Questions on NIL and a POI [?] of ours

[Blakeon18]

Juste Joycte's name has come up on occasion as a possible recruit...from Lithuania...16 years old...
she has been tagged by some as the best player of her age in the world.

Coco has mentioned that she could be in the class of 2023/2024/2025...no certainty.
She plays in a pro league but I believe she still has amateur standing. Certainly she will have pro options over there.

It seems to me that if she has NIL opportunities in the USA that might be a factor in deciding to come to play in college here...
whether that be UConn or anywhere else.

So: with 'reasonable certainty' [oxymoronish for sure].

Was she born in the USA? Some folks have suggested that is true...is it?
If she was born here, does that make her a USA citizen? That would make her eligible for
NIL revenue. If not a citizen then no NIL money.

If she is a dual citizen of the USA and Lithuania, does that make her eligible for the NIL?

As to what college she could conceivably attend? Well...I know one that gets a lot of pub/has a lot of sizzle and might be just the ticket that
NIL might find appealing...hey...they already have shown that with several of our favorites.

2023 recruiting is off to a great start...room for more greatness with POI's on both sides of the pond.

 

[From France]

With the "pioritization" rule in the WNBA now, I would be surprised to see Juste Jocyte go to NCAA, she better be paid in Europe.
A few years ago, just playing in the WNBA was an honor for europeans, now it's not anymore, winning the W is a great line in your career resume but playing in it NO MORE.

A player like the GOAT accepted a few years ago to forego the WNBA season as a contract with her russian team because they paid much more. What do you think will happen when that stupid rule works next year ?

If that ****ing rule is still in place in 2024, europeans will choose to stay here and many US will choose to go play overseas and be on hollidays when comes Summer knowing they won in 1 year at least 3 years of WNBA salary.

Does the WNBA want to suicide or be just a 144 american players league ?

On the other side, it would give draftees more chance to sign for an effective contract ...

Let's see what happens, I don't believe the W is on a good road

 

[awhom111]

Juste Joycte's name has come up on occasion as a possible recruit...from Lithuania...16 years old...
she has been tagged by some as the best player of her age in the world.

Coco has mentioned that she could be in the class of 2023/2024/2025...no certainty.
She plays in a pro league but I believe she still has amateur standing. Certainly she will have pro options over there.

It seems to me that if she has NIL opportunities in the USA that might be a factor in deciding to come to play in college here...
whether that be UConn or anywhere else.

So: with 'reasonable certainty' [oxymoronish for sure].

Was she born in the USA? Some folks have suggested that is true...is it?
If she was born here, does that make her a USA citizen? That would make her eligible for
NIL revenue. If not a citizen then no NIL money.

If she is a dual citizen of the USA and Lithuania, does that make her eligible for the NIL?

As to what college she could conceivably attend? Well...I know one that gets a lot of pub/has a lot of sizzle and might be just the ticket that
NIL might find appealing...hey...they already have shown that with several of our favorites.

2023 recruiting is off to a great start...room for more greatness with POI's on both sides of the pond.

Is she even the best player of her age on her team?


Multiple Lithuanian media outfits reported that she was born in Washington. Her father's work profiles at that time mentioned that he worked for the Lithuanian embassy to the United States during those years so it seems reasonable. Whether she is a citizen would depend on the exact of her father's employment and whether her mother was also employed there in the same classification.

One funny detail that I read that may or may not have a bearing on her future is that in one interview she indicated a less than enthusiatic attitude towards her education, but that she knew that Tony Parker required it as a condition of playing.

 

[Blakeon18]

awhom111: thanks for your input..maybe a baby step forward with regard to knowledge.

Regarding NIL: I have no idea what kind of money we are talking about....whether that be for Paige or Azzi or any
other college player. I haven't seen details...nor do I think we are entitled to that info. 3 figures...4...5...6?
No idea.

Regarding the higher salaries overseas: seems certainly true for high level players. I do think for those elites that winning a ring in China/Russia/Turkey or wherever you play has less sizzle/less impact in the USA than winning an WNBA title...or for that matter winning an NCAA ring [say on a high profile program]. I would think that the financial
opportunities in the United States might well be significant...mitigating a little/medium/a lot of the salary difference.

