Legal Advice on a new house

[Pgh2Storrs]

I apologize for the OT thread, but I’m a first time home owner in need of some advice…

My wife and I closed on the house on 6/4 and immediately got pulled into a dispute between the previous owner and the neighbor.

There’s a retaining wall on one side of the backyard that the neighbor has been complaining about for years and, when they saw the home was for sale, he wrote letters to the previous owners and the realtors selling the property stating that it needed to be fixed and/or disclosed in the sale that the wall was in violation of city code. In addition to the letters, he opened a case with the city of Pittsburgh in which they cited the previous owners for the wall being in disrepair and pieces laying in his yard. The case was closed prior to closing, but the wall was never fixed. The inspector closed the case because neither the previous owner nor the neighbor gave them permission to be on their property to view the wall so they viewed it from the street and closed the case based upon there being no visible pieces laying in his yard but did not inspect the actual condition of the wall. We were given a copy of the case closure prior to closing on the house but within the Seller’s disclosure form, nothing was noted about the wall being an issue or any violations.

The neighbor showed up while we were painting last weekend to complain about the wall and subsequently called the city to inquire why the case was closed. We met with the inspectors this week at which point they agreed that the wall had not been adequately repaired but since they closed the previous case, any new citations would be in our name since we now own the property. The neighbor realizes this is screwing us, but asked that the case be reopened in an effort to try to pressure the previous owners.

As far as things going in our favor, we have the letters the neighbor wrote to the previous owner/realtors asking that the wall be fixed/disclosed prior to sale, a letter from the previous owners to the neighbor stating that money would be allocated during closing to fix the wall (there was no money/mention of this), the Seller’s disclosure where there was no mention of any issue, and the city inspectors who stated they would testify in our favor if we chose to pursue civil action.

Our real estate agent has reached out to the seller’s agent with this information but we have yet to hear back. Assuming they refuse to address this, I wanted to get opinions as to if it is worth it to pursue a civil case against the previous owners?

 

[BackAftaThis]

If the wall was in violation of code then how were you granted title to the house? The town should have made the previous owners fix it before they were allowed to pass title, no? If the town closed the case with the previous owners and the house closing went through I think you’d just be wasting time and money going after the sellers. Sounds like you just have a dick neighbor.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

If the wall was in violation of code then how were you granted title to the house? The town should have made the previous owners fix it before they were allowed to pass title, no? If the town closed the case with the previous owners and the house closing went through I think you’d just be wasting time and money going after the sellers. Sounds like you just have a dick neighbor.

That’s the infuriating part. The violations were never fixed but, because the inspectors were never given authority to view the wall from either the neighbors or the previous owners property, they closed the case based on viewing the wall from the street which is a side view from probably 25-30 yards away. Essentially they did a half assed job and never should have closed the initial case but they claim they cannot reopen it. When we met with them this week they agreed that the violations in the initial citation had not been fixed

 

[WestHartHusk]

How does the neighbor get a second bite at the apple after not allowing the inspector on property? Not by area, but there has to a procedural defense to tell your neighbor to F off.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like your new neighbor is a horse's patoot.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

How does the neighbor get a second bite at the apple after not allowing the inspector on property? Not by area, but there has to a procedural defense to tell your neighbor to F off.

He claims he told them to contact him so that he could meet with the inspectors the first time around but they said that they were not notified of that request. Again, this all comes back to the city inspectors doing a lazy job the first time and as a result we’re now in the middle of it.

Cosmetically the wall looks like hell and it was on our list of things to address but, since we had no idea it was in violation of code, it wasn’t on the top of our list. Now with all this going on, we are forced to deal with it now

 

[HitDog]

Let's get a pic of wall up.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Let's get a pic of wall up.

And the neighbor. Need full context.

 

[SubbaBub]

You can sue the previous owner or fix the wall. Fixing rhe wall is probably cheaper.

Welcome to homeownership.

P.s., This isn't about the neighbor (but good luck with that). It is about you and the city building inspector.

Good news is you can probably drag it out as long a you want so.long as there is not imminent risk of failure. Again the building inspector will have the final say in this.

