Jacobs Takes On $$ and The WNBA | The Boneyard

Jacobs Takes On $$ and The WNBA

RockyMTblue2

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Gotta give Jeff Jacobs an A for effort in taking on the issue of what to do, what can be done.

Don't expect satisfaction.


www.ctpost.com/sports/jeffjacobs/article/Jeff-Jacobs-Stewie-other-women-s-stars-13783253.php


"What agitates me is the notion that the greatest American women’s professional players owe something to a summer league masquerading as a be-all and end-all. At this point, 20 years into the WNBA, I’d even argue the top veteran players don’t owe anything to American audiences."
 
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It is asinine to compare NBA to WNBA salaries. Not that Women players are not worth it, most because the Fans of WNBA aren't worth it. Views are required to fill the ratio between WNBA viewers and NBA, where the money really is.
Elite player, IMO, play the WNBA as a show case for their talent overseas. Older players are opting to play only in Overseas Teams. The body can withstand just so much running and jumping.
Blame the Fans who don't fill seats, or are viewing TV games. When those number meet or exceed the NBA, I believe, the Salaries will be equal.
As to the traveling and being away from home--other professions require that at lesser salaries.
 

DefenseBB

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Basically Jacobs is advocating that the NBA subsidize the WNBA for the good of the game. If Silver and the rest of the two leagues hierarchy actually agree, it would have to be all the NBA teams who kick in $200k (30 teams) that the 12 WNBA teams would use to pay up. The 30x$200=$6 mil or $500k per team to use.
The real question is would each NBA owner do that as a “marketing” component for their league...not so sure.
This is not an equal rights issue (NBA vs. WNBA) just like Baseball salaries vs. Softball salaries (BTW-there is a professional softball league) and his bringing that aspect up in the article is just stupid as many other non-revenue generating sports have great athletes who are not compensated by their sport. Heck, the greatest Olympian (Michael Phelps) of all times didn’t have a professional league to make a living. Luckily USA Swimming and Madison Avenue more than paid him handsome fees. His counterpart is Katie Ledecky who likewise can’t make money professionally so, she too must be supported by USA Swimming and with luck, endorsements. That’s the nature of lower fan support sports.
 

bballnut90

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People need to stop comparing WNBA salaries to NBA salaries. If money is the biggest motivating factor, players simply should skip the WNBA and focus on playing overseas. Or join their overseas/WNBA team late to give their bodies rest.

I agree it'd be nice if the NBA paid more to fund the WNBA and greater prioritization should be made developing women's sports, but at the end of the day the WNBA isn't a charity case nor is it the NBA's problem. Should we pressure the MLB to provide better salaries for a pro-softball league? Or the NHL to fund the women's pro league? How about the MLS? What people consistently fail to recognize is WNBA players make WAY more than almost any other female pros. The ones who make it past their rookie contracts rake in around 100k for a summer of basketball. Compare that to the average 20 something in student debt trying to climb the corporate ladder.

The biggest issue for the W is that very few fans take the league seriously and it's viewed as a laughing stock by casual sports fans. Anyone who actually watches the game can see the quality of basketball is high and the players are very good.....the league needs to find a way to market itself better, get more viewership and improve its reputation. Not sure of the best way to do that but asking the NBA to step up or comparing salaries to NBA teams isn't a viable solution.
 
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People need to stop comparing WNBA salaries to NBA salaries. If money is the biggest motivating factor, players simply should skip the WNBA and focus on playing overseas. Or join their overseas/WNBA team late to give their bodies rest.

I agree it'd be nice if the NBA paid more to fund the WNBA and greater prioritization should be made developing women's sports, but at the end of the day the WNBA isn't a charity case nor is it the NBA's problem. Should we pressure the MLB to provide better salaries for a pro-softball league? Or the NHL to fund the women's pro league? How about the MLS? What people consistently fail to recognize is WNBA players make WAY more than almost any other female pros. The ones who make it past their rookie contracts rake in around 100k for a summer of basketball. Compare that to the average 20 something in student debt trying to climb the corporate ladder.