We'll see. I won't be giving up on nabbing Juste until we hear more from her and/or Geno.

Go Huskies!

 

[CL82]

If she is a dual citizen of the USA and Lithuania, does that make her eligible for the NIL?

Yes but she must be paid 50-50 in dollars and euros.

 

[CocoHusky]

With the "pioritization" rule in the WNBA now, I would be surprised to see Juste Jocyte go to NCAA, she better be paid in Europe.
A few years ago, just playing in the WNBA was an honor for europeans, now it's not anymore, winning the W is a great line in your career resume but playing in it NO MORE.

A player like the GOAT accepted a few years ago to forego the WNBA season as a contract with her russian team because they paid much more. What do you think will happen when that stupid rule works next year ?

If that ****ing rule is still in place in 2024, europeans will choose to stay here and many US will choose to go play overseas and be on hollidays when comes Summer knowing they won in 1 year at least 3 years of WNBA salary.

Does the WNBA want to suicide or be just a 144 american players league ?

On the other side, it would give draftees more chance to sign for an effective contract ...

Let's see what happens, I don't believe the W is on a good road

What do you mean by "prioritization" rule?

 

[CocoHusky]

Is she even the best player of her age on her team?

According to Premier Basketball she is and Dominique Malonga is 2nd behind her.

2023

premierbasketballreport.com

 

[ochoopsfan]

Paige Buecker$

 

[JordyG]

What do you mean by "prioritization" rule?

Section 9 of the CBA states that players must prioritize playing in the WNBA over all other leagues. What does that mean? In just a short time the league will make it punitive for players to report late to training camps. In the long run this favors American born players, and discourages players from foreign leagues willing to give up their lucrative paychecks to play in this country for 1/10 of what they're making in Europe. In the long run IMO, many American players will also choose not to play in the WNBA just to leave behind their biggest earning contracts. They'll just take the summer off to heal. Looks like the Women's Association, because of this CBA, will slowly strangle itself. But this is the price you pay when the WNBA is essentially a charity league, that has little viewership, little income, and is propped up by the largesse of the NBA. They're going to dictate the rules in order to determine its outcome, and save The Association as much money as it can in the long run.

 

[JordyG]

What do you mean by "prioritization" rule?

I don't think I was factually correct in some areas of my response. Yes, the NBA does own 50% of the WNBA. But this CBA was really initiated by the aggressive new investors who want their monies to mean equity in the long run. Many of their ideas about building equity seem well thought out. Section 9 however seems to me parochially short sighted.

 

[BobbyJ]

According to Premier Basketball she is and Dominique Malonga is 2nd behind her.

2023

premierbasketballreport.com

I would already be working the phones overtime to see if Ms. Malonga would be interested in a free education. BTW, did you see that Wikipedia lists Jocyte's height as 6-4? Doesn't look that close to Malonga at 6-6 does she?

 

[JordyG]

I would already be working the phones overtime to see if Ms. Malonga would be interested in a free education. BTW, did you see that Wikipedia lists Jocyte's height as 6-4? Doesn't look that close to Malonga at 6-6 does she?

I want 'em both. Is that too greedy, orr does the phrase "Greed is good" still apply

 

[BobbyJ]

I want 'em both. Is that too greedy, orr does the phrase "Greed is good" still apply

Same here, I'd find room for them.

 

[sun]

Section 9 however seems to me parochially short sighted.

It seems to show good business sense.
Europe doesn't have collegiate sports, and the US exports more talented players than it imports.
The rule would mostly affect the highest paid WNBA players since the lower tier players can be easily replaced if they opt out of the WNBA to play overseas.
It's a push & shove against the European leagues negatively impacting the WNBA which is trying to grow strong enough to become a solvent corporation.
Such a small percentage of NCAA talent is successful enough in the WNBA to help in that endeavor, to help promote the stability of the WNBA.
If those who want to play both leagues can't manage to prioritize the WNBA, then a financial penalty makes a lot of sense towards enforcing such a common sense contract provision.
The WNBA players should put Europe on hold, not the other way around if they want to show their commitment toward the US league and the entire network that develops players for export.
In part, college players are subsidized by taxpayers and the WNBA is subsidized by the profits of the NBA and US corporations.
If Europe didn't need American players then they wouldn't import and pay them as much.
That's just how the US free market works and exercises its influence.

