Watched 2014 F8 MSU at MSG game today

[upstater]

I'm not sure we can say the coaching, even with Miller and Hobbs, was a whole lot different.

The offense looked largely the same as today's. Same ideas at work. The team also shot poorly, especially from 3. Giffey had a nightmare game.

The differences:

1. Better players (Napier/Boatright/Daniels > Adams/Larrier/Vital)
2. Better dribbling (5 turnovers in 1st half for UConn even fewer in 2nd) means the team can get to any spot in the lane.
3. Better dribbling also meant the guards got to the line a lot (21 free throws hit).
4. Shabazz took very difficult shots and hit them when needed, especially from 3.
5. Poise: they fell down by 10 in the 2nd half and didn't panic. They calmly did their thing.
6. MOST IMPORTANT: defense from the guards stopped the other team from getting into their offense.

The same:
1. Offense
2. Lack of rebounding (the bigs, Nolan, Brimah, Olander, were no better than our bigs lately)
3. Outside shooting woes
4. Gave up a slew of 3s
5. Transition defense was awful, almost always lost their man.

It really is eye-opening to go back and watch them from 2014. It explains a lot about why this team is suffering. Ball handling and poise are two huge factors.

 

[UChusky916]

I still watch those games just to remember the good ole days. U-C-O-N-N chant gives me chills in the 2nd half run. Thanks @tcf15!

 

[superjohn]

We had the best player in the country, he was a senior point guard and also the most clutch player in recent memory. We had another guy in the backcourt who was the best perimeter defender in the country, could run the point, could create his own shot out of nothing and could always get to wherever he wanted just like Napier. Daniels emerged as a third star who was a mismatch and pretty much unguardable once he found his groove. The offense was still the same iso stuff we see now but we had the two best players in the nation in under 5 on the shot clock situations.

They also caught lightning in a bottle.

 

[nomar]

I was there. Electric.

Can't say I disagree with your take.

Yes on #6. Our interior defense was incredible not because of Brimah, but because our defense 35 feet from the hoop was incredible.

 

[Guapo]

I was there. Electric.

Can't say I disagree with your take.

Yes on #6. Our interior defense was incredible not because of Brimah, but because our defense 35 feet from the hoop was incredible.

Boatwright's on the ball defense.

Beautiful.

 

[3rdbass]

Also, we had an inside option to keep offenses from smothering our guards in Daniels. We at least had Facey in some games last year which helped. Unfortunately facey wasn’t as good as a Daniels. This year we have nobody inside and it shows when our guards are getting crowded outside. Our big men are the worst collection in a long time. It is really is a shame on what we put on the courst up front including larrier who is more perimeter oriented even though he plays the 4 at times.

 

[Storrs South]

I'm not sure we can say the coaching, even with Miller and Hobbs, was a whole lot different.

The offense looked largely the same as today's. Same ideas at work. The team also shot poorly, especially from 3. Giffey had a nightmare game.

The differences:

1. Better players (Napier/Boatright/Daniels > Adams/Larrier/Vital)
2. Better dribbling (5 turnovers in 1st half for UConn even fewer in 2nd) means the team can get to any spot in the lane.
3. Better dribbling also meant the guards got to the line a lot (21 free throws hit).
4. Shabazz took very difficult shots and hit them when needed, especially from 3.
5. Poise: they fell down by 10 in the 2nd half and didn't panic. They calmly did their thing.
6. MOST IMPORTANT: defense from the guards stopped the other team from getting into their offense.

The same:
1. Offense
2. Lack of rebounding (the bigs, Nolan, Brimah, Olander, were no better than our bigs lately)
3. Outside shooting woes
4. Gave up a slew of 3s
5. Transition defense was awful, almost always lost their man.

It really is eye-opening to go back and watch them from 2014. It explains a lot about why this team is suffering. Ball handling and poise are two huge factors.

A pretty interesting evaluation. To point #1, we have started to see in conference play Jalen really elevate his game. Not Shabazz Napier 2014 National Championship run level but certainly to a level capable of making this offense go as we saw against UCF and Tulane. For Vital, he's got that swagger and confidence that Boatright had, the difference being that he doesn't have nearly as good of a handle and can't create his own shot but is good when shooting within the flow of the offense; also not as good of a on ball defense (but few were/are). Larrier does a lot of the same things DeAndre did.

In other words, as we started to see before Larrier went down, this similar blueprint can work with this roster. The biggest thing will be for Adams to continue to elevate his game, Vital to only operate within the flow of the offense and not force things like we saw against Memphis, and for Larrier to keep doing what he's been doing but also get healthy.

