contract covering the remainder of the GOR, logically it shouldn't cost a lot to buy your way out of it.
My thought process (which I've posted in greater detail a couple times over the years) would be to start at present value of future cash flows. If there is no contract covering the remainder of the GOR, logically it shouldn't cost a lot to buy your way out of it.
CL82
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That's not an unreasonable approach. This conversation made me laugh a little bit because I expect that it is a preview of what we would see in the inevitable dueling expert testimony to value something for which there is no known ascertainable value. The fact that it is uncharted territory is one of the big strengths of the GOR. Until somebody actually litigates it, it's value and enforceability is unknown.
Now, if ESPN didn't renew the contract, I would expect FSU to argue that it only gave the grant of rights to facilitate and extension of the ESPN contract. Thus, if there's no contract, there's no extension. That's a different argument than the GOR continues but is valueless, though it gets you to the same point.
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Well...so far it has been just dueling over jurisdiction...
You have five suits filed in three states...The North Carolina ACC vs FSU case is suspended until after the North Carolina Supreme Court hears FSU's appeal of jurisdiction...and the appeal seems somewhat open ended in time.
In Florida, the case of FSU vs the ACC will restart in a week or so...but so far, the judge has not ruled on jurisdiction...then there is Clemson's case against the ACC in South Carolina...and all of these suits can be appealed (and probably will be by the loser). And the State of Florida is suing the ACCin Florida for not complying with Florida law regarding public information.
Maybe by 2025...