OT: NBA Playoffs

[UofCT]

Having Lebron is selling out in any long term success, while getting instant short term results. Literally happened everywhere. To @superjohn point, the guy plays GM on these teams. They end up being at or over cap, required to re-sign players to above market deals using bird rights because you can’t replace them in FA because you’re at cap.

Who cares

 

[nelsonmuntz]

you must be a youngster
The NBA is now a watered down foul plagued ghost of even 10 years ago
It's mostly kids who couldn't physically or mentally make the teams of the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's
As I said earlier it's like the OBE vs the NBE - men vs boys
The refs of the past would laugh at LeBrons constant belly aching and he would be shown the showers

Did you actually watch basketball back then?

Let's go by decade:

60's - There were a handful of teams in the League and the sport was getting the third and fourth tier athletes after football and baseball. There were teams with 6'6 centers. The fact that the Celtics could so completely dominate the sport shows it was not that good.

70's - A drug induced mess of a decade from a basketball standpoint. A small talent pool was further diluted by the ABA. Stars were one way players like George Gervin. The NBA Finals were put on tape delay and shown at 11:30 for a reason. The product sucked.

80's - While Bird and Johnson saved the game, it took Stern about 3-4 years to clean up the drug problem. Some of the 70's stars like Kareem, Moses and Dr. J really shined in the 80's. The problem was that a lot of teams didn't play defense. The Denver Nuggets were one of the best teams in the West in the 80's and they literally played no defense at all. If you can find a Dominique Hawks game on classic sports, I recommend you watch it. Dominique will frequently be walking back on defense. Kelly Tripuka once said he would never try to rebound again after spraining his ankle going up for a board.

90's - Expansion diluted the product, and Knicks' Wrestle Ball was brutal to watch. Teams couldn't shoot back then either. Weird rules like Illegal Defense created an awkward game, and there were some strange teams pre-analytics (Knicks with 3 guards, Rivers, Starks, Anthony, that couldn't shoot). Europeans showed up in force and the quality of play improved as the decade progressed.

With the end of the 90's, basketball started to get really good. Euro ball and zone defenses had a really positive effect on the game. The influx of talented foreigners like Duncan, Parker, Ming and Nowitski raised the overall talent level. Coaching got better overall, and the game improved a lot.

We are in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it.

 

[Lefty2one]

With the end of the 90's, basketball started to get really good. Euro ball and zone defenses had a really positive effect on the game. The influx of talented foreigners like Duncan, Parker, Ming and Nowitski raised the overall talent level. Coaching got better overall, and the game improved a lot.

I agree with most of your post but this part is insane. '99-'07 was by far the worst era of NBA basketball. Slow pace and low scoring, way too much isolation, poor efficiency, too much physicality, and most importantly the league was really watered down during this time. It was basically the late 90s with half the talent.

The Eastern Conference was a joke (the Celtics made the playoffs in '04 despite being ten games under .500), too many high school busts, too many AAU-type guys who wanted to try to be the next MJ, the Kings were the only team with a respectable level of ball movement, plus all the great Dream Team era players were gone or in the twilight of their career. The seeds were planted with the foreign movement but it took a long time for it have the major impact it has today. The league is lucky as hell the Shaq/Kobe dynasty happened.

I enjoy the modern NBA despite it's strong "entertainment product" feel and I loved the 90s. The aughts though were so, so bad. All people need to know about the early aughts is that the level of play and the entertainment product (TV ratings went in the toilet) were so alarming that the league was compelled to make the seismic rule changes in 2005 that led to the modern NBA's style of play.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Did you actually watch basketball back then?

Let's go by decade:

60's - There were a handful of teams in the League and the sport was getting the third and fourth tier athletes after football and baseball. There were teams with 6'6 centers. The fact that the Celtics could so completely dominate the sport shows it was not that good.

70's - A drug induced mess of a decade from a basketball standpoint. A small talent pool was further diluted by the ABA. Stars were one way players like George Gervin. The NBA Finals were put on tape delay and shown at 11:30 for a reason. The product sucked.

80's - While Bird and Johnson saved the game, it took Stern about 3-4 years to clean up the drug problem. Some of the 70's stars like Kareem, Moses and Dr. J really shined in the 80's. The problem was that a lot of teams didn't play defense. The Denver Nuggets were one of the best teams in the West in the 80's and they literally played no defense at all. If you can find a Dominique Hawks game on classic sports, I recommend you watch it. Dominique will frequently be walking back on defense. Kelly Tripuka once said he would never try to rebound again after spraining his ankle going up for a board.