The biggest issue for the W is that very few fans take the league seriously and it's viewed as a laughing stock by casual sports fans. Anyone who actually watches the game can see the quality of basketball is high and the players are very good.....the league needs to find a way to market itself better, get more viewership and improve its reputation. Not sure of the best way to do that but asking the NBA to step up or comparing salaries to NBA teams isn't a viable solution.
I have never understood the comparison to the NBA. Every time I hear these players and fans mention equal pay, I'm like where is this money coming from? The NBA brings in billions of dollars every year and the WNBA doesn't even make a profit. The players should spend the offseason marketing and getting fans from surrounding areas to support them, and once they have the fan support, do something that will make them want to come back the next game.
 

psconn

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I have many more questions than I have answers on this subject.

Many look to the overseas leagues as some kind of example of what the W could do. I've watched a bunch of overseas games in different leagues and I see sparse attendance in small gyms. The exception being some playoff games... better attended, but still in small venues. If they aren't drawing live, could they really have lucrative TV deals. If they are on TV, is it state-run not-for-profit TV?

Also, I hear a lot about these gigantic salaries... I'd like know what the salary range and the median salary is in each league. I'd also like to see a league-by-league attendance analysis.

I suspect that while D and Sue were making 7 figures, living in a posh villa and being limo'd and private-jetted around by their oligarch boss (who was later assassinated), many of their league-mates were struggling on subsistence or less pay. Those numbers have no chance of being made public, of course.

From the Jacob's article..."Whether it’s because of basketball-crazy oligarchs or state-sponsored initiatives, the best players can make 10 times the money in Russia, in Turkey and in China." So we expect the W to compete with that?

I would be very surprised if any of these leagues are financial successes in the western capitalist sense. I would really appreciate an article researching that aspect.

About half (?) of the WNBA teams have no NBA affiliate, so are they at a disadvantage in terms of NBA support?

The negotiations over the next WNBA CBA will be interesting with the players becoming more strident in their demands. The outcome could potentially be very disappointing for fans of the W. I hope the players and the league(s) can find a success path.

Article from last year... The WNBA -- Or The NBA -- Should Pay Its Players More
 
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CamrnCrz1974

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People need to stop comparing WNBA salaries to NBA salaries. If money is the biggest motivating factor, players simply should skip the WNBA and focus on playing overseas. Or join their overseas/WNBA team late to give their bodies rest.

It is relevant to compare the percentage of revenue that goes to the players in the WNBA vs. the NBA. It is also relevant to compare how that has changed for NBA players over time.

But yes, in terms of raw dollars/numbers, there is not place to compare salaries.

I agree it'd be nice if the NBA paid more to fund the WNBA and greater prioritization should be made developing women's sports, but at the end of the day the WNBA isn't a charity case nor is it the NBA's problem. Should we pressure the MLB to provide better salaries for a pro-softball league? Or the NHL to fund the women's pro league? How about the MLS?

The NBA has funded the WNBA very well for years. And it is not like funding the G League, where players may come up to play in the NBA; no WNBA player will play in the NBA.

Also unlike the G League -- which has 27 teams, all of which are either single-affiliated or owned by an NBA team -- the WNBA only has certain franchises still owned by NBA teams -- Phoenix Mercury, Minnesota Lynx, Indiana Fever, plus the Washington Mystics (same ownership group, Monumental Sports & Entertainment) and the New York Liberty (previously owned by MSG Company; sold in 2019 to Joseph Tsai, the minority owner of the Brooklyn Nets).

What people consistently fail to recognize is WNBA players make WAY more than almost any other female pros. The ones who make it past their rookie contracts rake in around 100k for a summer of basketball. Compare that to the average 20 something in student debt trying to climb the corporate ladder.

With all due respect, @bballnut90 , I have to disagree.

There are 144 players in the WNBA. In 2017, the average WNBA salary was $71,635; in 2018, that number was closer to $75,000. In 2019, the highest paid players will be earning between $115,000 and $119,000.

