OT - City of Providence, RI

[Waquoit]

Hartford was even Rowland's pet project, with the stadium fiasco, Adrien's Landing, Convention Center, Science Center, etc.

He let the Whalers go and his staff gave him a standing ovation. A pro team trumps all of that other stuff. It seperated Hartford from the Providences. But there is no skim to keeping something that already exists, just building new stuff.

 

[upstater]

Wow people afraid of living in cities!!!!

 

[sledog]

Been there a lot. Ok, I'll throw in Union Lg Cafe.

 

[huskypantz]

Providence is a nice day trip. I've gone to a couple of cool bars there (Olive's is the one that stood out), seen the firewater display etc. The problem is that it's in RI. Their unemployment rate is horrendous in a region where the neighboring states are significantly better off. Their government appears to be in shambles, as is much of their infrastructure. Their recent major economic failure was loaning Curt Shilling tons of money so he could run a video game company into the ground.

 

[RuffRuff]

Colleges bring culture, youth, a vibe and an ecclectic environment. It's been hit up here, but it's without question a major advantage. I remember talking to a professional who lived in Boston with a job that could work remotely. He wanted some land for his kids and was scouting the US and the one biggest factor that he weighed in the areas that he was looking was that it had a large college campus nearby. When you look at what are often rated the best places to live, so many of those cities are exactly that - college cities. Austin, Madison, Fort Collins

As for New Have and crime - I mean, if that's what is keeping you from exploring, get on some Xanax. All cities have a little crime - it's not like you are going into Iraq. New Haven and Providence, I believe, may have two of the highest populations of Italian American's, hence some of those good restaurants. To that point, a friend who grew up in Danielson told me that when his family went out in Fed Hill back in the day, some of the restaurant owners would actually accept Lira as currency.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Hartford should be a lot better than it is, and Providence has done very well to be as good a city as it is. Hartford has a much better economic base than Providence, and is easier to get to from the surrounding metro area. While Connecticut has corruption, it is bush league compared to Rhode Island, which holds seminars in corruption. Rhode Island, Illinois and Louisiana are an entirely different league when it comes to government corruption. Connecticut isn't even in the next Ohio/New Jersey level of corruption.

The result of this is that Rhode Island is a difficult state to do business in, because the bribes and kickbacks are virtually endless. Rhode Island was recently rated as the worst state for business in the entire country. Since the ocean is not going anywhere, Rhode Island can continue to operate like it does and maintain a minimum level of economic activity. All of which makes the Providence renaissance all the more impressive. It is simply a great small city that has done well despite its state.

Connecticut has poured money into its cities, and nothing seems to work. I don't think it is corruption as much as incompetence. While Waterbury is a lost cause, and Stamford is fine on its own, Hartford, Bridgeport and New Haven should not suck as bad as they do.

 

[husky99]

that fire water thing is very cool... bring kids or loved one

 

[upstater]

I don't see why people are comparing Providence to Hartford. It should be more properly compared to New Haven.

Providence v. New Haven

1. Brown, Prov. Coll., RISD, Johnson & Wales = Yale, UNH, So. Ct. St. U., Albertus Magnus

2. Great ethnic food in both places / I think fine cuisine is so-so, not great, in both cities (Prov. has a great French restaurant near the banks below the East side, NH has the Union League cafe

3. Pretty good bar scenes.

4. I'd give an edge to New Haven's theater and arts scene. New Haven's galleries and libraries associated with Yale are world class, while Brown doesn't have anything like that. Yale Rep. Theatre and Long Wharf are well known.

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston

6. Access to pretty good beaches: Prov. is about 45 minutes from Little Compton and Horseneck, New Haven about 35 minutes from Hammonasset.

7. The only thing Prov. has better than New Haven is better hotels and a better downtown mall, if you're into that sort of thing.

 

[RS9999X]

Hartford v Providence:

Size: the same. 18 square miles
Population: P is 50% larger
Whites: H 15.8% P 40%
Blacks: H 40% P 16%

After White Flight in the post Reagan era most of the best White Housing is along the border of the burbs. You can hear some old white women in a nice Tudor up there on Asylum screaming to the kids: "I don't want you going downtown. You go to Blue Black Square where you belong. And try screwing some Doctor's son. That's what your mom did!"

from Wikipedia:

With 30 percent of the population living below the poverty line, Hartford's rate of poverty is second in the United States only to Brownsville, Texas.[22]

 

[Robertelamin]

Hartford screwed itself by not keeping up with West Hartford Center. Hartford can't compete with Providence when Hartford can't compete against one of its suburbs. I mean really, why go to Hartford when you can go to West Hartford unless you are going to a game/concert?

