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OT Anthony Bourdain dead

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Wow. Trying to get through this one made me want to kill myself.

Too soon?

I'm not a 'never make light of suicide' guy but I can't begin to imagine finding this funny if for no other reason than that it's not close to being funny. You have some work to do before we even get to ethics.
 

ctchamps

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As with anything else, I think this is a complex issue with many facets. First, I wouldn't discount the void left behind by spirituality. Most people are not very spiritual any more, even if they believe in a higher power. I had a mentor for years who passed away from pancreatic cancer. He was brilliant but tortured. Common story, no? He finally found peace when he began to study all of the world's religions. He chose to call them wisdom traditions. He was raised Jewish but studied everything. He began to see the common threads or the true nuggets of wisdom. Those are what got him through and to the other side. Those are what brought him peace. He was not a scientist but I am and when he began to share those nuggets with me, I could see the possibilities of how they also could be consistent with science. The problem is, when you are no longer immersed in that environment or no longer have people you regularly talk to about these things, they can fade into the background of your mind. Then you start living in the past or the future again. You lose self awareness and lose focus on the present. And when you live in the past or the future you are so much more likely to suffer. It is unlikely that any of us are bio-chemically perfect and/or that we have been fortunate enough to have not had a psychologically traumatic event in our lives. Those things often lead to attachment of some form. And then you either fear losing that which you are attached to or become depressed over something you already lost. It becomes brutal when those attachments are people. Loss can take on many forms with people. It can be the worst form in terms of death or can simply be separation. Now, if you are brilliant, you also probably think, A LOT. If those thoughts are in the past or the future, you torture yourself, A LOT. Then you become mentally exhausted. Eventually, you reach a breaking point and death seems like the best path to peace. That is all people really want, deep down. Peace.

There also seems to be a connection with anti-depressants. It seems they often make matters worse. It depends on the person. We have a long way to go here, as several have mentioned.

And I will add that our society evolves and not always in a direction consistent with achieving inner-peace. I think America has long been between a rock and a hard place. We look at the lifestyle that those who live on the Mediterranean live and we want that for ourselves. Who wouldn't want a low stress, laid back, lifestyle??? But their economies struggle because they don't, in general, "work hard enough". Then we look toward Asia and see threats to our own economy because, relative to them, we don't "work hard enough". Hard work and enjoying the fruits of our labor is in the DNA of Americans so we are self-programmed to want to compete with the Asians. We don't want to be "out-worked" by anyone. In a way, our society itself is bi-polar. It is easy to always be doubting yourself and your choices when you want two opposing things at the same time. You constantly feel torn. Now, consider that over the last 20-30 years, the percentage of the American population that is Asian-American has been growing rapidly. Initially, they came here as international students. Some undergrad, some grad. Many of them brought with them that fierce competitiveness of their culture. Why their culture is that way is another question for another day but I believe much of it has been driven by decades of scarcity. Next, consider that most of these immigrants were the very top of their country in terms of socio-economics and intellect. I am talking the top fraction of a percent. Maybe hundredths of a percent. So, in terms of profession and education, they end up mingling with the best of the best of our country. Again, these are the people that think, A LOT. They fear not being competitive so they raise their efforts. They sacrifice more of the little things to better compete for the big things. But those little things provide the variety that is the spice of life. Has anyone looked at the insanity that is the spelling bee lately? Think what you want but two of the recent winners actually went to grammar school with my kids. I can tell you that these kids sacrifice A LOT of their childhood to bring status and recognition to their families. Kids that age don't naturally get geeked up about spelling, no matter how nerdy they are. This is coming from their hyper-competitive parents. Then the mentality leaks into high school. Have you seen the courses some of these high schools offer now?!?!?! There are kids that have taken Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations by the end of their junior year. This push for more and more and more comes from that hyper-competitive mentality. If one kid takes Calc 2 then I want my kid to take Vector Calculus so he has a better chance to get into Harvard. Then it becomes Linear Algebra. Then Differential Equations. More and more and more. But at what cost? These kids barely sleep and barely have down time for those little things. And it is no less insane with extracurriculars and community service. Kids are pushed to play more and more sports. They are pushed to be better and better by playing and/or going to camps in the summer. And community service? Now it has to be hundreds of hours and often away from home in third world countries because the key is to be "distinguished" in some way. And if it isn't community service, these kids are pushed to do "research" over the summer and often away from home. It is common now for kids to skip lunch to take an extra AP class so they can have a higher class rank. Could we do any more to raise exhausted and stressed out kids?!?!? Is it really any surprise that the number of kids in therapy at top colleges is rising rapidly? How could it not! Cornell had to put nets under their foot bridges because kids jumping became an issue. I know of at least two kids there that were told they were a disappointment because they only got into Cornell. Think about all of this for a second.