As of April 22, 2019 -- which is just shy of four months and which is comparable to a WNBA season -- tennis has:

-- 150 players who have earned at least $72,000 for 2019.
-- 122 players who have earned at least $100,000 for 2019.
-- 98 players who have earned at least $122,000 for 2019.
-- 76 players who have earned at least $150,000 for 2019.
-- 57 players who have earned at least $200,000 for 2019.
-- 33 players who have earned at least $300,000 for 2019.
-- 19 players who have earned at least $500,000 for 2019.

WTA YTD Prize Money (as of April 22, 2019)

While the average salary of WNBA players for 2017 was $71,635 and approaching $75,000 for 2018, the WTA had at least 150 players earn $72,000 this year.

Now, the LPGA might be more comparable to the WNBA, in terms of compensation for approximately four months (link is to LPGA prize money to date). But in terms of being highly compensated as professional athletes, tennis players are at the top.

And if you look at ESPN's 2019 world fame rankings, the top female athletes on the list (and the only ones to break through a male-dominated list) are all tennis players -- Serena Williams (#17), Maria Sharapova (#37), and Sania Mirza (#93). The 2018 list had a good number more women on the list, but most of them were tennis players.

I might amend your statement to say, "WNBA players make WAY more than almost any other female pros [in terms of female athletes in professional team sports]"

The biggest issue for the W is that very few fans take the league seriously and it's viewed as a laughing stock by casual sports fans. Anyone who actually watches the game can see the quality of basketball is high and the players are very good.....the league needs to find a way to market itself better, get more viewership and improve its reputation. Not sure of the best way to do that but asking the NBA to step up or comparing salaries to NBA teams isn't a viable solution.

You ask the questions that the WNBA has been asking for years -- and that women's sports have been asking in terms of an overly saturated and crowded marketplace.

Yes, the casual sports fan will not tune in to watch the WNBA (maybe a playoff game, but that is likely it). And I will agree that unlike tennis, women's basketball suffers in a way that other female sports do not, in terms of how it appears on television and the inevitable comparison to men. Whereas when the top women's tennis players play, it is usually with serves over 110 miles per hour, fast groundstrokes, competitive rallies, etc. Other than the speeds of serves and possibly speeds on groundstrokes, the differences between when the top women play as opposed to the top men are not so vast that the average sports fan thinks, "I could beat [insert female tennis player]. Because of the nature of the largely "under the rim" game, the casual sports fan can look at missed layups and think, "No way is she better than I am."

In terms of "respect," however, you see many NBA players/analysts discussing the league on sports talk shows and quite a few NBA players showing up at NBA games. This is a good thing, as it will slowly ingrain the idea of a professional women's basketball league into the sports consciousness.

Now, will the WNBA ever be as popular as the NBA or any of the Big Four professional sports? No. But could the WNBA carve out a market niche like MLS? Absolutely.

I have many more questions than I have answers on this subject.From the Jacob's article..."Whether it’s because of basketball-crazy oligarchs or state-sponsored initiatives, the best players can make 10 times the money in Russia, in Turkey and in China." So we expect the W to compete with that?

I would be very surprised if any of these leagues are financial successes in the western capitalist sense. I would really appreciate an article researching that aspect.

These teams/leagues are either state-sponsored or funded by rich owners not concerned with profit margins (perhaps there is some other benefit, such as tax breaks). But you correct, in terms of any capitalistic sense (or western capitalistic sense), this would not be a successful business venture.

About half (?) of the WNBA teams have no NBA affiliate, so are they at a disadvantage in terms of NBA support?

The negotiations over the next WNBA CBA will be interesting with the players becoming more strident in their demands. The outcome could potentially be very disappointing for fans of the W. I hope the players and the league(s) can find a success path.

I have had a number of discussions with @ucbart and @EricLA about this topic. #BestGroupTextEver

As only 5 of 12 WNBA teams are owned by their NBA counterparts or have the same ownership group as NBA teams, there cannot be things like charter flights. That makes commercial flight (with lines, uncomfortable seats, delays, etc.) a fact of life for WNBA teams.