 

[RS9999X]

Hartford screwed itself by not keeping up with West Hartford Center. Hartford can't compete with Providence when Hartford can't compete against one of its suburbs. I mean really, why go to Hartford when you can go to West Hartford unless you are going to a game/concert?

That's it. Manchester Malls to the East side, Enfield or Holyoke Malls to the North, newer malls in Simsbury and Blue Black to the West, and Berlin/Newington/Wethersfield to the south. Hartford is not a destination point unless you work there or go to the Civic Center. Same story since Bill Savitt closed his doors . New firms opening up in Windsor or Manchester or Bristol and avoiding Hartford completely..

Hartford's no place for th soccer mom crowd.

Then comes the Romney budget cuts in state government and Romney recession

 

[RS9999X]

500 largest US cities in the US (population of 64,000 and above. 2010 Census)

Top 10 poverty rates (individual)
Detroit , MI ''--' 31.3
Lorain , OH ''--' 31.0
Flint , MI ''--' 30.9
Camden , NJ ''--' 30.2
Youngstown , OH ''--' 29.8
Brownsville , TX ''--' 29.8
Hartford , CT ''--' 29.7
Gary , IN ''--' 29.6
Pontiac , MI ''--' 29.1
Cleveland , OH ''--' 28.8

 

[upstater]

That's it. Manchester Malls to the East side, Enfield or Holyoke Malls to the North, newer malls in Simsbury and Blue Black to the West, and Berlin/Newington/Wethersfield to the south. Hartford is not a destination point unless you work there or go to the Civic Center. Same story since Bill Savitt closed his doors . New firms opening up in Windsor or Manchester or Bristol and avoiding Hartford completely..

Hartford's no place for th soccer mom crowd.

Then comes the Romney budget cuts in state government and Romney recession

Every city in America has such destination points. Some get along just fine regardless. It's about density. It's about urban housing and transport. Those are the issues. Until a city gets serious about housing, you're not going to find people out and about. New Haven in the 1980s had very little housing in the center. Then you had the 9th square redevelopment, townhouses popping up on Whitney, and soon they achieved a decent mass that encouraged other developers to get to work on Chapel and College. It's not great but you need that kind of forward thinking.

 

[Waquoit]

Hartford is not a destination point unless you work there or go to the Civic Center.

So I guess I won't see you at the Bushnell Park Jazz Festival tonight?

 

[RIHusky13]

I think Providence has done a very good job of not trying to be anything it's not. It's not a big city and it doesn't try to be. I think the best move Providence made was building the Providence Place mall. Instead of throwing up some ugly skyscraper that you would go in if you worked there, adding the mall gave people a real destination for going downtown. Then connecting it to the Westin hotel, RI convention center, and Dunkin Donuts center was great for the city. For Providence College games, people will park in the mall garage ($2 for up to five hours), eat at the mall, then walk to the Dunkin Donuts center without ever having to go outside.

Also, the city embraces the culture of Brown and RISD on the east side, which makes you feel like you're in an entirely different place after driving or walking only minutes from downtown.

 

[upstater]

Providence's Trinity Repertory Company has won a Tony Award for outstanding regional theater. Several recent Academy Award actor nominees have been part of the company at one time such as Viola Davis and Richard Jenkins. The resident RI Philharmonic makes its home at the 1,900 seat Veterans Memorial Auditorium. The Providence Performing Arts Center, a 3,100 seat venue hosts touring Broadway shows and concerts. The recently renovated 12,400 seat Dunkin Donuts Center hosts many sporting events and concerts. There are alos a number of live music venues such as Lupos.

The MBTA commuter rail now extwends from Boston to Wickford (town of North Kingstown), a few stops south of Providence with longer term plans to extend it to Kington (URI( and Westerly.

[/quote]

I stand by what I wrote. I've lived in both cities. New Haven is considered O.O.Broadway. Every city has live music venues, even Rochester. No big deal there.

 

[RS9999X]

Every city in America has such destination points. Some get along just fine regardless. It's about density. It's about urban housing and transport. Those are the issues. Until a city gets serious about housing, you're not going to find people out and about. New Haven in the 1980s had very little housing in the center. Then you had the 9th square redevelopment, townhouses popping up on Whitney, and soon they achieved a decent mass that encouraged other developers to get to work on Chapel and College. It's not great but you need that kind of forward thinking.

Before the market crash Larry Gottesdiener's who owned half of Hartford apartments like Hartfrod 21 was armed with urban density studies and pushing to have the Civic Center moved to the other side of Route 84 and Albany ave which would open up mucho space for new apartments and condos and likely mean Albany Ave would be upscale on the lower section and behind the CC would be old Hartford. That was when the Butt Ugly Building was Hartford's mascot.