So we have a push to want more because we don't want to be seen as lazy or less. On top of that we are losing our spiritual compass and that is leading to attachment and living in anything but the present. Simpler times were called that for a reason. The less simple life becomes, the more people that get pushed to the breaking point.
Societal pressures certainly have a role in all this. Environment is one factor. Genetics is the other.

Put someone with a genetic predisposition for depression in an environment with stress and you have a recipe for disaster. This tragic death and others like it demonstrates that there is a wide range with how we perceive our environments.

As @Irish Loop pointed out there is no difference between diabetes and depression. They both have chemical malfunctions which can be exacerbated by environmental conditions. There is a lot of knowledge regarding how the brain works but that knowledge has not filtered down to the public in a manner that could help humanity understand why our behaviors are vastly different from one another.
 
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I'm not a 'never make light of suicide' guy but I can't begin to imagine finding this funny if for no other reason than that it's not close to being funny. You have some work to do before we even get to ethics.
I've asked him to not bring up my dead father ever again and he has failed to do so. There is no bar too low for this guy. Some people are just bad people.
 
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I think a lot of the sentiments in this thread are well-intended but misguided. There are some fatal, fundamental flaws in the way we've come to process mental health. It's not cancer, or heart disease, or diabetes. Those comparisons help unveil a crucial empathy that often overcomes these fallacies indirectly, but in the long-run it does nothing to address either the origin or solution.

Mental illness needs to be standardized in a way that is accessible to everybody and not just a select group of wealthy white people. By comparing it to cancer you inadvertently de-normalize something that, in actuality, is the one thing that can be normalized.

Trust me. I was practically born into a counseling office. You can take this over any of my basketball opinions. There is a major hole in the system that is causing this. Don't let progress in other areas - as we've seen from this thread - distort the truth that is dancing before our eyes.
 

ElGuapo

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Very sad.


At least we still have Guy Fieri.

You Savage!
I'm turning you into the PT Mods for stealing this quote from QuinnTheEskimoe!
I hope they delete your PT Gold account forever!
 

August_West

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You Savage!
I'm turning you into the PT Mods for stealing this quote from QuinnTheEskimoe!
I hope they delete your PT Gold account forever!


Im platinum, phanner.
 
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As with anything else, I think this is a complex issue with many facets. First, I wouldn't discount the void left behind by spirituality. Most people are not very spiritual any more, even if they believe in a higher power. I had a mentor for years who passed away from pancreatic cancer. He was brilliant but tortured. Common story, no? He finally found peace when he began to study all of the world's religions. He chose to call them wisdom traditions. He was raised Jewish but studied everything. He began to see the common threads or the true nuggets of wisdom. Those are what got him through and to the other side. Those are what brought him peace. He was not a scientist but I am and when he began to share those nuggets with me, I could see the possibilities of how they also could be consistent with science. The problem is, when you are no longer immersed in that environment or no longer have people you regularly talk to about these things, they can fade into the background of your mind. Then you start living in the past or the future again. You lose self awareness and lose focus on the present. And when you live in the past or the future you are so much more likely to suffer. It is unlikely that any of us are bio-chemically perfect and/or that we have been fortunate enough to have not had a psychologically traumatic event in our lives. Those things often lead to attachment of some form. And then you either fear losing that which you are attached to or become depressed over something you already lost. It becomes brutal when those attachments are people. Loss can take on many forms with people. It can be the worst form in terms of death or can simply be separation. Now, if you are brilliant, you also probably think, A LOT. If those thoughts are in the past or the future, you torture yourself, A LOT. Then you become mentally exhausted. Eventually, you reach a breaking point and death seems like the best path to peace. That is all people really want, deep down. Peace.

