NCAA proposing new college athletics subdivision rooted in direct athlete compensation

[Patman]

But of course NIL money does not come the school. By definition. Right? Only in this new NCAA proposal will money come from the school. That is the point.

I think I said that.

 

[rich-1295]

… and away we go:

Can someone please summarize in say 5 bullet points what this means for UCONN football? And basketball?

 

[RSTuthill]

I think I said that.

Money from the school is hugely different than money not coming from the school. One is subject to Title IX and one is not. And I was questioning whether Baker's proposal was feasible because that money WOULD be subject to Title IX. Thus a whole lot of women in non-revenue sports would have to get paid to offset FB. Hugely expensive.

 

[ZooCougar]

Based on this series of charts. It appears the G5 is practically on borrowed time. Unless sports can be subsidized then the gap will only get wider.

If you don’t already have a spare $13 M lying around then how do have the resources to opt in?

 

[J187Money]

Have a hard time believing that cutting track & field w/ a combined 30.6 equivalency scholarships (18 women’s/12.6 men’s) across diverse student demographics will be on any table. (I count under 95 total athletes across both teams)

UConn Receives Historic Gift to Support New Student-athlete Success Center - UConn Today

Former Student-Athlete Trisha Bailey ’99 (CLAS) Commits Lead Gift for Major Renovation and Expansion Project

today.uconn.edu

Right - most T&F athletes aren't getting full rides. And a good number of the athletes never go to any travel meets. It doesn't cost as much to run T&F as you think.

 

[Patman]

Money from the school is hugely different than money not coming from the school. One is subject to Title IX and one is not. And I was questioning whether Baker's proposal was feasible because that money WOULD be subject to Title IX. Thus a whole lot of women in non-revenue sports would have to get paid to offset FB. Hugely expensive.

and I also said that

 

[RSTuthill]

and I also said that

Sorry, it was unclear to me what you were getting at. I guess I would challenge your statement that resulting violations would never trigger lawsuits because of politics. In my view, when there is that much money to be had, the lawyers would be all over it and the lawsuits would come out of the woodwork.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[cohenzone]

Why not just bite the whole nut and stop the student-athlete pretense. Let colleges sponsor a team if they want and get players under contract for say 2-5 years until say age 24 and if they want to be a student at the school they can apply like anyone else. Kind of missing from the whole equation is the fact that depending on the cost to attend the school is a value of somewhere between 30 and 75 grand a year. My really good student grandkids will have to find a way to finance that not-insignificant benefit the athletes get. I don’t begrudge it but it isn’t as if they aren’t getting a nice little financial boost without NIL and one free get out of jail card.

 

[giddyup]

Why not just bite the whole nut and stop the student-athlete pretense. Let colleges sponsor a team if they want and get players under contract for say 2-5 years until say age 24 and if they want to be a student at the school they can apply like anyone else. Kind of missing from the whole equation is the fact that depending on the cost to attend the school is a value of somewhere between 30 and 75 grand a year. My really good student grandkids will have to find a way to finance that not-insignificant benefit the athletes get. I don’t begrudge it but it isn’t as if they aren’t getting a nice little financial boost without NIL and one free get out of jail card.

The whole system is a disaster and I can’t see that being a good direction. There some benefit in the athletes being part of the student body. It breaks down barriers and builds relationships among people that wouldn’t otherwise develop.

What needs to happen is a tax system just like the pros. Each school can spend x dollars and NIl dollars are included. If they spend more, it goes to schools under the cap.

The objective must be to maintain relative competitive parity in the sport or it will destroy itself.

 

[cohenzone]

The whole system is a disaster and I can’t see that being a good direction. There some benefit in the athletes being part of the student body. It breaks down barriers and builds relationships among people that wouldn’t otherwise develop.

What needs to happen is a tax system just like the pros. Each school can spend x dollars and NIl dollars are included. If they spend more, it goes to schools under the cap.

The objective must be to maintain relative competitive parity in the sport or it will destroy itself.

It is already going done the hole. All that’s happening now is some attempt to put lipstick on the monster so it looks like amateur sports when it’s getting further away every year.

 

[Jimdish255]

I was suggesting a trust fund contingent upon graduation should have been a central part of their compensation for about 10 years. That along with some regulated version of NIL could have staved off the madness they have unleashed on college athletics. But this was never about common sense, or negotiation, or players "working" conditions. It was about greed and who thought they could win the arms race. Now the Universities and donors involved are faced with an escalating market for players who can jump ship at any time, bench themselves when convenient, and have zero incentive to graduate. In essence many of them are mercenaries with family and friends giving a lot of bad advice. But the money is good and the "winners" get to pat themselves on the back at cocktail parties and board meetings while they dish out more and more for those moments of glory. That's probably the main reason this will be hard to salvage. Universities with integrity will still be there, but they will always have a harder time succeeding in this environment.

