Boise, Air Force, Houston, SMU, Navy and UCF

[Adios]

I like the enthusiasm, but I think you are grossly overestimating this impact. Nebraska has a huge following, but is in the middle of nowhere. Penn State is similarly isolated, but yet outdraws nearly everyone in NYC.

Demographics can help, but they are not the be-all, end-all you are making them. If Swofford calls up Herbst tomorrow and offers her entrance into the ACC, and she doesn't accept before he finishes the sentence, she needs to be fired.

I wouldn't be surprised if she said no after invites are accepted. As noted by someone else previously, the new Big East would make more per school than the ACC in the media.

 

[zls44]

I wouldn't be surprised if she said no after invites are accepted. As noted by someone else previously, the new Big East would make more per school than the ACC in the media.

I will bet you $1,000,000,000 that (a) she says yes and (b) the Big East makes 50% of what the ACC makes.

 

[tzznandrew]

If the money is going towards the cities, they will. Once upon a time, Ivy League schools ruled college football.

When the Ivy League ran things, a couple of things are important. Almost no one went to college. There weren't many of them, and most people had no interest.

For instance, UConn was founded in 1881. By that point, Yale had racked up, by some counts, 6 national championships. Actual football powers, like Oklahoma (1890), Texas (1883), or USC (1880) were already well behind them. Let alone actually fielding a football team.

On top of that, recruiting. Once that became common, the Ivies, who refused to do so, fell behind.

Once recruiting became prevalent, you pretty much see the same names with titles:

Michigan, ND, Ohio State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Miami, USC, Alabama, LSU, FSU, Penn State, Texas, etc.

 

[tzznandrew]

I wouldn't be surprised if she said no after invites are accepted. As noted by someone else previously, the new Big East would make more per school than the ACC in the media.

Aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure we will make less money (by a couple of million) than the New ACC (no BE has the national following of FSU, Clemson, VT), the ACC is more in line what we would like. Boise has a better football program than us (right now). But as an institution, there is almost nothing else in common. They're a fine addition (don't get me wrong) that could help save the BCS. But she would be utterly moronic to not jump at the ACC.

 

[husky10]

When the Ivy League ran things, a couple of things are important. Almost no one went to college. There weren't many of them, and most people had no interest.

For instance, UConn was founded in 1881. By that point, Yale had racked up, by some counts, 6 national championships. Actual football powers, like Oklahoma (1890), Texas (1883), or USC (1880) were already well behind them. Let alone actually fielding a football team.

On top of that, recruiting. Once that became common, the Ivies, who refused to do so, fell behind.

His point was that things change I can think back to a time when Notre Dame was competing for national title and BC wasn't completely irrelevant.

 

[Section205]

Not surprised. If you paid attention to history, you'd know winning and markets are what make programs successful. Being in large urban areas would help us outrecruit Mississippi schools, too. Geez. Try putting an NFL team in Mississippi.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Well then, I never realized how big the TV markets are in Tuscaloosa, Auburn, and Baton Rouge to make your case in point, right?

Markets are not what make programs successful.

I really hope you're joking Butchy.

 

[tzznandrew]

His point was that things change I can think back to a time when Notre Dame was competing for national title and BC wasn't completely irrelevant.

And my point was that there were certain societal changes, as well as rule changes, that shifted the football world away from the Ivies. Since then, it's pretty much been the same schools, with a few upstarts (Miami and Penn State in the 70s-80s).

As for ND, while they haven't competed for a national title, per se, they have been relevant frequently in the last 10 years. They went to the Fiesta Bowl in 2005, came into the next season ranked pre-season #2 (and finished 10-2) and went to the Sugar Bowl in 2006. They may be in a BCS game this year.

As for BC, they had Matt Ryan and were ranked #2 but a couple of years ago.

Things aren't going to change enough where UCF is a better football program than Alabama or UF, or where Boise State is a more desirable conference mate than UNC.