There also seems to be a connection with anti-depressants. It seems they often make matters worse. It depends on the person. We have a long way to go here, as several have mentioned.

And I will add that our society evolves and not always in a direction consistent with achieving inner-peace. I think America has long been between a rock and a hard place. We look at the lifestyle that those who live on the Mediterranean live and we want that for ourselves. Who wouldn't want a low stress, laid back, lifestyle??? But their economies struggle because they don't, in general, "work hard enough". Then we look toward Asia and see threats to our own economy because, relative to them, we don't "work hard enough". Hard work and enjoying the fruits of our labor is in the DNA of Americans so we are self-programmed to want to compete with the Asians. We don't want to be "out-worked" by anyone. In a way, our society itself is bi-polar. It is easy to always be doubting yourself and your choices when you want two opposing things at the same time. You constantly feel torn. Now, consider that over the last 20-30 years, the percentage of the American population that is Asian-American has been growing rapidly. Initially, they came here as international students. Some undergrad, some grad. Many of them brought with them that fierce competitiveness of their culture. Why their culture is that way is another question for another day but I believe much of it has been driven by decades of scarcity. Next, consider that most of these immigrants were the very top of their country in terms of socio-economics and intellect. I am talking the top fraction of a percent. Maybe hundredths of a percent. So, in terms of profession and education, they end up mingling with the best of the best of our country. Again, these are the people that think, A LOT. They fear not being competitive so they raise their efforts. They sacrifice more of the little things to better compete for the big things. But those little things provide the variety that is the spice of life. Has anyone looked at the insanity that is the spelling bee lately? Think what you want but two of the recent winners actually went to grammar school with my kids. I can tell you that these kids sacrifice A LOT of their childhood to bring status and recognition to their families. Kids that age don't naturally get geeked up about spelling, no matter how nerdy they are. This is coming from their hyper-competitive parents. Then the mentality leaks into high school. Have you seen the courses some of these high schools offer now?!?!?! There are kids that have taken Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations by the end of their junior year. This push for more and more and more comes from that hyper-competitive mentality. If one kid takes Calc 2 then I want my kid to take Vector Calculus so he has a better chance to get into Harvard. Then it becomes Linear Algebra. Then Differential Equations. More and more and more. But at what cost? These kids barely sleep and barely have down time for those little things. And it is no less insane with extracurriculars and community service. Kids are pushed to play more and more sports. They are pushed to be better and better by playing and/or going to camps in the summer. And community service? Now it has to be hundreds of hours and often away from home in third world countries because the key is to be "distinguished" in some way. And if it isn't community service, these kids are pushed to do "research" over the summer and often away from home. It is common now for kids to skip lunch to take an extra AP class so they can have a higher class rank. Could we do any more to raise exhausted and stressed out kids?!?!? Is it really any surprise that the number of kids in therapy at top colleges is rising rapidly? How could it not! Cornell had to put nets under their foot bridges because kids jumping became an issue. I know of at least two kids there that were told they were a disappointment because they only got into Cornell. Think about all of this for a second.

So we have a push to want more because we don't want to be seen as lazy or less. On top of that we are losing our spiritual compass and that is leading to attachment and living in anything but the present. Simpler times were called that for a reason. The less simple life becomes, the more people that get pushed to the breaking point.

I'm glad you're thinking this through well. It's important that more people actually try to process suicide and depression.

I don't agree with some of what you say (particularly about immigrants, and bi-polar America), but I appreciate the perspective.
 