If the collapse damages your neighbors property, you could be liable.

This is why we have building codes. Without knowing the exact conditions, my guess is this is cosmetic. Walls especially old, low ones last a long time and may look ugly but are perfectly safe. Obviously, depends on the type of wall and the soil conditions.

 

[CL82]

And the neighbor. Need full context.

And his wife... again for context.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

Let's get a pic of wall up.

That’s from above the wall earlier this week

 

[HuskyFich]

I would tell him to meet you in court. You have all the paper trails in your favor and it’s nobody’s decision except a judge to determine if someone did their job correctly (county assessor). On top of that, title was cleared for the sale, an open case was closed by the county, and the only person not happy with the decision is your neighbor. The process would be long and annoying for him, so I’d make him sweat it.

(your neighbor doesn’t want to go to court)

 

[SubbaBub]

That's not wall, it's a step. More of an eyesore than a danger, which I suspect was the problem with the last guy.

I'd ignore it for now, save up some money and have a landscaper turn it into a slope and plant as many screening plants as you can fit. No more ugly wall you don't have to look at your neighbor.

May be worth investing in a licensed surveyor to mark the property line so you don't have to deal with the neighbor.

But seriously, screw that guy. I wouldn't be surprised it the wall is on his property and therefore his problem.

 

[CL82]

View attachment 68104

That’s from above the wall earlier this week

Well, there’s certainly no way for anyone to have foreseen that that wall was unstable.

So just an idea, but does it make sense to go over and talk to him and say “hey I’m sympathetic but I just bought a new house and I’m completely stretched. Look I want to be a good neighbor, if it’s really bothering you I will split the cost with you to fix it even though we don’t have the money for that just now.”

That way you earn a marker from the guy and he pays for half the cost to do some thing you want to do eventually anyway. If he says that he doesn’t want to pay 1/2 for it then you can say yeah we just don’t have the money right now.

Just a thought.

 

[huskiesouth]

Wondering what involvement the City could/should have, assuming there are Certificates of Occupancy for both houses and no open Building Permits, unless the "violations" are a critical, material health hazard (Health Dept.) or a zoning (Zoning Enforcement) issue the City should not be involved in an disagreement between neighbors.

 

[uchusky32]

That's not wall, it's a step. More of an eyesore than a danger, which I suspect was the problem with the last guy.

I'd ignore it for now, save up some money and have a landscaper turn it into a slope and plant as many screening plants as you can fit. No more ugly wall you don't have to look at your neighbor.

May be worth investing in a licensed surveyor to mark the property line so you don't have to deal with the neighbor.

But seriously, screw that guy. I wouldn't be surprised it the wall is on his property and therefore his problem.

Not necessarily the same. But my dad put up a wooden fence between us and noisy annoying mad at the world neighbors when I was a kid. Put it up reversed/inside out so the nice side faced us and the structual side faced them.

 

[DCHuskyFan]

If your house is at the top of the slope, I would remove the wall and let it slope down so the lower slope homeowner get some nice water runoff. The upper slope homeowner is not responsible for runoff to the lower homeowner as long as it is a natural condition. I dealt with this in FL as a lower slope homeowner, and I had to put in a French drain with catch basins so my lanai and pool area didn’t flood every time it rained.

 

[CL82]

Not necessarily the same. But my dad put up a wooden fence between us and noisy annoying mad at the world neighbors when I was a kid. Put it up reversed/inside out so the nice side faced us and the structual side faced them.

There’s actually an ordinance in my town that prevents this after a spate of spite fences.

 

[huskiesouth]

If your house is at the top of the slope, I would remove the wall and let it slope down so the lower slope homeowner get some nice water runoff. The upper slope homeowner is not responsible for runoff to the lower homeowner as long as it is a natural condition. I dealt with this in FL as a lower slope homeowner, and I had to put in a French drain with catch basins so my lanai and pool area didn’t flood every time it rained.

You had a slope in Florida, wow, most of this glorious state is flatter than a pancake.