 

[BlueMAB]

Is Butchy being serious or just trying to be funny?

 

[tzznandrew]

Is Butchy being serious or just trying to be funny?

I think he's really excited. He has some reason--this isn't the armageddon that we thought it could be--but I think he's talked himself into this a little too much.

 

[junglehusky]

If we get the call we go. Period.

 

[Adios]

Look at this list, and you'll see how things change. Not hard to grasp. Economically, this country is undergoing massive changes. If you can't see that, too bad for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS

The oh-so-mighty Gators didn't even win a conference championship until the early 90s.

 

[BlueMAB]

I think he's really excited. He has some reason--this isn't the armageddon that we thought it could be--but I think he's talked himself into this a little too much.

You give him too much credit. He actually said Herbst might turn down an invite to the ACC.

 

[tzznandrew]

Look at this list, and you'll see how things change. Not hard to grasp. Economically, this country is undergoing massive changes. If you can't see that, too bad for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS

That's the list I used. Again, the Ivy championships come from an entirely different era, one where few went to college and there was no recruiting. They were basically the only ones playing football. Look at the "National Poll Championships (1936-Present)." That's an over 70 year window after those above stated changes had occurred. The only "surprises" on that list are Minnesota and Army, neither of which have won anything since 1960. The elite have, more or less, been the elite, with a few upstarts.

School​

Championships​

Seasons​

Alabama 8 1961, 1964, 1965 (AP), 1973 (Coaches), 1978 (AP), 1979, 1992, 2009
Notre Dame 8 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1966, 1973 (AP), 1977, 1988
Oklahoma 7 1950, 1955, 1956, 1974 (AP), 1975, 1985, 2000
USC 7 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974 (Coaches), 1978 (Coaches), 2003 (AP), 2004 (AP)*
Miami 5 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991 (AP), 2001
Nebraska 5 1970 (AP), 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997 (Coaches)
Ohio State 5 1942, 1954 (AP), 1957 (Coaches), 1968, 2002
Minnesota 4 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
Texas 4 1963, 1969, 1970 (Coaches), 2005
Florida 3 1996, 2006, 2008
LSU 3 1958, 2003 (Coaches), 2007
Army 2 1944, 1945
Auburn 2 1957 (AP), 2010
Florida State 2 1993, 1999
Michigan 2 1948, 1997 (AP)
Michigan State 2 1952, 1965 (Coaches)
Penn State 2 1982, 1986
Pittsburgh 2 1937, 1976
Tennessee 2 1951, 1998

 

[Adios]

Did you say "upstarts"? Golly gee willigers."

 

[tzznandrew]

Did you say "upstarts"? Golly gee willigers."

???

Did you just post a non sequitor to deflect attention from the fact that your point is wrong? Or maybe it is ad hominem in that you attempt to paint me in a poor light rather than dealing with my point. "Anyone who says 'upstart' must be old and out of touch (rather than, say, 27), and old people are senile (true) and going to die soon (also true), and so we shouldn't listen to him."

Classify them however you like.

Florida, Miami, and Penn State were relatively late to winning titles. Regardless, Penn State was not in a major media market, so I don't think that proves your point.

 

[Adios]

You give him too much credit. He actually said Herbst might turn down an invite to the ACC.

You people think the ACC is going to have a bigger contract with 4 schools in North Carolina and 2 schools in Virginia? Really? Pittsburgh, Syracuse are declining cities, as well. Just wait and see. Buffalo used to be one of the top ten cities in the US. Now it's higher than 50. We have 6 schools situated in HUGE metropolitan areas in the tri-state area, Dallas, Houston, Orlando and Tampa Bay. Then we have another 3 programs that have a national appeal in Boise State, Navy and Air Force. That's 9 out of 12 teams. You people make mathematics and simple logic look like rocket science.

 

[Adios]

???

Did you just post a non sequitor to deflect attention from the fact that your point is wrong?

Classify them however you like.

