NBA Playoffs 2023

[huskypantz]

This game was a catastrophe. Brown was beyond awful in every phase except rebounding. Go Denver.

I don’t see Brown as deserving the supermax. In looking at the top 50 or so players, he seems like he fits in around the 30m range. We heard through the grapevine multiple times during the season that he felt like he could be “the man”. He has yet to show that. He’s a very good player. When he’s on fire, he’s great and generally solid otherwise. This playoffs, he just does not seem to have the ability to take over the game. His points and rebounds are down with TO’s up from reg season to playoffs. He’s young and I’m sure someone will pay him max if he gets to FA but it just seems like we’re going to put a lot of resources into a guy who is not elite.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don’t see Brown as deserving the supermax. In looking at the top 50 or so players, he seems like he fits in around the 30m range. We heard through the grapevine multiple times during the season that he felt like he could be “the man”. He has yet to show that. He’s a very good player. When he’s on fire, he’s great and generally solid otherwise. This playoffs, he just does not seem to have the ability to take over the game. His points and rebounds are down with TO’s up from reg season to playoffs. He’s young and I’m sure someone will pay him max if he gets to FA but it just seems like we’re going to put a lot of resources into a guy who is not elite.

I am inclined to agree. The turnovers is something he hasn't been able to solve in multiple seasons now. It's a killer in playoff games. I'm not sure what the solution is. They can't just let him walk. Have to work out a sign and trade. I don't know who they'd even target if they did that. You can start White at SG, so maybe there is a SF out there.

 

[huskypantz]

I am inclined to agree. The turnovers is something he hasn't been able to solve in multiple seasons now. It's a killer in playoff games. I'm not sure what the solution is. They can't just let him walk. Have to work out a sign and trade. I don't know who they'd even target if they did that. You can start White at SG, so maybe there is a SF out there.

I am not a fan of Mazzulla. If they brought in a new coach who felt they could position the players (including Jaylen) for better success, I’d be on board with that. I’m really not sure that this all falls on Jaylen - he’s young and needs to be coached.

 

[superjohn]

I am not a fan of Mazzulla. If they brought in a new coach who felt they could position the players (including Jaylen) for better success, I’d be on board with that. I’m really not sure that this all falls on Jaylen - he’s young and needs to be coached.

Locking up over $600 million in those two seems kind of nuts to me...

NBA Memes on Twitter: " Jaylen Brown is eligible for a 5-year, $295 million supermax extension this summer. Jayson Tatum is eligible for a 5-year, $318 million extension in 2024. https://post original url/HU3bSkIwra" / Twitter

 

[HuskyHawk]

Locking up over $600 million in those two seems kind of nuts to me...

NBA Memes on Twitter: " Jaylen Brown is eligible for a 5-year, $295 million supermax extension this summer. Jayson Tatum is eligible for a 5-year, $318 million extension in 2024. https://post original url/HU3bSkIwra" / Twitter

It's a problem. But you can't let him walk. To @huskypantz's point, coaching could help, but Jaylen struggled with his handle under Ime and Brad, so maybe it's who he is.

Can you trade him for lots of picks and a decent player? Lillard? But does that solve anything? You'd have to move Smart as well. There's no easy answer and NBA trades are so difficult.

 

[aceboon]

with the way the new CBA is setup I don't really see how the Celtics committing that amount of money to two players is viable to building a contender going forward.

 

[huskypantz]

It's a problem. But you can't let him walk. To @huskypantz's point, coaching could help, but Jaylen struggled with his handle under Ime and Brad, so maybe it's who he is.

Can you trade him for lots of picks and a decent player? Lillard? But does that solve anything? You'd have to move Smart as well. There's no easy answer and NBA trades are so difficult.

It just kills me that Jimmy Butler and the seven Dwarves (sorry Bam) took 4 from us, 3 on our court. Spoels is a great coach but we had multiple solid players who could have similarly stepped up. That’s why I keep coming back to coaching. There’s not enough cap to bring in a true game-changer. It has to either be tinkering with coaching strategies or looking for “better fit” pieces. We were shopping for another big at the deadline, maybe that could have helped but really we needed our stars to step up and dominate. Whatever we do, it has to be done around Tatum.

 

[Kenny11]

It just kills me that Jimmy Butler and the seven Dwarves (sorry Bam) took 4 from us, 3 on our court. Spoels is a great coach but we had multiple solid players who could have similarly stepped up. That’s why I keep coming back to coaching. There’s not enough cap to bring in a true game-changer. It has to either be tinkering with coaching strategies or looking for “better fit” pieces. We were shopping for another big at the deadline, maybe that could have helped but really we needed our stars to step up and dominate. Whatever we do, it has to be done around Tatum.