 

[JordyG]

It seems to show good business sense.
Europe doesn't have collegiate sports, and the US exports more talented players than it imports.
The rule would mostly affect the highest paid WNBA players since the lower tier players can be easily replaced if they opt out of the WNBA to play overseas.
It's a push & shove against the European leagues negatively impacting the WNBA which is trying to grow strong enough to become a solvent corporation.
Such a small percentage of NCAA talent is successful enough in the WNBA to help in that endeavor, to help promote the stability of the WNBA.
If those who want to play both leagues can't manage to prioritize the WNBA, then a financial penalty makes a lot of sense towards enforcing such a common sense contract provision.
The WNBA players should put Europe on hold, not the other way around if they want to show their commitment toward the US league and the entire network that develops players for export.
In part, college players are subsidized by taxpayers and the WNBA is subsidized by the profits of the NBA and US corporations.
If Europe didn't need American players then they wouldn't import and pay them as much.
That's just how the US free market works and exercises its influence.

Yes, the rules would affect the higher tier players more than the lower tier. But the higher tier players are the stars and superstars of the WNBA. The higher tier players are the ones that fans come to see. Who then is the highest player in the WNBA? Diana Taurasi makes less than 300K a year. Why should she risk the 1.5 million she makes overseas for the 230K she makes in the US. Why should any of these top tier players leave their monied positions for lesser pay? Prestige? When Paige leaves UConn the best she can make on a rookie contract is 50K. Why even bother to play in the Association at all? What's the incentive for all of the best players to continue league play? Certainly, these new rules will encourage developement in lesser players. But the WNBA risks becoming a minor league system for the more lucrative foreign contracts.

 

[JordyG]

It seems to show good business sense.
Europe doesn't have collegiate sports, and the US exports more talented players than it imports.
The rule would mostly affect the highest paid WNBA players since the lower tier players can be easily replaced if they opt out of the WNBA to play overseas.
It's a push & shove against the European leagues negatively impacting the WNBA which is trying to grow strong enough to become a solvent corporation.
Such a small percentage of NCAA talent is successful enough in the WNBA to help in that endeavor, to help promote the stability of the WNBA.
If those who want to play both leagues can't manage to prioritize the WNBA, then a financial penalty makes a lot of sense towards enforcing such a common sense contract provision.
The WNBA players should put Europe on hold, not the other way around if they want to show their commitment toward the US league and the entire network that develops players for export.
In part, college players are subsidized by taxpayers and the WNBA is subsidized by the profits of the NBA and US corporations.
If Europe didn't need American players then they wouldn't import and pay them as much.
That's just how the US free market works and exercises its influence.

Let's take it further. When the best players ultimately refuse to leave their foreign teams, effectively breaking their contracts, or the better players that are now in college refuse to live on 50K a year when foreign teams offer 10 times as much, how will the teams in this country grow their fanbase? The only way is to draft talent from local colleges and hope their fans migrate to the league. But what if the say, Chicago has the first pick and the best player available is from California. Then what? Will the owners and the NBA collude to position that player into a local market?

 

[sun]

Diana Taurasi makes less than 300K a year. Why should she risk the 1.5 million she makes overseas for the 230K she makes in the US. Why should any of these top tier players leave their monied positions for lesser pay? Prestige? When Paige leaves UConn the best she can make on a rookie contract is 50K. Why even bother to play in the Association at all? What's the incentive for all of the best players to continue league play? Certainly, these new rules will encourage developement in lesser players. But the WNBA risks becoming a minor league system for the more lucrative foreign contracts.

