Top 5 coaches of all time. Calhoun in or out?

[gtcam]

Calhoun is definitely in. Nobody built a program like him.

I remember the 04 season when they faced Duke in the Final 4, Coach K had more McD All-Americans on his team than Calhoun had recruited to UConn in his career at that point. Calhoun was great at finding under the radar talent and squeezing everything out of them.

Please remember - Coach K built Duke also - I am far from a fan of K but you have to be fair
I place him and JC on the same level BUT put JC a step ahead because JC did it in a shorter time period and with less overall talent.
If K deserves to be in the top 5 then JC is there because he is a step ahead

 

[bendm]

in

 

[ColchVEGAS]

Please remember - Coach K built Duke also - I am far from a fan of K but you have to be fair
I place him and JC on the same level BUT put JC a step ahead because JC did it in a shorter time period and with less overall talent.
If K deserves to be in the top 5 then JC is there because he is a step ahead

Nothing against Coach K at all he is for sure in the top 5 as well. Just pointing out that he typically has superior talent.

 

[David 76]

Did UCLA cheat or did they do things that were not yet illegal?

 

[David 76]

Oh,and Calhoun is in.

And Calhoun and K seem to have mutual respect.

 

[uconnbill]

Coach Calhoun did more with less than any of those coaches. He has to be in. I would say third but I am bias and admit it

 

[David 76]

Coach Calhoun did more with less than any of those coaches. He has to be in. I would say third but I am bias and admit it

Bill,
Who would you put ahead of JC?
I would put Wooden and K there. I love Dean Smith the person, but his game day coaching doesn't inspire.

 

[the Q]

Please remember - Coach K built Duke also - I am far from a fan of K but you have to be fair
I place him and JC on the same level BUT put JC a step ahead because JC did it in a shorter time period and with less overall talent.
If K deserves to be in the top 5 then JC is there because he is a step ahead

Duke wasn’t close to this job though in terms of difficulty or pedigree.

K’s first year he has players on the roster who played in a final four and an elite 8.


What he did very well was leverage the power of duke’s academics in a way that Stanford and Vanderbilt have never been able to.

I don’t know if that’s on the other schools administrations or not, because considering the success of the baseball programs at those schools I’m thinking it’s less than clear.

 

[Umami Zen]

Serious question.. Not doubting anyone's answer.. What was it about Wooden's program that would suggest he was cheating or running a questionable program?? Leveraging boosters/alumni??

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Wooden
K
Rupp
Smith
Knight
Roy
Calhoun

These seem to be the names that are pretty much in the debate. I find it interesting that Calhoun is just 14 wins away from passing Bobby Knight for #3 on the all time wins list which im assuming he will get this upcoming season with St. Joes. The stats support him being top already but that problably clinches it. I say hes top 5 along with Wooden, K, Rupp and Knight.

1) Wooden - yes he was a huge cheater and the weird way the NCAA tournament was set up back then meant he didn't have to play anyone before the Final Four, but 10 titles is 10 titles.

2) Calhoun - 3 + part of another title at a program that might as well not have existed before he got there. Probably the best player development coach in history.

3) Coach K - Results speak for themselves.



Williams - I am not sure Williams is even the 4th best coach in history. He isn't bad, but there are probably 20 coaches that could have had a similar run if they inherited two of the bluest blue bloods in history.

Jay Wright - One more championship and he joins the pantheon. His run at Villanova has been amazing.


Hard Pass:

Adolph Rupp - never won a championship after college basketball got integrated, and the championships he did win were when the NIT was a credible competitor to the NCAA Tournament so he wasn't facing the best teams. And those issues are before we get to the racism or just general $#%holeness.

Bob Knight - good coach, but the fact that he was such a raging $#%hole killed his recruiting. I will give him a ton of credit for the 1987 title, because top recruits didn't want to play for him after the early 80's.

Dean Smith - just a bad game coach.

 

[Umami Zen]

Please remember - Coach K built Duke also - I am far from a fan of K but you have to be fair
I place him and JC on the same level BUT put JC a step ahead because JC did it in a shorter time period and with less overall talent.
If K deserves to be in the top 5 then JC is there because he is a step ahead

K did build Duke's program.. The "resources" he had available to him for that task were dramatically different than those available at UConn for JC... Nevertheless.. They were both excellent coaches and maximized the talent they had assembled on their rosters..

 

[JohnFSilver]

1) Wooden - yes he was a huge cheater and the weird way the NCAA tournament was set up back then meant he didn't have to play anyone before the Final Four, but 10 titles is 10 titles.