Florida, Miami, and Penn State were relatively late to winning titles. Regardless, Penn State was not in a major media market, so I don't think that proves your point.

I am not going to even bother to debate. Just wait till we get a new contract first before you be so quick to think the ACC is better off financially. TV revenue is far more money than gate revenue now, too. Penn State has two titles in the 80s. Wow.

 

[BlueMAB]

You people think the ACC is going to have a bigger contract with 4 schools in North Carolina and 2 schools in Virginia? Really? Pittsburgh, Syracuse are declining cities, as well. Just wait and see. Buffalo used to be one of the top ten cities in the US. Now it's higher than 50. We have 6 schools situated in HUGE metropolitan areas in the tri-state area, Dallas, Houston, Orlando and Tampa Bay. Then we have another 3 programs that have a national appeal in Boise State, Navy and Air Force. That's 9 out of 12 teams. You people make mathematics and simple logic look like rocket science.

I'm glad we won today too. It feels good. Drink a big glass of water, sleep it off, and come back to post when you're sober.

 

[tzznandrew]

You people think the ACC is going to have a bigger contract with 4 schools in North Carolina and 2 schools in Virginia? Really? Pittsburgh, Syracuse are declining cities, as well. Just wait and see. Buffalo used to be one of the top ten cities in the US. Now it's higher than 50. We have 6 schoolsw situated in HUGE metropolitan areas in the tri-state area, Dallas, Houston, Orlando and Tampa Bay. Then we have another 3 programs that have a national appeal in Boise State, Navy and Air Force. That's 9 out of 12 teams. You people make mathematics and simple logic look like rocket science.

I think that the problem is you're inventing your own logic. Many top academic schools, which attract many candidates, aren't in major metropolitan areas. Those schools have large, national alumni bases that support the school financially and via watching it on TV. Also, the older the school is, frequently, the more money it has, and more alumni.

USF (1956) and UCF (1963) are relatively young schools. They have a large student population, but I would wager that student support for the school is akin to CCSU or SCSU--i.e. very small relative to the student population. Also, Hartford and New Haven residents generally pull for the flagship university.

History suggests that the local population of where the school is located has little to do with national support nor athletic success. Those are the facts. The math is, historically, irrelevant.

But, just to humor you. North Carolina has the 10th highest population. Virginia the 12th. By comparison: Massachusetts the 14th, Kentucky the 26th, Connecticut the 29th, West Virginia the 37th, Idaho the 39th.

 

[tzznandrew]

Penn State has two titles in the 80s. Wow.

Look, while I'm 99% sure you are wrong about who will get more money per school, I hope you are right. Even, though, if we are making slightly more money per school, I'd advocate leaving to the ACC. More rivals, more stability, better basketball, universities more academically in line with UConn.

As to the above statement, if you don't think that Penn State is one of the premier college football schools in the country, with a huge fan base, than you are delusional.

 

[BlueMAB]

I am not going to even bother to debate. Just wait till we get a new contract first before you be so quick to think the ACC is better off financially. TV revenue is far more money than gate revenue now, too. Penn State has two titles in the 80s. Wow.

Stop thinking smalltime. Let's expand into China. Some of the fastest growing cities are in China. Billions of people. Think about that market. Imagine the TV revenue. We could call the conference "the Big Far East". I like.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/07/cities-china-chicago-opinions-columnists-joel-kotkin.html

 

[Adios]

How many of you are UConn alumni? Just a question out of curiosity.

 

[Adios]

I'm glad we won today too. It feels good. Drink a big glass of water, sleep it off, and come back to post when you're sober.

I am sober. Thank you for your concern.

 

[BlueMAB]

How many of you are UConn alumni? Just a question out of curiosity.

How many of you are piss drunk right now?

 

[Adios]

How many of you are piss drunk right now?

So piss drunk people who have nothing to do with a school academically like to hop on an athletic bandwagon a school creates? I rest my case. Thank you.