A case for football independence, Part II

[Adios]

Hopefully it isn't the AAC, at least as long as we are in it.

The AAC is the best of the "G5" schools. We had to pay our dues. That title last night cemented UConn's future. The "P5" will likely continue to poach the AAC the most out of any conference for future development.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Yes, it is for now..because it means throwing away the football program and any shot at being in a P5 conference all around. There may come a time when that changes. Hoops is fine for the foreseeable future.

If UCONN is, as we all (in our hubris) want to believe, the AAC raison d’être, why on earth would the conference or it's TV "partner" agree to a deal that allows it's number-one attraction to do it's own TV deal?

 

[Carl Spackler]

6th best league is an assumption.

In terms of downgrade it is a big one. We don't have an autobid to a "BCS" bowl. Whereas the Big East did. That alone puts us at a disadvantage in recruiting.

If you thought the Big East had a bad stigma, then just wait an see how that AAC stigma works out for football.

You are not all wrong here, but what you are describing is not necessarily true. It's all about recruiting. Establishing competition levels, in intercollegiate athletics is always entirely 100% about recruiting.

What the AAC needs to do, as a conference - what each individual program within the conference and the conference itself - needs to QUICKLY do - is establish a reputation as being competitive and go out and recruit like hell and sell itself. Perception = reality.

The reality is that the AAC is not conference USA, nor is it the Big East. It is a new conference, that needs to quickly establish it's own perception. Media needs to play a role in this - it always does for football. There will need to be a ton of promotion going on, with exposure - and then the programs got to compete and win, and sell themselves.

If....IF....when recruiting for football, that wall of perception can't be broken down when going after recruits - then what you talk about is a problem.

It is not yet a problem though. The other reality is that there is no reason, with the recruiting territories available to us - that we cannot pull enough players as a conference, to compete with and BEAT programs from the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ACC and Pac 12.

We need to take the lessons learned from the Big EAst around football, and not repeat the same mistakes. Perception.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If UCONN is, as we all (in our hubris) want to believe, the AAC raison d’être, why on earth would the conference or it's TV "partner" agree to a deal that allows it's number-one attraction to do it's own TV deal?

Who they hell knows...I never suggested that they would.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It is not a weak league, at all. Basketball programs should not have a problem developing. I expect schools such as ODU, UTSA and maybe UMass to pass through in the future. Believe it or not, ODU is top 50 in winning percentage in basketball. Hopefully, we'll be in a new league by then.

Football is similar, minus the BCS bowl tie-in as ZooCougar points out. It's slightly worse, but it occupies roughly similar spot in the pecking order to the Big East, although it may be closer to the revamped MWC (which improved). Basketball, compared to the Big East is a huge drop from the very best conference to this. The bottom half of the league is truly awful. It is a much, much, much worse basketball league.

The real critical thing here is that change is coming to FBS and D1 basketball. Some programs will be on the bus and others will be left behind. We have a little time, but we have to get on that bus. Being independent in football and playing hoops in the Big East (ACC would never give us the ND deal) means we get left off the bus. It's a death sentence. All we can do is strengthen our pitch to a P5 league.

 

[ZooCougar]

Football is similar, minus the BCS bowl tie-in as ZooCougar points out. It's slightly worse, but it occupies roughly similar spot in the pecking order to the Big East, although it may be closer to the revamped MWC (which improved). Basketball, compared to the Big East is a huge drop from the very best conference to this. The bottom half of the league is truly awful. It is a much, much, much worse basketball league.

The real critical thing here is that change is coming to FBS and D1 basketball. Some programs will be on the bus and others will be left behind. We have a little time, but we have to get on that bus. Being independent in football and playing hoops in the Big East (ACC would never give us the ND deal) means we get left off the bus. It's a death sentence. All we can do is strengthen our pitch to a P5 league.

College football is artificially stratified. And we are now on the wrong side of that stratification, the difference between the haves and have nots will be learnt by all of us in the next few seasons.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

College football is artificially stratified. And we are now on the wrong side of that stratification, the difference between the haves and have nots will be learnt by all of us in the next few seasons.