Now Northland's in dire financial straights after losing most of their portfolio like the Goodiwn Hotel and Metro North.

 

[RS9999X]

So I guess I won't see you at the Bushnell Park Jazz Festival tonight?

No but you misunderstand me. I like Hartford -- there's quite a bit to do if you are willing to dig a little to find the film festivals, plays and theaters, and jazz nights. Real Art Ways, the Warehouse,--there's stuff going on.

 

[Palatine]

Just get the BE out of Providence. It's nice they set the river on fire like Cleveland used to. But having the BE there is stupid.

 

[Yonick]

It's a positive to have 4,500 more empty seats sitting there unused? Who goes to the Civic Center for anything anymore?

The UConn men sell out most of their BE games, along with OOC big games. Baylor & the UConn women will sell out.
Plus, many concerts will sell just giving the XL center a good advantage over the "Dunk". The Whale are the only problem here.

 

[Rico444]

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston


New Haven is 2 hours, not one away. I take the train in from Milford, which is closer than New Haven, and it's a 1 hour, 47 minute ride.

 

[upstater]

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston


New Haven is 2 hours, not one away. I take the train in from Milford, which is closer than New Haven, and it's a 1 hour, 47 minute ride.

Oh well, then drive. I've made it to NYC in 45 mins. on a night without traffic.

 

[yankeewc]

Mayor Buddy Cianci was mayor of Providence 1975/1984 and 1991/2002. Forced to resign twice due to felony convictions and served 4 yrs in federal prison. Many books written on the massive corruption going on in Providence politics but many things got done that otherwise would never have been accomplished. In this instance, crime did pay for the city of Providence.

 

[Excalibur]

Agree that NH is the better comparison. Hartford has screwed up just about every major decision in the last 30 years. More below.

I don't see why people are comparing Providence to Hartford. It should be more properly compared to New Haven.

Providence v. New Haven

1. Brown, Prov. Coll., RISD, Johnson & Wales = Yale, UNH, So. Ct. St. U., Albertus Magnus Other than Yale, Prov. is much more "connected" to its colleges. Plus, Yale didn't give a about the surrounding neighborhoods until about 10 years ago. The improvement since then has been astounding.

2. Great ethnic food in both places / I think fine cuisine is so-so, not great, in both cities (Prov. has a great French restaurant near the banks below the East side, NH has the Union League cafe. New Haven has a clear edge, IMO, in both "ethnic" food and fine dining. Nothing in Providence can touch ULC, Zinc, Caseus etc . . . . What NH needs is a take out lunch place like East Side Pockets on Thayer St. I almost never miss a chance for a Gyro pocket with the works . . .

3. Pretty good bar scenes. Getting a bit old for this, but my experience is that they are roughly equal.

4. I'd give an edge to New Haven's theater and arts scene. New Haven's galleries and libraries associated with Yale are world class, while Brown doesn't have anything like that. Yale Rep. Theatre and Long Wharf are well known. Clear edge to New Haven. Hartford Stage is better than Trinity Rep as well.

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston

6. Access to pretty good beaches: Prov. is about 45 minutes from Little Compton and Horseneck, New Haven about 35 minutes from Hammonasset. Clear edge to Prov., though the better beaches are to the west, particularly Charlestown, East, and Weekapaug. Horseneck is a hole, though cheap parking is a positive. You can't go in the water after the end of June due to massive drifts of red seaweed.

7. The only thing Prov. has better than New Haven is better hotels and a better downtown mall, if you're into that sort of thing.
New Haven doesn't have the high end shopping that Providence has put in PP. Some of the chains have streetfront stores near Yale.

 

[upstater]

Agree that NH is the better comparison. Hartford has screwed up just about every major decision in the last 30 years. More below.

I've had great Asian/Malaysian and Ethiopian in New Haven, but in Providence, Apsara's, Mexico Garibaldi, the taco stands, Wes's Ribs, all outdo New Haven's Mexican, Thai and BBQ. And there's a no name/no sign Guatemalan restaurant in a shack behind the Jaguar dealership in So. Prov. that is fantastic. Not sure if they have a license to operate. The lady who runs it used to give me a jar of pickled veggies (spicy as hell) when I'd come in. Don't go if it's Guatemalan soccer night; it's bad news.

That being said, I found Prov's upscale joints very overrated, especially the Italian ones. But then again, I feel the same about Boston's North End. In NYC you can great authentic Italian fairly easily. In New england--not so much.