90's - Expansion diluted the product, and Knicks' Wrestle Ball was brutal to watch. Teams couldn't shoot back then either. Weird rules like Illegal Defense created an awkward game, and there were some strange teams pre-analytics (Knicks with 3 guards, Rivers, Starks, Anthony, that couldn't shoot). Europeans showed up in force and the quality of play improved as the decade progressed.

With the end of the 90's, basketball started to get really good. Euro ball and zone defenses had a really positive effect on the game. The influx of talented foreigners like Duncan, Parker, Ming and Nowitski raised the overall talent level. Coaching got better overall, and the game improved a lot.

We are in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it.

But hurr all the players these days durr get to fly hurr on private planes durr and nobody can hand check hurr durr

 

[UofCT]

I agree with most of your post but this part is insane. '99-'07 was by far the worst era of NBA basketball. Slow pace and low scoring, way too much isolation, poor efficiency, too much physicality, and most importantly the league was really watered down during this time. It was basically the late 90s with half the talent.

The Eastern Conference was a joke (the Celtics made the playoffs in '04 despite being ten games under .500), too many high school busts, too many AAU-type guys who wanted to try to be the next MJ, the Kings were the only team with a respectable level of ball movement, plus all the great Dream Team era players were gone or in the twilight of their career. The seeds were planted with the foreign movement but it took a long time for it have the major impact it has today. The league is lucky as hell the Shaq/Kobe dynasty happened.

I enjoy the modern NBA despite it's strong "entertainment product" feel and I loved the 90s. The aughts though were so, so bad. All people need to know about the early aughts is that the level of play and the entertainment product (TV ratings went in the toilet) were so alarming that the league was compelled to make the seismic rule changes in 2005 that led to the modern NBA's style of play.

You would think the "GOAT" could at least clinch a playoff spot during this joke of an era. I guess not.

 

[the Q]

I agree with most of your post but this part is insane. '99-'07 was by far the worst era of NBA basketball. Slow pace and low scoring, way too much isolation, poor efficiency, too much physicality, and most importantly the league was really watered down during this time. It was basically the late 90s with half the talent.

The Eastern Conference was a joke (the Celtics made the playoffs in '04 despite being ten games under .500), too many high school busts, too many AAU-type guys who wanted to try to be the next MJ, the Kings were the only team with a respectable level of ball movement, plus all the great Dream Team era players were gone or in the twilight of their career. The seeds were planted with the foreign movement but it took a long time for it have the major impact it has today. The league is lucky as hell the Shaq/Kobe dynasty happened.

I enjoy the modern NBA despite it's strong "entertainment product" feel and I loved the 90s. The aughts though were so, so bad. All people need to know about the early aughts is that the level of play and the entertainment product (TV ratings went in the toilet) were so alarming that the league was compelled to make the seismic rule changes in 2005 that led to the modern NBA's style of play.

The rule charges started to stop Shaq. Let’s not kid ourselves.

I miss good post up basketball. The way the game was created to exist.

And those ratings dwarf the trash being put out right now.

 

[Scoe]

You would think the "GOAT" could at least clinch a playoff spot during this joke of an era. I guess not.

MJ did just dispatch Lebron in 5 games in back to back series on what if sports.

 

[Ratso]

after the celtics big 3, lebron ran with it

lakers not losing another game

 

[UofCT]

MJ did just dispatch Lebron in 5 games in back to back series on what if sports.

this isn’t a what if situation. MJ missed the playoffs twice while the East was at its worst.

 

[Lefty2one]

The rule charges started to stop Shaq. Let’s not kid ourselves.

I miss good post up basketball. The way the game was created to exist.

That was only with zone in 2001.

2005 with hand checking and freedom of movement was all about overall play and raising scoring.

 

[the Q]

That was only with zone in 2001.

2005 with hand checking and freedom of movement was all about overall play and raising scoring.

like I said. They started to stop Shaq. And they still didn’t call the hand checking these guys did to Shaq. which was total bs

 

[Mr. French]

Lebron - 8 pts, 5 Turnovers.