The leagues are not only coexisting but there's still international players that want to come to the US to play.
The WNBA has new 50/50 revenue sharing, TV contracts and corporate sponsors.
It rewards player longevity.
I don't see the sky falling on the WNBA.
It's becoming more subsidized by corporations just as the Russian teams are subsidized by Russian oligarchs.
A simple financial penalty isn't going to lead to the demise of the WNBA, quite the opposite as new investors are backing the WNBA and viewership of the women is increasing.

WNBA 2021 commercial guide: Every franchise, every sponsor, all the major TV deals - SportsPro

With the WNBA's landmark 25th season now in full swing, SportsPro presents a definitive team-by-team rundown of all the off-court details you need to know about North America's premier women's basketball league.

www.sportspromedia.com

WNBA players in Russia 'trying to leave': Shabazz Napier returns to US

American professional basketball players competing in Russia during the WNBA offseason are scrambling to return to the US after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The WNBA players' union has a new strategy to get its players paid and increase investment in women's sports

Announced on Women's Equality Day, the WNBPA's partnership with Parity aims to connect players with sponsors and work towards pay equity in sports.

www.insider.com

Jordan Brand makes history by partnering with 11 emerging WNBA players

To celebrate the 25th anniversary of the WNBA's inaugural game, Jordan Brand announced its largest female roster in the history of women's basketball.

www.usatoday.com

Here's a list of all the latest WNBA player contracts.
At 39, Taurasi is making almost 1/4 million $'s which isn't 10 times less than most European players.
She had a Nike shoe deal back in 2005 - 2006.

2024 WNBA Rankings

Listing the top salaries, cap hits, cash, earnings, contracts, and bonuses, for all active WNBA players.

www.spotrac.com

 

[sun]

Stewie is the 10th WNBA player to have a shoe deal in the last 25 years

Breanna Stewart will become 10th WNBA player to receive ‘signature’ shoe after signing with Puma

The plan for Stewart's signature shoe was announced on Wednesday, when it was revealed that she had signed an endorsement deal with Puma.

www.syracuse.com

 

[JordyG]

The leagues are not only coexisting but there's still international players that want to come to the US to play.
The WNBA has new 50/50 revenue sharing, TV contracts and corporate sponsors.
It rewards player longevity.
I don't see the sky falling on the WNBA.
It's becoming more subsidized by corporations just as the Russian teams are subsidized by Russian oligarchs.
A simple financial penalty isn't going to lead to the demise of the WNBA, quite the opposite as new investors are backing the WNBA and viewership of the women is increasing.

WNBA 2021 commercial guide: Every franchise, every sponsor, all the major TV deals - SportsPro

With the WNBA's landmark 25th season now in full swing, SportsPro presents a definitive team-by-team rundown of all the off-court details you need to know about North America's premier women's basketball league.

www.sportspromedia.com

WNBA players in Russia 'trying to leave': Shabazz Napier returns to US

American professional basketball players competing in Russia during the WNBA offseason are scrambling to return to the US after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The WNBA players' union has a new strategy to get its players paid and increase investment in women's sports

Announced on Women's Equality Day, the WNBPA's partnership with Parity aims to connect players with sponsors and work towards pay equity in sports.

www.insider.com

Jordan Brand makes history by partnering with 11 emerging WNBA players

To celebrate the 25th anniversary of the WNBA's inaugural game, Jordan Brand announced its largest female roster in the history of women's basketball.

www.usatoday.com

Here's a list of all the latest WNBA player contracts.
At 39, Taurasi is making almost 1/4 million $'s which isn't 10 times less than most European players.
She had a Nike shoe deal back in 2005 - 2006.

