Top 20 performers in first two tournament games

[HuskyNan]

 

[JonathanXIV]

Watching the tournament, with an eye to the Paige-Caitlin comparison. Putting aside the bid differences on the defensive end, I think the offensive comparison between the two players is really interesting. Particularly their shot selection and how they score their point, which is evident in the stats above.

Caitlin is the embodiment of the analytics approach, which is to only shoot 3's and close to the basket (with a focus on drawing fouls), avoiding mid-range shots. During one of her games the network put out her shot chart for the season. It's a ring around the arc and a cluster of shots near the basket. As for Paige, anyone who has watched her play is aware of her very impressive mid-range game. She specializes in shots in the 10-17 foot range, often pulling up after one or two dribbles to get off her shot. And she is incredibly efficient with these shots, as opposed to most players. It's a little old school and beautiful to watch.

The numbers after two tournament games supports this observation. They have basically scored the same amount of points, with a similar number of shots, but Paige has 50% more baskets (and a corresponding much higher FG percentage), but Caitlin has shot over twice as many 3's (making a similar percentage as Paige) and taken over twice as many free throws.

I'll pass on making any determination on which approach is preferable. But, to me, so much of the discussion and comparisons of these two players misses the very different approaches they take on the offensive end.

 

[Kaizen]

Paige is way up as the #1 ...

 

[EasyEd]

Nice to see Ashlynn on the list

 

[Longtime fan]

Nice to see Ashlynn on the list

And her current ranking is above some pretty big names. Not sure it means much. We can see she is playing well.

 

[Stinger92860]

Another plus for Paige is her smile(s) on the court. She looks like she is having fun much of the time.

 

[Bone Dog]

I don't know exactly what sort of compilation C-Ram is. Anyone have a quick explanation?

As for the midrange game and why it may deserve to be revived by more coaches, it's about forcing a defender to commit. At the perimeter, if you're a 3-pt threat, they have to guard you close and you have an advantage in getting past them. Then in the midrange, the same calculation applies: either the defender challenges the shot or tries to prevent the drive to the rim. If you only shoot 3s or drive to the rim, you are more likely to force more fouls but also less likely to score directly. Paige and Azzi and Ash use the midrange to get a score and dispense with hunting for fouls. I think Geno prefers this since the free throws break the flow of the game and lets the opponent catch their breath. UConn goes on scoring runs in part because they encourage the midrange jumper.

 

[huskeynut]

When Rip Hamilton played for UConn, he became the master of the mid-range jumper. It had already become a lost in the men's game at that time. Rip was always in constant motion and got loose for those 15 to 17 footers. It was also his trademark in the NBA.

Moving ahead to the present, the women's game went the way of shooting the 3 over the mid-range game. Caitlin Clark is the prime example of emphasizing the 3. And she is probably the best ever at the 3 point shot. Now we have Paige and Ash bringing back the art of the mid-range jumper. The way UConn moves on offense, that mid-range shot will always be there. And it is a deadly weapon.

 

[fomalhaut]

Caitlin Clark is the prime example of emphasizing the 3. And she is probably the best ever at the 3 point shot.

She's shooting about 38%, not even in the top 50 in the country. She shoots way more than anyone else, and has a longer effective range, but her percentage is nowhere close to the best.

 

[omshanti]

The mid range shots are also a high percentage shot. A lay up is also a higher percentage shot. You can live or die by the three pointer. Paige is a great offensive threat because she has it all. She takes good shots, or I ought to say the ‘right’ shots at the right time. Paige is the master at the mid range. That picks apart zone defenses. In all this talk about analytics, the higher percentage shot is a picture of Paige, not a logo three.

 

[ochoopsfan]

I don't know exactly what sort of compilation C-Ram is. Anyone have a quick explanation?

As for the midrange game and why it may deserve to be revived by more coaches, it's about forcing a defender to commit. At the perimeter, if you're a 3-pt threat, they have to guard you close and you have an advantage in getting past them. Then in the midrange, the same calculation applies: either the defender challenges the shot or tries to prevent the drive to the rim. If you only shoot 3s or drive to the rim, you are more likely to force more fouls but also less likely to score directly. Paige and Azzi and Ash use the midrange to get a score and dispense with hunting for fouls. I think Geno prefers this since the free throws break the flow of the game and lets the opponent catch their breath. UConn goes on scoring runs in part because they encourage the midrange jumper.

Apparently this is from Cerebro Sports(A Mark Cuban Company)

A brief explanation is on their website

What Is C-RAM?​

The C-RAM derives the strength of a player’s performance relative to an average performer in the same event.

The C-RAM acts as the universal yardstick, allowing cross-event comparison

you can read more on the company, and create your own FREE account, for stats, at

Cerebro Sports | About

Cerebro Sports revolutionizes basketball recruiting with advanced player analytics

www.cerebrosports.com

 

[MSGRET]

When Rip Hamilton played for UConn, he became the master of the mid-range jumper. It had already become a lost in the men's game at that time. Rip was always in constant motion and got loose for those 15 to 17 footers. It was also his trademark in the NBA.