 

[auror]

AD looks like the NBA version of Hasheem Thabeet in college out there. He just changes everything remotely close to the basket when he's in there.

 

[Lefty2one]

like I said. They started to stop Shaq. And they still didn’t call the hand checking these guys did to Shaq. which was total bs

Because hand-checking has never been illegal in the post. It was a perimeter issue.

"A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket with his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm)."

 

[UConn990411]

Dragic’s absence was even more noticeable in that 4th quarter. Talk about a collapse by the Heat.

 

[superjohn]

Dragic’s absence was even more noticeable in that 4th quarter. Talk about a collapse by the Heat.

They couldn't run offense the whole game. Would've liked to have seen this series with the Heat at full strength.

 

[Adios]

Idk man it’s baffling to me, too.

When you go around telling people you are the best of all time instead of them telling you, it can turn some people off. Ask the younger NBA players who were in the bubble. "Players beneath me..."

It's just a freaking game that didn't exist over 200 years ago and now some think they are gods over a stupid game. That's actually more baffling. LeBron (and MJ) would get mutilated by some MMA fighters.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

LeBron (and MJ) would get mutilated by some MMA fighters.

Who gives a ____? They’d probably lose a game of football to an NFL team. So what?

 

[superjohn]

When you go around telling people you are the best of all time instead of them telling you, it can turn some people off. Ask the younger NBA players who were in the bubble. "Players beneath me..."

It's just a freaking game that didn't exist over 200 years ago and now some think they are gods over a stupid game. That's actually more baffling. LeBron (and MJ) would get mutilated by some MMA fighters.

Why on earth would they fight MMA fighters?

 

[Adios]

Who gives a ____? They’d probably lose a game of football to an NFL team. So what?

At least fighting is a sport that has a very, very long history.

 

[bmayuc]

Anyone who writes something along the lines of "(Random modern athlete) would never be able to hold their own against players in (random era from like 30-50 years ago), who were much more manly" should just be banned at this point.

All of us good posters should agree to just systematically mute their terrible rose-colored opinions. It's exhausting and nonsensical. You drop Jordan in today's game and he spent 2000 hours every summer getting a 3 pt shot and working on skip passes out of doubles. You put a beast like LeBron in the 80s and he is freight training dudes in the lane for a living.

The greats are always great - compare them against their own eras and stop the cross-era comparison madness. Just agree they are all good, and their excellence inspired the next generation to get even better. Its what makes sports great.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Anyone who writes something along the lines of "(Random modern athlete) would never be able to hold their own against players in (random era from like 30-50 years ago), who were much more manly" should just be banned at this point.

All of us good posters should agree to just systematically mute their terrible rose-colored opinions. It's exhausting and nonsensical. You drop Jordan in today's game and he spent 2000 hours every summer getting a 3 pt shot and working on skip passes out of doubles. You put a beast like LeBron in the 80s and he is freight training dudes in the lane for a living.

The greats are always great - compare them against their own eras and stop the cross-era comparison madness. Just agree they are all good, and their excellence inspired the next generation to get even better. Its what makes sports great.

I think Jordan benefited more from The unique factors of the era he played in than any other player since 1980. I don't think Jordan wins 6 titles if he comes 5 years earlier or 5 years later.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

People talk about the injuries the Heat are suffering; which is far. But those folks seem to forget the Lakers best defensive guard never even entered the Bubble.

I beleive a lot of players would like to have a 28 pt, 12 reb, 9 dimes, on 50% shooting be considered an off night. With all the mileage on his odometer, it is simply amazing. Of course, those numbers would be great if he was 25 years old. At 35 years old, they are insane.

 

[Rocktheworld]

When you go around telling people you are the best of all time instead of them telling you, it can turn some people off. Ask the younger NBA players who were in the bubble. "Players beneath me..."

It's just a freaking game that didn't exist over 200 years ago and now some think they are gods over a stupid game. That's actually more baffling. LeBron (and MJ) would get mutilated by some MMA fighters.

Man could you be saltier

 

[the Q]

Because hand-checking has never been illegal in the post. It was a perimeter issue.

"A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket with his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm)."

Which is ridiculous. You cannot effectively push, lean on or try to displace a player who has a legal position for any spot on the floor.

The nba allowing that is just awful.

Once again proving it’s not real basketball.