2024 WNBA Rankings

Listing the top salaries, cap hits, cash, earnings, contracts, and bonuses, for all active WNBA players.

www.spotrac.com

I specifically said Diana was making under 230K, and that her contract overseas is 1.5 million. I also specifically said top players entering the league would make 50K, but would be offered 10 times that to play overseas. But lets take in other considerations. The new CBA offers improved living conditions for players, but it's still a pittance compared to playing overseas. The new deal provides 2 bedroom apartments for even the best players with children. Overseas, these top players are living rent free in 6 bedroom villas with indoor pools and saunas, part time cooks, interpreters, and full time drivers. More, they could receive multiple round-trip, business-class flights between the United States and their home European city during the season, and regularly fly business class or charter for road games. They would play in a new arena with a photo mural of the team stretching across the entire back wall. For Diana and Bird the owner phoned them several times a day, took them to dinner and shows, and flew them abroad on break. If I'm Caitlin Clark coming out of college, why the hell would I want to play in the US for 57K when I could potentially make 10 times that with all these benefits? Hell, she already makes that in NIL. What's the incentive? Where is the reward versus the risk? That is what a free market economy is and does.

Revenue sharing is based on potential, and it's all based on the league achieving revenue growth targets from broadcast agreements, marketing partnerships and licensing deals. Let's take the deal with Parity for instance. These monies will be distributed between multiple sports, not just WBB. So much of that will not go to the League. Also understand, the equity stakes for all investors will be in the league itself, in a break with how some other leagues have approached raising capital in recent years. Normally leagues have raised cash by selling equity in a separate commercial arm to avoid giving investors actual shares in teams or the league, while still allowing them to share in commercial revenue. That means investors have a larger voice in how the team operates, which players receive what salaries, what improvements are made etc. That also means the league will be in an interesting bind if these growth targets aren't met. If game attendance drops, if salaries increase too much versus say maintenance and concessions; worse, if there is another shutdown or if these growth targets aren't met, the league could be carved up like a turkey. Further, the revenue is shared 50-50, which is good. That is of course, after the NBA gets its 50% cut. Nevertheless, at the time of the new CBA, for the most part, the overwhelming majority of teams were virtually valueless, considering cost versus assets. Right now, without the NBA 50%, these teams are still major money pits. Most importantly, all of this financial speculation is based on one thing, the willingness of the American public to support WBB in far greater numbers than it has. Investment is good, but it's meaningless without fan attendance. Attendance in far greater numbers than the interest that polls show they currently have. These new, optimistic owners and investors are actually rolling the dice with very little risk on their part, since these franchises are actually worth very little and their investments are comparatively small. But failure will potentially mean the dissolution of the league.

What concerns me is that this new CBA is centered on the delegitimization of all other BB leagues. In the history of economics, from what my limited experience knows, that only works if the bigger businesses undercut the smaller ones, or businesses on parity, not the other way around. That route has, historically in a free market economy, been anathema to smaller businesses. Plus, the prioritization rule does absolutely nothing to grow the game, but rather attempts to limit access to both players and fans. I fail to see how this benefits WBB at all. This is parochialism at its worse.

Yes, the war with the Ukraine is more than just troubling, or an inconvenience for overseas basketball. It's a war for the fate of a country, where there are real, deadly costs and consequences in terms of lives and families. Yes, because of this war, some foreign players will be leaving their Russian clubs. Think those players won't be picked up by FIBA League basketball? Do you think that when this tragedy is over players won't return to Russia to play?

 

[HopJim]

I specifically said Diana was making under 230K, and that her contract overseas is 1.5 million. I also specifically said top players entering the league would make 50K, but would be offered 10 times that to play overseas. But lets take in other considerations. The new CBA offers improved living conditions for players, but it's still a pittance compared to playing overseas. The new deal provides 2 bedroom apartments for even the best players with children. Overseas, these top players are living rent free in 6 bedroom villas with indoor pools and saunas, part time cooks, interpreters, and full time drivers. More, they could receive multiple round-trip, business-class flights between the United States and their home European city during the season, and regularly fly business class or charter for road games. They would play in a new arena with a photo mural of the team stretching across the entire back wall. For Diana and Bird the owner phoned them several times a day, took them to dinner and shows, and flew them abroad on break. If I'm Caitlin Clark coming out of college, why the hell would I want to play in the US for 57K when I could potentially make 10 times that with all these benefits? Hell, she already makes that in NIL. What's the incentive? Where is the reward versus the risk? That is what a free market economy is and does.