Your idea about re-shaping the slope makes sense as long as the other owner signs off.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for your input. Very much appreciated

 

[huskiesouth]

There’s actually an ordinance in my town that prevents this after a spate of spite fences.

There is a statute in CT dealing with so-called 'spite fences'. "Good fences make good neighbors" - Not.

Put one of my kids through college representing a homeowner in a property line dispute in Greenwich, spite fence, spotlights, was always waiting for a call from the police that actual war had broken out, the lawyers made out, the neighbors were still left looking at each other.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

That's not wall, it's a step. More of an eyesore than a danger, which I suspect was the problem with the last guy.

I'd ignore it for now, save up some money and have a landscaper turn it into a slope and plant as many screening plants as you can fit. No more ugly wall you don't have to look at your neighbor.

May be worth investing in a licensed surveyor to mark the property line so you don't have to deal with the neighbor.

But seriously, screw that guy. I wouldn't be surprised it the wall is on his property and therefore his problem.

He claims that it falls on our property, but my father in law insists that a survey is being done before we spend a dime or put any work into it ourselves. Our intention is to put a fence up so that is also a consideration in what we’re doing with the wall

Wondering what involvement the City could/should have, assuming there are Certificates of Occupancy for both houses and no open Building Permits, unless the "violations" are a critical, material health hazard (Health Dept.) or a zoning (Zoning Enforcement) issue the City should not be involved in an disagreement between neighbors.

They told us they won’t make a legal decision, but they also said that they’ll testify in our favor should we decide to pursue this in court. The entire conversation with them was frustrating as they kept referencing the first case as being close in “good faith” which blows my mind.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Well, there’s certainly no way for anyone to have foreseen that that wall was unstable.

So just an idea, but does it make sense to go over and talk to him and say “hey I’m sympathetic but I just bought a new house and I’m completely stretched. Look I want to be a good neighbor, if it’s really bothering you I will split the cost with you to fix it even though we don’t have the money for that just now.”

That way you earn a marker from the guy and he pays for half the cost to do some thing you want to do eventually anyway. If he says that he doesn’t want to pay 1/2 for it then you can say yeah we just don’t have the money right now.

Just a thought.

yeah do this first before

this

I would tell him to meet you in court. You have all the paper trails in your favor and it’s nobody’s decision except a judge to determine if someone did their job correctly (county assessor). On top of that, title was cleared for the sale, an open case was closed by the county, and the only person not happy with the decision is your neighbor. The process would be long and annoying for him, so I’d make him sweat it.

(your neighbor doesn’t want to go to court)

You don’t want to be adversarial with a brand new neighbor with whom you will sharing a quarter acre for years and years. Try to meet them in the middle and if there’s pushback they chose to make things adversarial. Then you say nah let’s let a judge sort it out

 

[huskiesouth]

He claims that it falls on our property, but my father in law insists that a survey is being done before we spend a dime or put any work into it ourselves. Our intention is to put a fence up so that is also a consideration in what we’re doing with the wall



They told us they won’t make a legal decision, but they also said that they’ll testify in our favor should we decide to pursue this in court. The entire conversation with them was frustrating as they kept referencing the first case as being close in “good faith” which blows my mind.

Getting a survey is a must. FWIW it this were my property I would tell my unhappy neighbor to put together a written plan and if you approve it he's welcome to come onto the property and have the work done at his cost using a licensed contractor. Otherwise you'll put up a fence of your choosing slightly uphill from the wall, leaving him with a view of the fence and the wall.

 

[Dean Wormer]

He claims he told them to contact him so that he could meet with the inspectors the first time around but they said that they were not notified of that request. Again, this all comes back to the city inspectors doing a lazy job the first time and as a result we’re now in the middle of it.

Cosmetically the wall looks like hell and it was on our list of things to address but, since we had no idea it was in violation of code, it wasn’t on the top of our list. Now with all this going on, we are forced to deal with it now

Like everybody else this looks like a new neighbor problem to me.
There are ways to put a legal cloud on a title which might’ve postponed your closing until this was dealt with. He sounds like a horses patoot. Good luck.