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It's horrible humor merely for shock value. Sometimes that brings a guffaw though. The post he was responding to was bad...
 
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I've asked him to not bring up my dead father ever again and he has failed to do so. There is no bar too low for this guy. Some people are just bad people.

#sigworthy
 
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It's horrible humor merely for shock value. Sometimes that brings a guffaw though. The post he was responding to was bad...

The ironic thing is Bourdain would have loved my post.
 
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It was amazing how he used food and drink to show us all how similar we really are. Whether you are from Hong Kong or Hartford, you can find commonality with almost anyone if you take the time to have a meal with them and just talk. Be kind to your fellow man and try something new in honor of Anthony.

RIP

I work with vendors domestic and international and, I always say, once you've had a meal with someone, that relationship is forever different.
 
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So, good question off topic for you. You have played at most golf courses in the CT/MA area. What are the top 2-3 kitchen/restaurants for you?

Wow that is a very good question. Now unlike many others I am a proponent of a great golf course bar and deck area (highly unusual I know). It helps if there are hot bartenders but that's not everything. I'd go this way:

1) Southington CC - it's most definitely not the course which wins this spot but the way they remodeled the bar, stone deck and it usually has a friendly staff - great spot. And very good food at very affordable prices, impressive job by the AquaTurf family in creating a space where the golfers stay and the outsiders want to go party.

2) Fairview Farms - small bar but great stone patio overlooking 9 and 18 greens and great food. They should create a bigger bar space but they make so much cash on the banquets, weddings and such due to the lovely setting they probably never will.

3) Tradition-Wallingford - again not a great layout, not bad either but the bar area nice, you can walk outside on the decl and watch the 5th green. Good service ,very good food and ample cocktails.
 
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The ironic thing is Bourdain would have loved my post.

Bourdain was an empathetic and kind individual by all reports. How can you possibly predict that?

You're an idiot. And have been.
 

joober jones

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I heard this story early this morning. It's an extremely sad and tragic situation - this was a guy whose life was in total disarray yet he managed to pull it together and become very successful, only to have it all end in futility. I had the pleasure of meeting him once and he was a genuinely great guy. My deepest condolences go out to his friends and family.
 
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Sad for Bourdain, family, friends & others. Quality comment by DO.

Idle observation: In the States: A) Is the current rate of suicide truly X% higher than some specific prior year Y, e.g., someone suggested 25% above versus some prior period? B) To what extent are people, families, medical professionals, etc willing to report deaths as likely suicides versus some specific prior year Y? C) What role does social media's influence on reporting account for perceptions of higher suicide rates? D) Some hybrid of A+B+C+other TBD?
 
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Mental illness needs to be standardized in a way that's accessible to everybody and not just a select group of wealthy white people.

Being wealthy and white may provide greater accessibility to mental health treatment but, as for these two, no greater measure of success.
 

joober jones

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Being wealthy and white may provide greater accessibility to mental health treatment but, as for these two, no greater measure of success.

There's so much corruption in the field of mental health and pharmaceuticals that no race or income bracket demographic can be assured of access to adequate/effective mental health support. Don't get me wrong, there are many good and well-meaning people in the field, but to a lot of people it's just a paycheck. You can get a top level psychiatrist who will just pump you full of whatever medication they feel like giving on that particular day, results be damned. The kickbacks are too much to resist for some. As for residential treatment/emergency hospitalization, there's so much overcrowding and so little staff that even when everyone gives 150% it's still not enough. I've seen people of all races and income levels be denied proper treatment or given poor treatment that made them worse off than they were beforehand.
 
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Sad for Bourdain, family, friends & others. Quality comment by DO.

Idle observation: In the States: A) Is the current rate of suicide truly X% higher than some specific prior year Y, e.g., someone suggested 25% above versus some prior period? B) To what extent are people, families, medical professionals, etc willing to report deaths as likely suicides versus some specific prior year Y? C) What role does social media's influence on reporting account for perceptions of higher suicide rates? D) Some hybrid of A+B+C+other TBD?