Revenue sharing is based on potential, and it's all based on the league achieving revenue growth targets from broadcast agreements, marketing partnerships and licensing deals. Let's take the deal with Parity for instance. These monies will be distributed between multiple sports, not just WBB. So much of that will not go to the League. Also understand, the equity stakes for all investors will be in the league itself, in a break with how some other leagues have approached raising capital in recent years. Normally leagues have raised cash by selling equity in a separate commercial arm to avoid giving investors actual shares in teams or the league, while still allowing them to share in commercial revenue. That means investors have a larger voice in how the team operates, which players receive what salaries, what improvements are made etc. That also means the league will be in an interesting bind if these growth targets aren't met. If game attendance drops, if salaries increase too much versus say maintenance and concessions; worse, if there is another shutdown or if these growth targets aren't met, the league could be carved up like a turkey. Further, the revenue is shared 50-50, which is good. That is of course, after the NBA gets its 50% cut. Nevertheless, at the time of the new CBA, for the most part, the overwhelming majority of teams were virtually valueless, considering cost versus assets. Right now, without the NBA 50%, these teams are still major money pits. Most importantly, all of this financial speculation is based on one thing, the willingness of the American public to support WBB in far greater numbers than it has. Investment is good, but it's meaningless without fan attendance. Attendance in far greater numbers than the interest that polls show they currently have. These new, optimistic owners and investors are actually rolling the dice with very little risk on their part, since these franchises are actually worth very little and their investments are comparatively small. But failure will potentially mean the dissolution of the league.

What concerns me is that this new CBA is centered on the delegitimization of all other BB leagues. In the history of economics, from what my limited experience knows, that only works if the bigger businesses undercut the smaller ones, or businesses on parity, not the other way around. That route has, historically in a free market economy, been anathema to smaller businesses. Plus, the prioritization rule does absolutely nothing to grow the game, but rather attempts to limit access to both players and fans. I fail to see how this benefits WBB at all. This is parochialism at its worse.

Yes, the war with the Ukraine is more than just troubling, or an inconvenience for overseas basketball. It's a war for the fate of a country, where there are real, deadly costs and consequences in terms of lives and families. Yes, because of this war, some foreign players will be leaving their Russian clubs. Think those players won't be picked up by FIBA League basketball? Do you think that when this tragedy is over players won't return to Russia to play?

Some good points; some that misrepresent facts in this VERY lengthy assessment. Agree that the new CBA appears to assume they have power that may develop but not here today. Disagree on the amount of money foreign players make. While Diana makes millions, that money is only for a relatively few.
As an example, German Pro and B league players make $1-2+K per month, Polish league players make $2-15K a month. They typically play a few months a year. True, they do not pay taxes and get free housing but most do not ride first class or play in arenas larger than 3-5K. Some European teams go out of business each year with their players flying home at their own expense. Slots are limited with teams having limits on the number of US players.
For Tarasi and a limited number of top-level players, European basketball will set them up for life. For most, balancing US and foreign basketball is a tough balancing act.

 

[Blakeon18]

Somewhere in this debate I think this is relevant.

When an elite American player graduates from college and she chooses to play in a foreign
league her salary will be larger than the one she gets in the WNBA. But if she plays overseas and not in the
USA what are the chances for her getting endorsement money here at home. We know that excellent American players...especially ones with some sizzle to their name...make very good [non-WNBA salaried] money.

Have a great pro career in Turkey/Japan/Russia wherever...I would think the impact on the player's brand here would be minimal. Have the same great career and win WNBA championships...be on TV [unlike foreign games]...and I would guess/hope that non salary income would blossom. Witness some examples of that today in the WNBA.

If the Forbes account is close to accurate it seems that one of our own favorites is making close to 7 figures in NIL
money early in her college career. Yikes! Good for her! After graduation will her brand be in a better place playing in the WNBA or in Australia or some other international site? My guess is you can make the argument that total income for a player can be equal or higher for an American staying here in the WNBA than going overseas.

If an elite high school player graduated and went immediately to play in the pros overseas...or went after a year or so of college, would we care about her or her brand? Stay here...play great...maybe have some cross-over appeal and you might be in a much better financial situation than by playing overseas.