2) Calhoun - 3 + part of another title at a program that might as well not have existed before he got there. Probably the best player development coach in history.

3) Coach K - Results speak for themselves.



Williams - I am not sure Williams is even the 4th best coach in history. He isn't bad, but there are probably 20 coaches that could have had a similar run if they inherited two of the bluest blue bloods in history.

Jay Wright - One more championship and he joins the pantheon. His run at Villanova has been amazing.


Hard Pass:

Adolph Rupp - never won a championship after college basketball got integrated, and the championships he did win were when the NIT was a credible competitor to the NCAA Tournament so he wasn't facing the best teams. And those issues are before we get to the racism or just general $#%holeness.

Bob Knight - good coach, but the fact that he was such a raging $#%hole killed his recruiting. I will give him a ton of credit for the 1987 title, because top recruits didn't want to play for him after the early 80's.

Dean Smith - just a bad game coach.

I like Bob Knight with Xs and Os.

He is a terrific coach and won 2 titles. Knight also is one of the more influential coaches of all time. He was relentless teacher and camp guy.

Think about his impact from high school to college. Knight was a big camp teacher and so many coaches learned motion offense from him -- in lieu of post play -- and also the relentless need for perfect defense and no turnovers. Why do basketball coaches go nuts over a turnover? It's basketball, it happens.

Knight slowed down the game because he won with defense, execution and no turnovers. Wooden? He would play the game fast.

College basketball is still coming out of this slowdown, defense, no turnovers mindset.

Me? I am a fan of uptempo and getting more shots up. Turnovers are acceptable as a cost of increased pace. The more talented team should always increase the pace so it gets more shots to show it is better than the opponent. It's why, rarely, do big upsets happen in high scoring games.

Edit: There is a story about Knight's impact on a generation of coaches. I wish I could find it. good read where it went over a lot of the above.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I like Bob Knight with Xs and Os.

He is a terrific coach and won 2 titles. Knight also is one of the more influential coaches of all time. He was relentless teacher and camp guy.

Think about his impact from high school to college. Knight was a big camp teacher and so many coaches learned motion offense from him -- in lieu of post play -- and also the relentless need for perfect defense and no turnovers. Why do basketball coaches go nuts over a turnover? It's basketball, it happens.

Knight slowed down the game because he won with defense, execution and no turnovers. Wooden? He would play the game fast.

College basketball is still coming out of this slowdown, defense, no turnovers mindset.

Me? I am a fan of uptempo and getting more shots up. Turnovers are acceptable as a cost of increased pace. The more talented team should always increase the pace so it gets more shots to show it is better than the opponent. It's why, rarely, do big upsets happen in high scoring games.

There was an interview of Calhoun during the KEA era that always stuck with me. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that he could live with a turnover if it happened while trying to get a high percentage shot. He was talking about pushing the tempo to get dunks and layups, and I agree 100%, and adopted that approach when I coached AAU and youth. It is hard to score against a setup defense at any level, which is why transition baskets are so important.

Calhoun's press was as much about offense as it was about defense. Steals create easy baskets, so Calhoun wanted to create more steals, especially in the early days at UConn when the overall talent level wasn't great. Other coaches like Tom Davis had the same approach, which I agree with.

 

[superjohn]

I like Bob Knight with Xs and Os.

He is a terrific coach and won 2 titles. Knight also is one of the more influential coaches of all time. He was relentless teacher and camp guy.

Think about his impact from high school to college. Knight was a big camp teacher and so many coaches learned motion offense from him -- in lieu of post play -- and also the relentless need for perfect defense and no turnovers. Why do basketball coaches go nuts over a turnover? It's basketball, it happens.

Knight slowed down the game because he won with defense, execution and no turnovers. Wooden? He would play the game fast.

College basketball is still coming out of this slowdown, defense, no turnovers mindset.

Me? I am a fan of uptempo and getting more shots up. Turnovers are acceptable as a cost of increased pace. The more talented team should always increase the pace so it gets more shots to show it is better than the opponent. It's why, rarely, do big upsets happen in high scoring games.

Edit: There is a story about Knight's impact on a generation of coaches. I wish I could find it. good read where it went over a lot of the above.

Bobby Knight won 3 titles.

 

[Umami Zen]

There was an interview of Calhoun during the KEA era that always stuck with me. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that he could live with a turnover if it happened while trying to get a high percentage shot. He was talking about pushing the tempo to get dunks and layups, and I agree 100%, and adopted that approach when I coached AAU and youth. It is hard to score against a setup defense at any level, which is why transition baskets are so important.