A person i went to highschool died a year ago from alcohol poisoning from basically drinking himself to death in a battle with depression. His family wouldn't come out and say though that is what it was which i get but at the same time continues the stigma that we shouldn't openly talk about mental health or depression.
 

8893

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There's so much corruption in the field of mental health and pharmaceuticals that no race or income bracket demographic can be assured of access to adequate/effective mental health support. Don't get me wrong, there are many good and well-meaning people in the field, but to a lot of people it's just a paycheck. You can get a top level psychiatrist who will just pump you full of whatever medication they feel like giving on that particular day, results be damned. The kickbacks are too much to resist for some. As for residential treatment/emergency hospitalization, there's so much overcrowding and so little staff that even when everyone gives 150% it's still not enough. I've seen people of all races and income levels be denied proper treatment or given poor treatment that made them worse off than they were beforehand.
It can also be difficult to find a quality psychiatrist who accepts insurance.
 
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A person i went to highschool died a year ago from alcohol poisoning from basically drinking himself to death in a battle with depression. His family wouldn't come out and say though that is what it was which i get but at the same time continues the stigma that we shouldn't openly talk about mental health or depression.
A few years ago I lost 5 friends back in Connecticut to drinking themselves to death and or suicide. It's incredibly difficult for family to cope with their loved one dying in such a desperate and lonely manner. It's pretty crazy how quickly people can spiral and lose all hope.
 
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A few years ago I lost 5 friends back in Connecticut to drinking themselves to death and or suicide. It's incredibly difficult for family to cope with their loved one dying in such a desperate and lonely manner. It's pretty crazy how quickly people can spiral and lose all hope.

wow thats awful, cant imagine losing 5 friends. Were they all living in the same general area?
 
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wow thats awful, cant imagine losing 5 friends. Were they all living in the same general area?
All grew up in Northwest Connecticut and all still lived there except for one of them, they were all within a few classes of each other. They weren't my best friends or anything but they were all people I considered friends and grew up with and or spent a lot of time with at one point in my life. For a small population it seemed like people all of a sudden started dropping like flies when they reached their late 30's.
 

intlzncster

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I don't think it's a switch at all. It's something going on inside of people all the time. But we learn to hide it. We learn not to talk about it, because you're not supposed to talk about it. Because people tell you to cheer up, to be happy for yourself, to count your blessings.

So quietly, you suffer, and you go on, every day, because you're supposed to be happy, and you're supposed to feel satisfied, and all this success is supposed to mean something, but you just feel empty and worthless inside, and you know you don't deserve it.

Depression doesn't care if you're rich or handsome or powerful or popular or surrounded by people who worship you. Why would you think it does? Does diabetes care if you're rich? Does cancer care if you have a TV show or a bestselling book?

We still don't take it seriously as a disease. We say, "How can someone with such a life be depressed," because we still think, well, they should just *choose* to be happy. As if people wouldn't choose that option if they could.

All you can do is just try to manage it. And sometimes, you lose that battle. Sometimes, the depression just wears you down, and you're so tired of feeling so sh!tty, of feeling like nothing matters, of feeling like you're worthless and unworthy of love, that you'd rather just not be alive anymore.

But please don't view it as a reflection of who these people are. It's not. It's the disease.

Get help if you can. Go to therapy. Get treatment. It can help. It's helped me.

But it doesn't help everyone. And we need to look at it honestly as a disease.


Great post. I don't have much to add, but I do think a lot of people who haven't experienced 'real' depression simply can't understand it, and therefore right it off as simply 'feeling sad', or 'down', or 'sorry for yourself' or what have you. It's not. It's also another world when people experience major depression where they have to live with it for months and years, slowly wearing you down and strangling you.

It's really interesting to see brain scans of healthy vs depressed people. Healthy brain scans are all lit up in different areas of the brain, while depressed peoples' scans have a much smaller, more isolated area of the brain dully illuminated. Much less activity.

People say that the person is being selfish with suicide, but really, the 'empathic' and logic parts of their brain simply aren't functioning.
 

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