I know basketball is based on 3-point shooting now but the celtics take it to an extreme. They have a bunch of good shooters but they are all streaky. They win when they are hot and they lose when they are off. Their adjustments seem to be tatum making more difficult 3 pointers. His go-to move is a contested side step 3 pointer. He's so good that this should not be his main move. They really need Udoka back. He made all these guys more accountable. Brown is very good but he still can't dribble, unfortunately.

 

[superjohn]

I know basketball is based on 3-point shooting now but the celtics take it to an extreme. They have a bunch of good shooters but they are all streaky. They win when they are hot and they lose when they are off. Their adjustments seem to be tatum making more difficult 3 pointers. His go-to move is a contested side step 3 pointer. He's so good that this should not be his main move. They really need Udoka back. He made all these guys more accountable. Brown is very good but he still can't dribble, unfortunately.

Didn't Tatum play like that under Udoka too though? I thought he looked like he would have a midrange game at the beginning of his career but he fell in love with the three pointer. It looks pretty amazing when his shot is rolling but he's been a three pointer or try and finish with a layup player for the past 2-3 years it seems. It's why he's inconsistent and often throws up clunkers in the fourth quarters of big games.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Didn't Tatum play like that under Udoka too though? I thought he looked like he would have a midrange game at the beginning of his career but he fell in love with the three pointer. It looks pretty amazing when his shot is rolling but he's been a three pointer or try and finish with a layup player for the past 2-3 years it seems. It's why he's inconsistent and often throws up clunkers in the fourth quarters of big games.

Yes, because Ime preached the same analytics. So did Brad. The midrange jumper is a bad shot, everyone in the league is coached not to take it.

My casual observation is that it is absolutely the right strategy in the regular season. Because those drives end in baskets or fouls a lot of the time. In the playoffs, reach ins aren't being called and guys get stripped, lots of body contact not called, bumps and grabs and so we see turnovers. It's not just JT, Brown is the most obvious example, but I saw Butler losing the ball and Bam, and all of those were probably regular season fouls....or defenders not contesting because they'd draw a foul. Playoffs may need a different offensive approach.

 

[Kenny11]

Yes, because Ime preached the same analytics. So did Brad. The midrange jumper is a bad shot, everyone in the league is coached not to take it.

My casual observation is that it is absolutely the right strategy in the regular season. Because those drives end in baskets or fouls a lot of the time. In the playoffs, reach ins aren't being called and guys get stripped, lots of body contact not called, bumps and grabs and so we see turnovers. It's not just JT, Brown is the most obvious example, but I saw Butler losing the ball and Bam, and all of those were probably regular season fouls....or defenders not contesting because they'd draw a foul. Playoffs may need a different offensive approach.

No problem with taking a lot of threes if they are open. But in the playoffs you need to get shots near the hoop and hit midrange shots when defenses are taking away everything you want to go and getting away with more physicality

 

[superjohn]

Yes, because Ime preached the same analytics. So did Brad. The midrange jumper is a bad shot, everyone in the league is coached not to take it.

My casual observation is that it is absolutely the right strategy in the regular season. Because those drives end in baskets or fouls a lot of the time. In the playoffs, reach ins aren't being called and guys get stripped, lots of body contact not called, bumps and grabs and so we see turnovers. It's not just JT, Brown is the most obvious example, but I saw Butler losing the ball and Bam, and all of those were probably regular season fouls....or defenders not contesting because they'd draw a foul. Playoffs may need a different offensive approach.

It needs to be a part of your game, it always shows up when the games matter. It's why Tatum is often a disaster in the fourth quarter of these playoff games.

Being 100% analytics driven is dumber than dirt. Different sport but sounds like the Celtics have the same problems at the top the Yankees have.

 

[bendm]

Nuggets in 5

 

[HuskyHawk]

It needs to be a part of your game, it always shows up when the games matter. It's why Tatum is often a disaster in the fourth quarter of these playoff games.

Being 100% analytics driven is dumber than dirt. Different sport but sounds like the Celtics have the same problems at the top the Yankees have.

Well it hasn’t hurt Golden State, they do the same things. Comes down to executing. Boston missed wide open shots all night last night. Miami hit their shots, especially Martin. I don’t think the midrange J is the answer. Brown takes way too many of them.

They play tight. Especially the Jays, feeling all that pressure and they just don’t handle it. This collapse will make it worse next year unless they get somebody in who changes their mentality.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Well it hasn’t hurt Golden State, they do the same things. Comes down to executing. Boston missed wide open shots all night last night. Miami hit their shots, especially Martin. I don’t think the midrange J is the answer. Brown takes way too many of them.