Calhoun's press was as much about offense as it was about defense. Steals create easy baskets, so Calhoun wanted to create more steals, especially in the early days at UConn when the overall talent level wasn't great. Other coaches like Tom Davis had the same approach, which I agree with.

Agree with this coaching philosophy.. As talented as our PGs have been over the years.. Always enjoyed Nadav playing Point Forward ..Starting the break with his precise down court passing to teammates for the easy buckets.. BTW..Looks like DH finally has a roster that could implement this strategy very effectively.. 2020 team has the athleticism to be an excellent pressing/fast break team..

 

[Ewekon]

With admitted bias, Who do I want coaching my team in the last 10 minutes of a see saw game that has such variables as foul management, possible fatigue issues, one on one matchups, pace of game/clock management?

I take JC. A number of CBB talking heads agree. And ask just K.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

With admitted bias, Who do I want coaching my team in the last 10 minutes of a see saw game that has such variables as foul management, possible fatigue issues, one on one matchups, pace of game/clock management?

I take JC. A number of CBB talking heads agree. And ask just K.

I wouldn't say Calhoun is the greatest game coach of all time. He is very good, but I think there are better coaches in a 2 point game with 10 minutes left.

If I had to pick any coach on that list in their mid 40's to build a program, Calhoun is the easy choice.

 

[businesslawyer]

Serious question.. Not doubting anyone's answer.. What was it about Wooden's program that would suggest he was cheating or running a questionable program?? Leveraging boosters/alumni??

UCLA's boosters provided all sorts of benefits to Wooden's recruits that were not within NCAA rules. That has been shown over time. Not clear how much Wooden participated in it, but he was playing with a stacked deck.

 

[borninansonia]

UCLA's boosters provided all sorts of benefits to Wooden's recruits that were not within NCAA rules. That has been shown over time. Not clear how much Wooden participated in it, but he was playing with a stacked deck.

Yes, but John Wooden produced great basketball players who were, for the most part, good, hard working people. Kareen is the perfect example. So is Bill Walton, even though many do not like him announcing games. The only exceptions I can think of were Sidney Rowe and one other player whose name I can't come up with, Wicks?, who were not well-behaved professional players.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Bobby Knight won 3 titles.

Forgot. Isaiah Thomas team, right?

 

[JohnFSilver]

There was an interview of Calhoun during the KEA era that always stuck with me. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that he could live with a turnover if it happened while trying to get a high percentage shot. He was talking about pushing the tempo to get dunks and layups, and I agree 100%, and adopted that approach when I coached AAU and youth. It is hard to score against a setup defense at any level, which is why transition baskets are so important.

Calhoun's press was as much about offense as it was about defense. Steals create easy baskets, so Calhoun wanted to create more steals, especially in the early days at UConn when the overall talent level wasn't great. Other coaches like Tom Davis had the same approach, which I agree with.

I think we are all disciples of Calhoun. I like players who run fast and get up and down. I also like tenacious individual defenders who are tough and have a high motor.

 

[JohnFSilver]

BTW, as an aside, Dan Hurley a really good in-game coach.

 

[SubbaBub]

Surprised some national media troll didn’t come on here and mention Izzo. They love Izzo, and he has 1 title and I just

Anyhow,

let’s do coaches and eliminate wooden and Rupp and James Naismith and Fogg. Different eras.

Let’s take the mid 1970s on. Starts with Bob Knight, dean smith, boeheim, Coach K, Calhoun...

I can make Calhoun a top 5 case. He is certainly had the most difficult job of all.

roy Williams majorly overrated for me .

Underrated?
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Feel better about Donovan if he had more longevity. Feel better about Wright if he did anything before the heavy hitters in the BE left town. Both are HoF college coaches, Top 5 might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[superjohn]

Surprised some national media troll didn’t come on here and mention Izzo. They love Izzo, and he has 1 title and I just

Anyhow,

let’s do coaches and eliminate wooden and Rupp and James Naismith and Fogg. Different eras.

Let’s take the mid 1970s on. Starts with Bob Knight, dean smith, boeheim, Coach K, Calhoun...

I can make Calhoun a top 5 case. He is certainly had the most difficult job of all.

roy Williams majorly overrated for me .

Underrated?
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Bulls signed Billy Donovan, love the hire.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Bulls signed Billy Donovan, love the hire.

Me too. Surprised he wasn't the Sixers' guy. Really good coach in the NBA and NCAA.