The defense also has to get better from the guards and Antwoine Anderson needs to find a little Terrance Samuel from within himself. If I'm Antwoine I stopped taking any outside shots unless 100% open and try to dribble drive to either kick to someone on the perimeter or draw the foul and hit the FTs.

If they play like they did against UCF/Tulane (which requires Adams/Vital/Larrier play all 40 minutes more or less), they can be a top 60-70 team which is semi-respectable. When 1 of those 3 goes down or doesn't play well, this is a team around #150 which is not good considering how much is invested in the program and the head coach.

 

[3rdbass]

A pretty interesting evaluation. To point #1, we have started to see in conference play Jalen really elevate his game. Not Shabazz Napier 2014 National Championship run level but certainly to a level capable of making this offense go as we saw against UCF and Tulane. For Vital, he's got that swagger and confidence that Boatright had, the difference being that he doesn't have nearly as good of a handle and can't create his own shot but is good when shooting within the flow of the offense; also not as good of a on ball defense (but few were/are). Larrier does a lot of the same things DeAndre did.

In other words, as we started to see before Larrier went down, this similar blueprint can work with this roster. The biggest thing will be for Adams to continue to elevate his game, Vital to only operate within the flow of the offense and not force things like we saw against Memphis, and for Larrier to keep doing what he's been doing but also get healthy.

The defense also has to get better from the guards and Antwoine Anderson needs to find a little Terrance Samuel from within himself. If I'm Antwoine I stopped taking any outside shots unless 100% open and try to dribble drive to either kick to someone on the perimeter or draw the foul and hit the FTs.

If they play like they did against UCF/Tulane (which requires Adams/Vital/Larrier play all 40 minutes more or less), they can be a top 60-70 team which is semi-respectable. When 1 of those 3 goes down or doesn't play well, this is a team around #150 which is not good considering how much is invested in the program and the head coach.

Larrier isn’t a post scorer that Daniels was and definitely doesn’t play as good defense down low. Daniels had some awesome blocks his junior year.

 

[UConnJim]

Upstater, yes the top 3 players in 2014 were better than today's, but the core of the 2014 team had played together for 3 seasons: Daniels, Giffey, Olander, Boatright, and Napier. Nolan and Calhoun had played with the team for 2 years. This year's team has 2 players that are now on their second season playing together. Huge difference.

Also, the 2014 team had Giffey who shot lights out that year hitting 48.3% of his 3s. UConn sure could use that this year!

 

[Storrs South]

Larrier isn’t a post scorer that Daniels was and definitely doesn’t play as good defense down low. Daniels had some awesome blocks his junior year.

Agreed not the post scorer, nor does he have the same explosion post ACL injury. But he does have a better midrange jumper; it was more an approximation when comparing the two. They both offer inside/outsider versatility to create mismatches; that's my key point.

 

[Storrs South]

Also, the 2014 team had Giffey who shot lights out that year hitting 48.3% of his 3s. UConn sure could use that this year!

A UConn MBB record by the way. Larrier is shooting 40% so that's helpful, the problem is that after him no one with a decent sample size is shooting better than 31% from 3. If Adams/Vital were up around 35% where they were last year, UConn would probably have 1-2 more wins than they do currently.

 

[Kitaman]

Add Bazz as a Coach to that staff.

We had a 5* floor general named Patton Bazz, partnered with the best 5'8" fighter/boxer/warrior this school has ever seen. Two small sticks of dynamite, they were.

They reminded me of that saying:

'It ain't the size of the Husky in the fight but the size of the fight in the Husky.'

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I was just looking at that team’s stats recently. We had 4 dudes shooting close to or over 40% from 3. Kromah was right there at like 35 too. Let’s not forget Kenyan Facey shot an immortal 67% ( on 2/3 shooting). Giffey shot nearly 50% on 3 attempts a game. That is positively insane. If Jalen had that type of supporting cast we wouldn’t lose a game.

 

[VAHuskyFan]

This thread hits on what I think is a huge issue for us right now. KO’s offensive philosophy requires an incredibly high level of talent and poise to work. It worked in 2014 because we had two guards who were otherworldly, and Giffey who shot the lights out from 3.

It was hero-ball then, but we had heroes to make it work. Napier was basically Superman the whole tournament.

What we have now is hero-ball with several players who are merely good to very good, and the result is a mess.

KO needs elite players to win, and he needs to win to attract elite players. My fear is that after two losing seasons, that challenge is turning into a Catch-22.

We either need to (1) somehow bring in guys who can PLAY like Bazz and Boat or (2) ditch the NBA philosophy and switch to an offense that creates open looks through sets and ball movement. I don’t think (1) is happening, at least in the near term, and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that (2) is on the table with KO.