This is what baffles me about you. You agree with me that the AAC is a loser, but you don't want to do anything creative to get out of the AAC. The ACC and Big 10 are not inviting us as full members anytime soon. I think the Big East would take us, and I think we could at least have a discussion with the ACC about a basketball only membership to give them 16 teams for hoops. Both situations would increase our television revenue by over 100%. Or we could stay in an AAC that we all agree is doomed for failure.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Football is similar, minus the BCS bowl tie-in as ZooCougar points out. It's slightly worse, but it occupies roughly similar spot in the pecking order to the Big East, although it may be closer to the revamped MWC (which improved). Basketball, compared to the Big East is a huge drop from the very best conference to this. The bottom half of the league is truly awful. It is a much, much, much worse basketball league.

The real critical thing here is that change is coming to FBS and D1 basketball. Some programs will be on the bus and others will be left behind. We have a little time, but we have to get on that bus. Being independent in football and playing hoops in the Big East (ACC would never give us the ND deal) means we get left off the bus. It's a death sentence. All we can do is strengthen our pitch to a P5 league.

The fallacy in what you're saying about basketball is that the Big East - what it was - no longer exists. Comparing where we are at now, to the old big east doesn't work. YOu need to compare to what exists - we've earned equal tournament credits as the ACC. With no Big East on top anymore, the only basketball conference that has not elevated itself with that void - is the ACC. The AAC is on equal footing with the ACC when it comes to the NCAA tournament. That's got to really irk some people - but it's reality through the first season of existence. The other 'P5' conferences (I hate that - but it's quicker than typing them all) have all stepped up a bit in basketball because the Big East is no longer there, and the AAC with it's huge bridge top to bottom sits right there in the mix.

The AAC conference in basketball has a large divide between the top and bottom. But once again, establishing the actual level of competition in the sport in any intercollegiate sports (not the fan bases and revenue streams - actual competition level) is about RECRUITING. I think it's clear that the top of the AAC can compete with the best and win. I think that it's a travesty that SMU was kept out of this year's tournament, and UCONN is living proof what being snubbed can do for motivation. Watch out for SMU next year. Louisville is gone, and somebody will need to step up to fill their spot on the top of the standings. There are young coaches, and respected basketball people in this league.

UCONN basketball - without a doubt has done what needed to be done to help this conference grow, and what the guys did this spring, will help bridge that recruiting gap in the conference very quickly - as long as the coaches and adminstrations at each school are able and committed to do it. So far - it seems to be the case.

Football is a different story, but football, will be entering it's first true season as an AAC entity this fall. We'll have a lot more to go on in a year from now - but so far it's a good start. UCF represented well (on the field) - as did the rest of the programs already in and coming. (We sucked - but we'll change that)

Last year it was AAC in name only, operating under the last year of the Big East contracts.

 

[itgoeslike]

This thread is killing my buzz. . .

 

[Antiobserver]

So the football program can just drift in the wind? The TV money from an independent football program would be peanuts. Only 2 schools in the country can pull that off and they are Notre Dame and Texas to a lesser extent.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

And Nelson still avoids the scheduling issue as well as the bowl game issue.

 

[Carl Spackler]

College football is artificially stratified. And we are now on the wrong side of that stratification, the difference between the haves and have nots will be learnt by all of us in the next few seasons.

I agree that the perception of level of stratification of competition level in college football is artificial. It is because it is articifical that until proven otherwise, I'm going to take a glass half full look on this issue rather than your half empty look.

To date, for the AAC, our media revenue streams around sports are complete , but we're going to have exposure, and the opportunity to change that in the future - so as to approach the artificial stratifications of competition level, and we need to actually go through some recruiting cycles and seasons on the field to see where we actually stand in the real stratifications of competition level.

 

[ZooCougar]

This thread is killing my buzz. . .

Waylon has that effect.

 

[ZooCougar]

This is what baffles me about you. You agree with me that the AAC is a loser, but you don't want to do anything creative to get out of the AAC. The ACC and Big 10 are not inviting us as full members anytime soon. I think the Big East would take us, and I think we could at least have a discussion with the ACC about a basketball only membership to give them 16 teams for hoops. Both situations would increase our television revenue by over 100%. Or we could stay in an AAC that we all agree is doomed for failure.

How else do we fill the schedule? How do we get into bowls.

The AAC is the least worst option.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The fallacy in what you're saying about basketball is that the Big East - what it was - no longer exists. Comparing where we are at now, to the old big east doesn't work. YOu need to compare to what exists - we've earned equal tournament credits as the ACC. With no Big East on top anymore, the only basketball conference that has not elevated itself with that void - is the ACC. The AAC is on equal footing with the ACC when it comes to the NCAA tournament. That's got to really irk some people - but it's reality through the first season of existence. The other 'P5' conferences (I hate that - but it's quicker than typing them all) have all stepped up a bit in basketball because the Big East is no longer there, and the AAC with it's huge bridge top to bottom sits right there in the mix.