If PB or were now playing great in China/Turkey/wherever...would we be all that involved in their development and their financial brand? Close to 7 figures worth?

 

[sun]

.I fail to see how this benefits WBB at all. This is parochialism at its worse.

The WNBA policy is intended to be protectionist.
The WNBA has been around for 25 years and has established itself based on NBA backing.
I doubt that it's going anywhere.

As far as the pay disparity is concerned, folks should be informed that many Americans working overseas need to pay foreign income taxes.
And who knows, maybe they also need to pay US income taxes on top of that.
That would certainly be a double whammy if the needed to pay income tax of 30% to both countries.

I've read some reports by players about playing WBB in Europe.
Some places are better than others.
It's not for everyone and it's not a panacea.
Maybe it is for some players working in some countries more than others.
But whatever players chose to do, it deosn't seem to be a problem for the WNBA to be concerned about.
It's may be a problem for some fans, but the league is a business with a clear agreement.
I don't know if the provision was negotiated or not, but the WNBA is in control of its own destiny and not beholden to European leagues and players that can't be relied on.

Some MLB players play baseball in South American winter leagues and they can be cut just like anyone else, especially if they're not able to report.
The pro players need to adhere to their agreements and generally everything works out fine.

Read below about the income taxes on foreigners working in Russia.

Does Russia tax foreign income?

Foreign individuals present in Russia for 183 days in a year or more are treated as residents for tax purposes and are taxed at common 13 percent rates. If they are present in Russia for less than 183 days, they are subject to 30 percent income tax (15 percent for dividends).

Taxation in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JordyG]

Some good points; some that misrepresent facts in this VERY lengthy assessment. Agree that the new CBA appears to assume they have power that may develop but not here today. Disagree on the amount of money foreign players make. While Diana makes millions, that money is only for a relatively few.
As an example, German Pro and B league players make $1-2+K per month, Polish league players make $2-15K a month. They typically play a few months a year. True, they do not pay taxes and get free housing but most do not ride first class or play in arenas larger than 3-5K. Some European teams go out of business each year with their players flying home at their own expense. Slots are limited with teams having limits on the number of US players.
For Tarasi and a limited number of top-level players, European basketball will set them up for life. For most, balancing US and foreign basketball is a tough balancing act.

Indeed, all you say is true. Yet my argument is precisely about those very high profile, star players. Players that the fans in every country fill the venues to see. These are the players that have the option to refuse summer play and not break their contracts with their foreign teams. It's player such as Kayla McBride and Syndney Reese are om a real bind. They can't afford to play only in The Association's summer league. They need to play in Turkey and Australia to survive, and they certainly can't afford any punitive fines.

 

[JordyG]

The WNBA policy is intended to be protectionist.
The WNBA has been around for 25 years and has established itself based on NBA backing.
I doubt that it's going anywhere.

As far as the pay disparity is concerned, folks should be informed that many Americans working overseas need to pay foreign income taxes.
And who knows, maybe they also need to pay US income taxes on top of that.
That would certainly be a double whammy if the needed to pay income tax of 30% to both countries.

I've read some reports by players about playing WBB in Europe.
Some places are better than others.
It's not for everyone and it's not a panacea.
Maybe it is for some players working in some countries more than others.
But whatever players chose to do, it deosn't seem to be a problem for the WNBA to be concerned about.
It's may be a problem for some fans, but the league is a business with a clear agreement.
I don't know if the provision was negotiated or not, but the WNBA is in control of its own destiny and not beholden to European leagues and players that can't be relied on.

Some MLB players play baseball in South American winter leagues and they can be cut just like anyone else, especially if they're not able to report.
The pro players need to adhere to their agreements and generally everything works out fine.

Read below about the income taxes on foreigners working in Russia.

Does Russia tax foreign income?

Foreign individuals present in Russia for 183 days in a year or more are treated as residents for tax purposes and are taxed at common 13 percent rates. If they are present in Russia for less than 183 days, they are subject to 30 percent income tax (15 percent for dividends).