The players know (or should know) that a strike or work stoppage would be the death of the league. So the players should be firm but with reasonable demands. For example:

  • Eliminate back-to-back games. Without charter flights, commercial travel is uncomfortable and perilous (in terms of delays and scheduling). While this may be challenging in World Championship years, it can -- and should -- be done.
  • Upgrade the rookie pay scale. In 2018, the salary cap was $976,300. There is leeway there to increase the rookie pay scale. Alternatively, the players could push to have rookie contracts with fewer years. As an example, A'ja Wilson was picked #1 in the 2018 WNBA Draft and earned $52,564 for 2018. Because of the four-year rookie contract, she will only earn $67,020 in 2021, her fourth WNBA season. Limit the rookie contracts to two years, with a middle tier between rookie contract and veteran deal. Or just limit rookie contracts to three years, with players eligible for the veterans' salary jumps beginning with their fourth season.
  • Change the offseason compensation limits. The WNBA salary cap rules limit what a team can pay its players in the offseason. The rule was designed to prevent cap circumvention (I believe the total amount is $50,000). This is why Kristi Toliver is only earning $10,000 as an NBA assistant coach for the Washington Wizads, as Elena Delle Donne stayed in the US and is getting the bulk of the Washington Mystics' $50,000 (and since the Mystics and Wizards have the same ownership group, there is no way around this). If this amount is increased, this will allow players to not just skip going overseas, but also have them stay and work in their respective WNBA municipalities to help with community events, try to promote season ticket sales, etc.

And the WNBA should be proactive with its own sponsorship/marketing ideas:
  • Start brokering sponsorship deals with airlines to either potentially get charter flights or at least first class designations for cross-country travel).
  • Consider having WNBA double-headers in cities where there are not WNBA franchises, but where there is guaranteed to be a large turnout (especially if a former local college star is involved) -- Knoxville, TN; Columbia, SC; Kansas City, MO; Louisville, KY, etc.
Also -- and I simply cannot stress this enough -- the WNBA needs to explore particular ownership groups, as they did with the Las Vegas Aces and the Connecticut Sun before that, as their respective costs are not just relative, but lower than those of other franchises.
  • With Las Vegas and Connecticut, the owners of the WNBA franchises (Mohegan Sun for CT, MGM Resorts International for LV) also own the respective arenas in which those franchises play (Mohegan Sun Arena for CT, Mandalay Bay Events Center for LV).
  • And since both of these are attached to/part of casinos/resorts, there is already the "infrastructure" in place -- e.g., food/beverage/concessions, security, etc.
  • In addition, the ownership group is not paying rent for the arena (as other franchises have to do), as it would be paying rent to itself.
  • As a result, not only are the costs of operation for these two franchises is significantly less that the costs of operation for other WNBA franchises, but the ability to make a profit is much easier.
  • And even if attendance is not a huge percentage of capacity, if the attendees for WNBA games stay at the resort, spend time in the casino, etc., the franchise can recover any costs that way.
Just a few random thoughts from me, CamrnCrz1974.
 

bballnut90

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It is relevant to compare the percentage of revenue that goes to the players in the WNBA vs. the NBA. It is also relevant to compare how that has changed for NBA players over time.

But yes, in terms of raw dollars/numbers, there is not place to compare salaries.



The NBA has funded the WNBA very well for years. And it is not like funding the G League, where players may come up to play in the NBA; no WNBA player will play in the NBA.

Also unlike the G League -- which has 27 teams, all of which are either single-affiliated or owned by an NBA team -- the WNBA only has certain franchises still owned by NBA teams -- Phoenix Mercury, Minnesota Lynx, Indiana Fever, plus the Washington Mystics (same ownership group, Monumental Sports & Entertainment) and the New York Liberty (previously owned by MSG Company; sold in 2019 to Joseph Tsai, the minority owner of the Brooklyn Nets).