The AAC conference in basketball has a large divide between the top and bottom. But once again, establishing the actual level of competition in the sport in any intercollegiate sports (not the fan bases and revenue streams - actual competition level) is about RECRUITING. I think it's clear that the top of the AAC can compete with the best and win. I think that it's a travesty that SMU was kept out of this year's tournament, and UCONN is living proof what being snubbed can do for motivation. Watch out for SMU next year. Louisville is gone, and somebody will need to step up to fill their spot on the top of the standings. There are young coaches, and respected basketball people in this league.

UCONN basketball - without a doubt has done what needed to be done to help this conference grow, and what the guys did this spring, will help bridge that recruiting gap in the conference very quickly - as long as the coaches and adminstrations at each school are able and committed to do it. So far - it seems to be the case.

Football is a different story, but football, will be entering it's first true season as an AAC entity this fall. We'll have a lot more to go on in a year from now - but so far it's a good start. UCF represented well (on the field) - as did the rest of the programs already in and coming. (We sucked - but we'll change that)

Last year it was AAC in name only, operating under the last year of the Big East contracts.

Carl, you're great on football, but this is 1000 miles off on basketball. The ACC and AAC are very, very far apart. NCAA credits from one year are a meaningless measuring stick. The ACC has Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Virginia and even the lower tiered programs at NC State, GT, and Wake have had tremendous seasons over the years and most have won national championships. The AAC has UConn, Cinci and Memphis. The rest is flotsam and jetsam. The credit situation that occurred this year will never happen again. The AAC isn't even in the ballpark of the ACC, which has 4 of 10 from the recent list of 10 top programs. The AAC has one...UConn. Nobody else is even in the ballpark.

 

[Husky25]

And Nelson still avoids the scheduling issue as well as the bowl game issue.

Avoid vs. ignore. There really isn't as thin a line as one may think.

His only answer is that scheduling is easy and bowl games lose money. Of course he can't prove that scheduling is easy any more than you can definitively prove otherwise (Strawman). Presumably neither has, nor have ever, been an Athletic Director. And of course Bowls lose money for the individual schools. Of course this is correct, except for the fact that making gobs of money are not exactly their intent (Strawman #2).

To be perfectly honest, his perfect scenario actually came to fruition the last three years. UConn was allocated their share of bowl revenue from the Big East/AAC, but didn't have to expend any money themselves. Well guess what, If UConn goes independent, even that revenue stream vanishes. Independent teams don't have guaranteed bowl tie-ins and if an Independent has a losing record, there is no allocation at all.

 

[huskypantz]

Hold on a second. So Navy is joining the AAC in football ONLY. Why do we believe that the AAC wouldn't accept a UConn football-only arrangement? 40k stadium, NYC market. UConn in ACC for all sports except football, request scheduling agreement to play annual games against ACC teams, next team in guarantee. AAC for football with bowl berth availability and some cash from football. Shoot, we'll throw in home & homes with two AAC team per year (hello Memphis and Temple) while the arrangement is in place. The move guarantees us an extra 5 mil or so per year, plus ACC bball credits. Huge upgrade in schedules for all other sports. If you don't think this arrangement is better than current state you're nuts.

 

[Mr Blueskin]

Extremely annoying thread as usual...Stop bringing this crap up...not one P5 conference is going to take anyone unless its for all sports.

 

[okielite]

If UCONN is, as we all (in our hubris) want to believe, the AAC raison d’être, why on earth would the conference or it's TV "partner" agree to a deal that allows it's number-one attraction to do it's own TV deal?

See Boise St. That is exactly what happened in the MW when Boise flirted with the BE. Dont' say it 's impossible, it's already happened once. I think you could put Notre Dame in that category as well. The ACC was willing to make a special deal so ND would park the rest of it's sports in the ACC but have it's own TV deal. So actually it's happened twice already.

 

[okielite]

Extremely annoying thread as usual...Stop bringing this crap up...not one P5 conference is going to take anyone unless its for all sports.

Umm Notre Dame is a partial member of a power conference without football.

 

[okielite]

Avoid vs. ignore. There really isn't as thin a line as one may think.