 

[Dizzy21]

One thing that is odd in the whole debate is that aside from coaches, where are people thinking all this money to pay the kids is coming from. People act like schools are getting rich off the kids. Maybe 20 or less athletics departments operate at any significant surplus, maybe even less. All the revenue at most schools, well way more than all the revenue the schools get from athletics is already being spent on the athletics. It is not like the school is riding high and saying we made a ton of money off of these kids. Yeah, maybe there is some room in coaching salaries to be spread to the kids, but other than that, what huge money are schools getting that they are not sharing with the kids? People always say share the revenue, well then why shouldn't the expenses of creating that revenue be shared too. When it comes down to it, basically no athletic department is profitable.

 

[huskymedic]

Too much money involved. It’s all going to come crashing down — all that’s left is to wait for the next iteration.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Dizzy21]

Well this just got wild.

 

[Patman]

I was suggesting a trust fund contingent upon graduation should have been a central part of their compensation for about 10 years. That along with some regulated version of NIL could have staved off the madness they have unleashed on college athletics. But this was never about common sense, or negotiation, or players "working" conditions. It was about greed and who thought they could win the arms race. Now the Universities and donors involved are faced with an escalating market for players who can jump ship at any time, bench themselves when convenient, and have zero incentive to graduate. In essence many of them are mercenaries with family and friends giving a lot of bad advice. But the money is good and the "winners" get to pat themselves on the back at cocktail parties and board meetings while they dish out more and more for those moments of glory. That's probably the main reason this will be hard to salvage. Universities with integrity will still be there, but they will always have a harder time succeeding in this environment.

Trust fund??!?!?! Why would a college graduate need a university specific trust fund? And wasn't the argument that poor players couldnt clothe and feed themselves as amateurs? I don't know where some of you get these crazy ideas about the way the world should work.

 

[Patman]

One thing that is odd in the whole debate is that aside from coaches, where are people thinking all this money to pay the kids is coming from. People act like schools are getting rich off the kids. Maybe 20 or less athletics departments operate at any significant surplus, maybe even less. All the revenue at most schools, well way more than all the revenue the schools get from athletics is already being spent on the athletics. It is not like the school is riding high and saying we made a ton of money off of these kids. Yeah, maybe there is some room in coaching salaries to be spread to the kids, but other than that, what huge money are schools getting that they are not sharing with the kids? People always say share the revenue, well then why shouldn't the expenses of creating that revenue be shared too. When it comes down to it, basically no athletic department is profitable.

This is where I think this idea that some how college athletes are employees are very short sighted. You make them employees then where's the cutoff? Is it only Division 1 where they are employees? Scholarship athletes only? Well, then good bye scholarships. Division 3? What of club athletes.

 

[Dizzy21]

This is where I think this idea that some how college athletes are employees are very short sighted. You make them employees then where's the cutoff? Is it only Division 1 where they are employees? Scholarship athletes only? Well, then good bye scholarships. Division 3? What of club athletes.

If the state paying for the kid's tuition is making them an employee, would a high school kid be an employee too? The town and state pay for their school. Would someone getting an academic scholarship be an employee too? I don't know what the law states, but seems like very similar situations where the institution is paying for education making them an employee for some reason.

 

[How Sway?!]

They need to let the players unionize and collectively bargain some rules. It's going to be a lot more expensive continuing how things are at the moment

 

[CL82]

For 14 days anyway.

 

[RSTuthill]

Regardless of how all this plays out, we need to remember that Rule 1 is still in force and applies to this sea change as well as realignment. No getting around it.

 

[shizzle787]

This will not be the final draft. In fact, I don't think the NCAA or the big schools will be calling the shots. The Supreme Court will. Although I think Baker is competent, the NCAA is not as a whole and within five years schools will be directly compensating athletes as employees with no salary cap.

College athletics is going to look like European soccer. Programs with vastly differently wage bills will be competing for the same titles with only a handle of schools winning them (the last part being similar to now).

I expect most schools outside of Division 1 to bow out of college athletics. They will convert their ADs to club sports. Title IX will still have to be in play so I could see the biggest schools (now having to shell out tens of millions extra in payroll) reducing the number of required sports to a more manageable number. A lot of Olympic sports will be converted to club sports (especially on the men's side). However, male and female athletes will not have to be paid the same.

Which schools will pay their athletes is up for debate, but I do think UConn and the Big East schools will.