Taxation in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You say the prioritization rule is protectionist. I say it's provincialism. I say it does nothing to advance BB around the world...and make no mistake, this is a worldwide sport that is growing exponentially. IMO this type of circling the wagons will backfire in the long run.

NBA support has not only been admirable, but warranted for the leagues survival. Without the NBA's largesse and good will, the league would have gone the way of the buggy whip, which lasted for more than a 1000 years. That doesn't mean that support is everlasting, and that doesn't mean the WNBA can't become obsolete. Again, those are the results of a free market economy.

Here is a list of all the American players signed and playing overseas WNBA Players Playing Overseas - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA. It may not be a "problem" for the WNBA, its owners and investors, but it's certainly a necessity for the survival of all of these players. Players who can least afford to beak their contracts, or absorb a punitive fine. However, the thrust of my argument is about the star players that fill the seats in American arenas. Those players that can't or won't be "cut just like anyone else". If those players decide to honor their foreign contracts, who will come to see a team whose best players are Kia Nurse and Kahleah Cooper?

Frankly, most of the rest of your arguments are irrelevant. For most players playing overseas, the teams pay their taxes. That includes Russia.

 

[JordyG]

Somewhere in this debate I think this is relevant.

When an elite American player graduates from college and she chooses to play in a foreign
league her salary will be larger than the one she gets in the WNBA. But if she plays overseas and not in the
USA what are the chances for her getting endorsement money here at home. We know that excellent American players...especially ones with some sizzle to their name...make very good [non-WNBA salaried] money.

Have a great pro career in Turkey/Japan/Russia wherever...I would think the impact on the player's brand here would be minimal. Have the same great career and win WNBA championships...be on TV [unlike foreign games]...and I would guess/hope that non salary income would blossom. Witness some examples of that today in the WNBA.

If the Forbes account is close to accurate it seems that one of our own favorites is making close to 7 figures in NIL
money early in her college career. Yikes! Good for her! After graduation will her brand be in a better place playing in the WNBA or in Australia or some other international site? My guess is you can make the argument that total income for a player can be equal or higher for an American staying here in the WNBA than going overseas.

If an elite high school player graduated and went immediately to play in the pros overseas...or went after a year or so of college, would we care about her or her brand? Stay here...play great...maybe have some cross-over appeal and you might be in a much better financial situation than by playing overseas.

If PB or Azzi Fudd were now playing great in China/Turkey/wherever...would we be all that involved in their development and their financial brand? Close to 7 figures worth?

Yours is the only argument I've seen that effectively questions the idea of college graduates eschewing the WNBA and choosing to play overseas. The options then for a Caitlin Clarke/Fudd/Paige is to sign with both leagues, absorb the punitive fine, and honor their overseas contract, or somehow have their foreign teams pay the fines. Thereby having her endorsement cake and eat it too. Star veteran players as well. However, for every star player there are twenty 2nd tier players that won't have that option. Most players coming out of college and most veteran players don't have endorsement or NIL deals to fall back on, and they need those foreign contracts to survive. Section 9 of the CBA effects them the most. Also, for every one star player that finagles through or accepts the fine, there may be one that doesn't believe their WNBA contract is enough to jeopardize their foreign monies, 6 bedroom villas, and personal cooks.

Would young recent star grads lose the impetus of their branding in the American market if they chose to immediately limit their play to foreign leagues? Absolutely. But here's the deal as I see it. IMO it's the foreign market and foreign leagues that are growing faster than the American market. Many of these leagues are state sponsored, better funded, better protected against failure, and their young players are developing at an accelerated rate. Soon those markets will be filled with endorsement opportunities rivaling those in America, and the potential for growth in that area overseas is greater than here in the US. As I said, I think that American owners and investors are rolling the dice with little fiduciary investment, and it's the players, the fans, and the taxpayers that are really footing the bill. The WNBA is saying to these young stars, "Just wait. When we get our together we hope and pray it'll be something great". The foreign leagues are saying "We're already great because we have our together, and it'll just get better".