His only answer is that scheduling is easy and bowl games lose money. Of course he can't prove that scheduling is easy any more than you can definitively prove otherwise (Strawman). Presumably neither has, nor have ever, been an Athletic Director. And of course Bowls lose money for the individual schools. Of course this is correct, except for the fact that making gobs of money are not exactly their intent (Strawman #2).

To be perfectly honest, his perfect scenario actually came to fruition the last three years. UConn was allocated their share of bowl revenue from the Big East/AAC, but didn't have to expend any money themselves. Well guess what, If UConn goes independent, even that revenue stream vanishes. Independent teams don't have guaranteed bowl tie-ins and if an Independent has a losing record, there is no allocation at all.

False. See Notre Dame and BYU.
http://college-football.si.com/2013/11/06/byu-play-poinsettia-bowl-2016-2018/
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/19544866

So you dont' thin UConn could make a deal to play in the Pinstripe bowl every year if they were eligible? I think it's at least a possibility. Nobody really wants that bowl because it's in NY and cold that time of year.

As far as the losing record, it doesn't matter if you are indy or in a conference, if you have a losing record you dont' go to a bowl. Not sure what your point was on that one.

 

[okielite]

Carl, you're great on football, but this is 1000 miles off on basketball. The ACC and AAC are very, very far apart. NCAA credits from one year are a meaningless measuring stick. The ACC has Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Virginia and even the lower tiered programs at NC State, GT, and Wake have had tremendous seasons over the years and most have won national championships. The AAC has UConn, Cinci and Memphis. The rest is flotsam and jetsam. The credit situation that occurred this year will never happen again. The AAC isn't even in the ballpark of the ACC, which has 4 of 10 from the recent list of 10 top programs. The AAC has one...UConn. Nobody else is even in the ballpark.

Houston has some BB history, Phi Slama Jama. Not to mention a Heisman and past FB success. SMU also has a Heisman and multiple NC's in FB. In the SWC they were both successful schools.

 

[Husky25]

Teams receive a share of aggregate net bowl proceeds. If a team is independent, that revenue stream is not available to them.

Football-wise, UConn is not Notre Dame or BYU.

 

[itgoeslike]

As far as the losing record, it doesn't matter if you are indy or in a conference, if you have a losing record you dont' go to a bowl. Not sure what your point was on that one.

Try to keep up. Schools within a conference, even if they have losing record, share in the contract bowl revenue collected by the conference. You obviously disagree with this statement or you didn't comprehend what he was saying.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl, you're great on football, but this is 1000 miles off on basketball. The ACC and AAC are very, very far apart. NCAA credits from one year are a meaningless measuring stick. The ACC has Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Virginia and even the lower tiered programs at NC State, GT, and Wake have had tremendous seasons over the years and most have won national championships. The AAC has UConn, Cinci and Memphis. The rest is flotsam and jetsam. The credit situation that occurred this year will never happen again. The AAC isn't even in the ballpark of the ACC, which has 4 of 10 from the recent list of 10 top programs. The AAC has one...UConn. Nobody else is even in the ballpark.

Look, I completely understand perception vs. reality. I understand sports and I know that I cna't break down a basketball game film for the life of me. Don't know the sport that way. But sports are sports, and building successful teams is bulding successful teams whether it be a football team, a unit within a football team, a basketball team, a department in a business structure or a military combat unit.

I do agree that one season does not make a trend, I've noted that before - when it comes to this year's tourney and how different conferences performed, but when you've only got one season of results to look at, you don't ignore them because it's only one season. The Big East left a huge void at the top when it comes to teh tourney. The Big 10, Pac 12, Big 12 and SEC all took a step up to fill the void. The AAC and ACC are basickally on the same ground through one men's b-ball post season of existence. How do you know it's fluke? You don't. Just like I don't know if it will continue or not - it's prediction from this point on. Here's mine:

I honestly don't give a crap about what happened last season - or years before. It's about what are you going to do now? I don't know alot about hoops except I love watching the Huskies win. What I do understand about basketball is that making money, and parity and opportunity in the basketball post season is determined by committee, and the AAC as a basketball conference when it comes to what are you going to do now, moving forward, the only true weak spot, is our representation in that kind of committee decision making. I don't care about the traditions of all those basketball programs. Their past. It's about moving forward, and I believe that all the pieces are in place, for this new conference to build and be successful. It's a matter of going out and doing it now. I believe that.

I also would rather be doing it with a new team(conference) arrangment that involved PSU, Maryland, UNiverstiy of New Jersey and the rest of the Big 10, but that's not reality.