 

[superjohn]

This thread hits on what I think is a huge issue for us right now. KO’s offensive philosophy requires an incredibly high level of talent and poise to work. It worked in 2014 because we had two guards who were otherworldly, and Giffey who shot the lights out from 3.

It was hero-ball then, but we had heroes to make it work. Napier was basically Superman the whole tournament.

What we have now is hero-ball with several players who are merely good to very good, and the result is a mess.

KO needs elite players to win, and he needs to win to attract elite players. My fear is that after two losing seasons, that challenge is turning into a Catch-22.

We either need to (1) somehow bring in guys who can PLAY like Bazz and Boat or (2) ditch the NBA philosophy and switch to an offense that creates open looks through sets and ball movement. I don’t think (1) is happening, at least in the near term, and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that (2) is on the table with KO.

Bingo. It's why he's considered the easiest coach to scout against. You know exactly what you're getting every single time. He has zero adaptability.

 

[BUConn10]

Our entire starting 5 in that game was far superior than their current counterpart at the same spot in today's starters. In addition we don't have a single guy who offers the value minutes we got from guys like Brimah and Kromah.

And before we start... yes, Nolan is a better basketball player than our current starting 5? The fact that he could set a competent screen makes him an all-star in this roster.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Outside shooting woes in 2014???

 

[VAHuskyFan]

Outside shooting woes in 2014???

The MSU game specifically. Giffey couldn’t hit the side of a barn in that game and Boat was pretty bad from 3 as well. They were pretty damn good the rest of the year though.

 

[Rewster]

This thread hits on what I think is a huge issue for us right now. KO’s offensive philosophy requires an incredibly high level of talent and poise to work. It worked in 2014 because we had two guards who were otherworldly, and Giffey who shot the lights out from 3.

It was hero-ball then, but we had heroes to make it work. Napier was basically Superman the whole tournament.

What we have now is hero-ball with several players who are merely good to very good, and the result is a mess.

KO needs elite players to win, and he needs to win to attract elite players. My fear is that after two losing seasons, that challenge is turning into a Catch-22.

We either need to (1) somehow bring in guys who can PLAY like Bazz and Boat or (2) ditch the NBA philosophy and switch to an offense that creates open looks through sets and ball movement. I don’t think (1) is happening, at least in the near term, and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that (2) is on the table with KO.

Spot on.

 

[djct1999]

That team won on one thing.....to quote Dana O'Neill "the nastiest on ball defense this tournament had ever seen." Boat and Bazz were insane. (Damn, I miss those guys!)

I too was lucky enough to be there. The UConn chants started in the street and ended back at grand central. Hands down, my best experience as a fan in any sport.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The MSU game specifically. Giffey couldn’t hit the side of a barn in that game and Boat was pretty bad from 3 as well. They were pretty damn good the rest of the year though.

Oh okay, thanks. Was confused for a second haha.

 

[msgordon]

that team had incredibly high iq and lots of experience. 5 upperclassmen leading us in minutes. the pieces also fit together . daniels and giffey were perfect secondary options next to ball dominant guards. zero weak spots on defense allowed us to get through slow stretches and made it hard for anyone to pull away from us (except louisville of course). and then we had the isolation play and ft% to finish close games

 

[upstater]

Also, we had an inside option to keep offenses from smothering our guards in Daniels. We at least had Facey in some games last year which helped. Unfortunately facey wasn’t as good as a Daniels. This year we have nobody inside and it shows when our guards are getting crowded outside. Our big men are the worst collection in a long time. It is really is a shame on what we put on the courst up front including larrier who is more perimeter oriented even though he plays the 4 at times.

All I can tell you is that Nolan and freshman Brimah were the only ones inside for that 2014 game, and the ball hardly ever went in there. It was a carbon copy of this year's offense. I have to say, I was very surprised, because I remembered it being a much smoother offense. The reason I probably remember it like that is because Boat and Bazz could hit more shots, and they weren't getting the ball stripped, and they could get to more spots on the court.

 

[upstater]

Bingo. It's why he's considered the easiest coach to scout against. You know exactly what you're getting every single time. He has zero adaptability.

On the other hand, it looked like our competition wasn't used to playing against teams like that. Easy to scout, but the players aren't used to defending it. When the players can hit shots that is.

 

[upstater]

Outside shooting woes in 2014???

I was talking about this game.

They shot 34% from the floor, 22% from 3.

Niels and Boatright were a combined 1-10 from 3. Trust me, it was ugly. They couldn't hit a shot.

They shot 96% from the free throw line. 21 of 22.