They play tight. Especially the Jays, feeling all that pressure and they just don’t handle it. This collapse will make it worse next year unless they get somebody in who changes their mentality.

Golden State is a rare outlier because they quite literally have the best shooters of all time. They should be removed from the examples of why the 3 point system works because it’s unreasonable to think you’ll have the best shooters of all time.

Also, 4th quarter shot chart of Miami vs Celtics

 

[auror]

Golden State is a rare outlier because they quite literally have the best shooters of all time. They should be removed from the examples of why the 3 point system works because it’s unreasonable to think you’ll have the best shooters of all time.

Also, 4th quarter shot chart of Miami vs Celtics View attachment 88576

The Celtics were already up by a bunch in the 4th. A losing team should take more 3s near the end of the game, to increase variance and hope for a run of makes.

The Heat won because they shot 50% from 3, not because they got into the paint more. The Celtics scored more 2 pointes than the Heat in the 2nd quarter. But the Heat pulled away because they went 6/9 from 3.

 

[superjohn]

Well it hasn’t hurt Golden State, they do the same things. Comes down to executing. Boston missed wide open shots all night last night. Miami hit their shots, especially Martin. I don’t think the midrange J is the answer. Brown takes way too many of them.

They play tight. Especially the Jays, feeling all that pressure and they just don’t handle it. This collapse will make it worse next year unless they get somebody in who changes their mentality.

Golden State has far and away the best three point shooting duo in the history of the NBA, they're the reason the entire league hoists so many threes now and the reason a team like Boston lives and dies by the three. It makes sense when you have the greatest three point shooter of all-time and a top 4 shooter of all-time. It doesn't make sense for the Celtics to only play that way.

Celtics have too much talent to live and die with Tatum and Brown missing 23 of their last 25 threes. The team shot the three horribly the game before and were lucky to make a game 7 behind a miracle finish, last night they weren't so lucky. When you have that much talent your entire game shouldn't be based on the three.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The Celtics were already up by a bunch in the 4th. A losing team should take more 3s near the end of the game, to increase variance and hope for a run of makes.

The Heat won because they shot 50% from 3, not because they got into the paint more. The Celtics scored more 2 pointes than the Heat in the 2nd quarter. But the Heat pulled away because they went 6/9 from 3.

See, this is where I have to say forget what statistics say. You make runs by stringer together good shots and good offense. Not by shooting 3s. Jacking up the worst shot in basketball is not a sustainable strategy. Simply getting good shots wherever they are on the court is and taking what the defense gives you.

The Heat shot 14 less three pointers than the Celtics so it’s not like they relied on that shot.

Celtics have the most three pointers attempted in the playoffs by about 170 attempts. Even on a per game average, the only team that shot more was the Warriors. Nobody can win that way and there is no other great star that is coached to play that way outside of the splash bros.

 

[HooperScooper]

Yes, because Ime preached the same analytics. So did Brad. The midrange jumper is a bad shot, everyone in the league is coached not to take it.

Well I guess Jimmy Butler doesn't listen because he took a ton of post up baseline jumpers in the series. And he's moving on to the NBA Finals.

 

[HuskyBaggins]

So Tatum and Brown are above criticism, they lost the last 3 years with 3 different Head Coach’s.

Exactly. Thinking you need the 4th new coach in 4 years to fix things is beyond insane

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well I guess Jimmy Butler doesn't listen because he took a ton of post up baseline jumpers in the series. And he's moving on to the NBA Finals.

He missed most of them. They are moving on because Martin took and made a ton of 3s

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

He missed most of them. They are moving on because Martin took and made a ton of 3s

Martin was 11-16 from the field and 4-6 from three. He actually made more mid range shots than threes.

Only one player on the Heat shot more 3s than 2s and that was Straus. Every single Celtic shot more 3s than 2s except for Brown, Tatum, and Rob.

 

[HooperScooper]

He missed most of them. They are moving on because Martin took and made a ton of 3s

It seemed he was money on those mid-range shots on the baseline all series. Someone have a shot chart for him during the 7 game series? Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed almost every time he got to those spots on the baseline he would make a shot.

 

[navery12]

It is truly amazing after the masterclass of an offense we just watched UConn run all season that anyone can be this adamant about a team taking more mid-range shots

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

It seemed he was money on those mid-range shots on the baseline all series. Someone have a shot chart for him during the 7 game series? Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed almost every time he got to those spots on the baseline he would make a shot

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