With all due respect, @bballnut90 , I have to disagree.

There are 144 players in the WNBA. In 2017, the average WNBA salary was $71,635; in 2018, that number was closer to $75,000. In 2019, the highest paid players will be earning between $115,000 and $119,000.

As of April 22, 2019 -- which is just shy of four months and which is comparable to a WNBA season -- tennis has:

-- 150 players who have earned at least $72,000 for 2019.
-- 122 players who have earned at least $100,000 for 2019.
-- 98 players who have earned at least $122,000 for 2019.
-- 76 players who have earned at least $150,000 for 2019.
-- 57 players who have earned at least $200,000 for 2019.
-- 33 players who have earned at least $300,000 for 2019.
-- 19 players who have earned at least $500,000 for 2019.

WTA YTD Prize Money (as of April 22, 2019)

While the average salary of WNBA players for 2017 was $71,635 and approaching $75,000 for 2018, the WTA had at least 150 players earn $72,000 this year.

Now, the LPGA might be more comparable to the WNBA, in terms of compensation for approximately four months (link is to LPGA prize money to date). But in terms of being highly compensated as professional athletes, tennis players are at the top.

And if you look at ESPN's 2019 world fame rankings, the top female athletes on the list (and the only ones to break through a male-dominated list) are all tennis players -- Serena Williams (#17), Maria Sharapova (#37), and Sania Mirza (#93). The 2018 list had a good number more women on the list, but most of them were tennis players.

I might amend your statement to say, "WNBA players make WAY more than almost any other female pros [in terms of female athletes in professional team sports]"



You ask the questions that the WNBA has been asking for years -- and that women's sports have been asking in terms of an overly saturated and crowded marketplace.

Yes, the casual sports fan will not tune in to watch the WNBA (maybe a playoff game, but that is likely it). And I will agree that unlike tennis, women's basketball suffers in a way that other female sports do not, in terms of how it appears on television and the inevitable comparison to men. Whereas when the top women's tennis players play, it is usually with serves over 110 miles per hour, fast groundstrokes, competitive rallies, etc. Other than the speeds of serves and possibly speeds on groundstrokes, the differences between when the top women play as opposed to the top men are not so vast that the average sports fan thinks, "I could beat [insert female tennis player]. Because of the nature of the largely "under the rim" game, the casual sports fan can look at missed layups and think, "No way is she better than I am."

In terms of "respect," however, you see many NBA players/analysts discussing the league on sports talk shows and quite a few NBA players showing up at NBA games. This is a good thing, as it will slowly ingrain the idea of a professional women's basketball league into the sports consciousness.

Now, will the WNBA ever be as popular as the NBA or any of the Big Four professional sports? No. But could the WNBA carve out a market niche like MLS? Absolutely.



These teams/leagues are either state-sponsored or funded by rich owners not concerned with profit margins (perhaps there is some other benefit, such as tax breaks). But you correct, in terms of any capitalistic sense (or western capitalistic sense), this would not be a successful business venture.



I have had a number of discussions with @ucbart and @EricLA about this topic. #BestGroupTextEver

As only 5 of 12 WNBA teams are owned by their NBA counterparts or have the same ownership group as NBA teams, there cannot be things like charter flights. That makes commercial flight (with lines, uncomfortable seats, delays, etc.) a fact of life for WNBA teams.

The players know (or should know) that a strike or work stoppage would be the death of the league. So the players should be firm but with reasonable demands. For example:

  • Eliminate back-to-back games. Without charter flights, commercial travel is uncomfortable and perilous (in terms of delays and scheduling). While this may be challenging in World Championship years, it can -- and should -- be done.
  • Upgrade the rookie pay scale. In 2018, the salary cap was $976,300. There is leeway there to increase the rookie pay scale. Alternatively, the players could push to have rookie contracts with fewer years. As an example, A'ja Wilson was picked #1 in the 2018 WNBA Draft and earned $52,564 for 2018. Because of the four-year rookie contract, she will only earn $67,020 in 2021, her fourth WNBA season. Limit the rookie contracts to two years, with a middle tier between rookie contract and veteran deal. Or just limit rookie contracts to three years, with players eligible for the veterans' salary jumps beginning with their fourth season.
  • Change the offseason compensation limits. The WNBA salary cap rules limit what a team can pay its players in the offseason. The rule was designed to prevent cap circumvention (I believe the total amount is $50,000). This is why Kristi Toliver is only earning $10,000 as an NBA assistant coach for the Washington Wizads, as Elena Delle Donne stayed in the US and is getting the bulk of the Washington Mystics' $50,000 (and since the Mystics and Wizards have the same ownership group, there is no way around this). If this amount is increased, this will allow players to not just skip going overseas, but also have them stay and work in their respective WNBA municipalities to help with community events, try to promote season ticket sales, etc.

And the WNBA should be proactive with its own sponsorship/marketing ideas:
  • Start brokering sponsorship deals with airlines to either potentially get charter flights or at least first class designations for cross-country travel).
  • Consider having WNBA double-headers in cities where there are not WNBA franchises, but where there is guaranteed to be a large turnout (especially if a former local college star is involved) -- Knoxville, TN; Columbia, SC; Kansas City, MO; Louisville, KY, etc.
Also -- and I simply cannot stress this enough -- the WNBA needs to explore particular ownership groups, as they did with the Las Vegas Aces and the Connecticut Sun before that, as their respective costs are not just relative, but lower than those of other franchises.
  • With Las Vegas and Connecticut, the owners of the WNBA franchises (Mohegan Sun for CT, MGM Resorts International for LV) also own the respective arenas in which those franchises play (Mohegan Sun Arena for CT, Mandalay Bay Events Center for LV).
  • And since both of these are attached to/part of casinos/resorts, there is already the "infrastructure" in place -- e.g., food/beverage/concessions, security, etc.
  • In addition, the ownership group is not paying rent for the arena (as other franchises have to do), as it would be paying rent to itself.
  • As a result, not only are the costs of operation for these two franchises is significantly less that the costs of operation for other WNBA franchises, but the ability to make a profit is much easier.
  • And even if attendance is not a huge percentage of capacity, if the attendees for WNBA games stay at the resort, spend time in the casino, etc., the franchise can recover any costs that way.
Just a few random thoughts from me, CamrnCrz1974.

Really great post, Cam. Love a lot of these ideas. Especially the ones regarding ownership groups and updating player demands. You're always on point with your assessments and I hope higher ups are considering most of these.

The only part I question is comparing revenue percentage. I think you have to factor in fixed costs before calculating the percentage. Since revenue is so high in the NBA, their fixed costs (rental space, maintaining arenas, travel costs, etc) are a fraction of what the league generates in total revenue. In the WNBA, a much higher percentage of their revenue goes to cover fixed costs, so there isn't much left over to pay players/owners.
 

CamrnCrz1974

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The only part I question is comparing revenue percentage. I think you have to factor in fixed costs before calculating the percentage. Since revenue is so high in the NBA, their fixed costs (rental space, maintaining arenas, travel costs, etc) are a fraction of what the league generates in total revenue. In the WNBA, a much higher percentage of their revenue goes to cover fixed costs, so there isn't much left over to pay players/owners.

I definitely agree with you about fixed costs, for the revenue percentage.

I should clarify when I discussed the NBA comparison. I was not saying that it should be equal to that of the NBA. The NBA is about 50 percent, in terms of revenue sharing. The goal would be to get WNBA players in the 30-33 percent range, not less than 25 percent (which is what has been reported as the figure).

This is also why ownership in Las Vegas and Connecticut have better opportunities to turn a profit. They own the arenas. They own the teams. They already employee the individuals who work security, run concessions, etc. A good amount of the cost of operations that other teams have to cover are expenses that Las Vegas and Connecticut do not have (which is why having those ownership groups was a boon for the WNBA).
 

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