Moving ahead to the present, the women's game went the way of shooting the 3 over the mid-range game. Caitlin Clark is the prime example of emphasizing the 3. And she is probably the best ever at the 3 point shot. Now we have Paige and Ash bringing back the art of the mid-range jumper. The way UConn moves on offense, that mid-range shot will always be there. And it is a deadly weapon.

I can name at least 3 former UConn players that were better than Caitlin Clark when it comes to 3pt shooting. KLS, KML and DT, their averages put CC to shame, if UConn plays Iowa I don't see Clark getting more than 20 points.

 

[BobbyJ]

When Rip Hamilton played for UConn, he became the master of the mid-range jumper. It had already become a lost in the men's game at that time. Rip was always in constant motion and got loose for those 15 to 17 footers. It was also his trademark in the NBA.

Moving ahead to the present, the women's game went the way of shooting the 3 over the mid-range game. Caitlin Clark is the prime example of emphasizing the 3. And she is probably the best ever at the 3 point shot. Now we have Paige and Ash bringing back the art of the mid-range jumper. The way UConn moves on offense, that mid-range shot will always be there. And it is a deadly weapon.

Whether from the line or 6 feet behind it, all 3s count the same. So how could Clark be the best ever at 38%? She just chucks more of them.

 

[pvdoggy]

I can name at least 3 former UConn players that were better than Caitlin Clark when it comes to 3pt shooting. KLS, KML and DT, their averages put CC to shame, if UConn plays Iowa I don't see Clark getting more than 20 points.

I would take that bet. As much as Clark has the ball in her hand and as many shots as she tends to take, it is almost a given that she will score more than 20 points whether she is effective or not.

 

[Stinger92860]

if UConn plays Iowa I don't see Clark getting more than 20 points.

I would be shocked if she scored 20 or less. She will take at least 25 shots in a game against us, not including free throws. She has taken 25 or more shots in 11 games this year. Back of the napkin, 6-15 from three, 4 of 10 from two, plus free throw’s. Thats 26 plus free throws. Will she score 26?, no idea, but I would take the player prop on 20+.

 

[maple]

When UConn & Iowa faced off back in November of 2022, Clark scored 25 points. She was 9-25 in FG, 2-11 in 3PT, and 5-7 in FT. I don't doubt that Clark would potentially get more than 20 points if UConn were to play them again, but I wonder if we could still hold her to the same shot %.

For the record, this was also a game where CD alone gave us 15 points off the bench and Iowa's bench alone only contributed 2 points.

 

[FanInNC]

Does this take any account for defense ?

 

[Pharos]

Does this take any account for defense ?

Iowa allowed an average of 68.5 points by their opponents. They don't seem to be a shut-down defense.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Does this take any account for defense ?

Go back to the link I provided in my previous post. Scroll down to the part that says "What is C-Ram"
Below that it lists, what is Ram? and What is 5MS?
In the 5MS part it mentions "Defensive Statistical Impact"

I am guessing Ram and 5MS are part of C-Ram. The explanation isn't the clearest.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Iowa allowed an average of 68.5 points by their opponents. They don't seem to be a shut-down defense.

Watch Iowa play. That do not play good defense, either individually or as a team. Clark, in particular, puts in very little effort on the defensive end, almost never going into a defensive stance.

 

[hussybulldog]

Some data doesn’t make any sense! How can 3pm/3pa be 0.3 after 2 games?

 

[fomalhaut]

I can name at least 3 former UConn players that were better than Caitlin Clark when it comes to 3pt shooting. KLS, KML and DT, their averages put CC to shame, if UConn plays Iowa I don't see Clark getting more than 20 points.

Yes! And don't forget Sue Bird, who might be the best of them all.

 

[HuskyNan]

Yes! And don't forget Sue Bird, who might be the best of them all.

 

[HuskyNan]

Kaleena’s stats were wow! considering how many shots she made. She was an automatic bucket from the perimeter

 

[Rowdy831]

Watching the tournament, with an eye to the Paige-Caitlin comparison. Putting aside the bid differences on the defensive end, I think the offensive comparison between the two players is really interesting. Particularly their shot selection and how they score their point, which is evident in the stats above.

Caitlin is the embodiment of the analytics approach, which is to only shoot 3's and close to the basket (with a focus on drawing fouls), avoiding mid-range shots. During one of her games the network put out her shot chart for the season. It's a ring around the arc and a cluster of shots near the basket. As for Paige, anyone who has watched her play is aware of her very impressive mid-range game. She specializes in shots in the 10-17 foot range, often pulling up after one or two dribbles to get off her shot. And she is incredibly efficient with these shots, as opposed to most players. It's a little old school and beautiful to watch.

The numbers after two tournament games supports this observation. They have basically scored the same amount of points, with a similar number of shots, but Paige has 50% more baskets (and a corresponding much higher FG percentage), but Caitlin has shot over twice as many 3's (making a similar percentage as Paige) and taken over twice as many free throws.

I'll pass on making any determination on which approach is preferable. But, to me, so much of the discussion and comparisons of these two players misses the very different approaches they take on the offensive end.

I agree with your assessment. My take on which is better depends on if the refs are calling the game close enough that you get enough foul shots of offset the misses around the basket. To me it seems like CC doesn't get nearly enough foul calls to justify taking the ball into the defense. The way modern BB is called I would take the Paige option of pulling up and taking a 10 footer.