Inappropriate touching

[vtcwbuff]

Can we have a civil thread about what is and what isn't appropriate touching as it relates to WCBB coaches and players? I'll start -

Coach puts his/her hand on the players lower back as he/she provides guidance as in a defense drill.

Team wins the Championship on a last minute shot. Coach gives the player a huge congrats hug.

Coach places his/her hand on top of a player's hip as they are having a sidelines discussion.

Player is near tears after missing a probable game winner. Coach puts his/her arm around the player to console her.

Coach gives player a congrats pat on the butt.

Player gives coach a pat on the butt.

[mod edit]

Would the gender of the coach matter?

Why do so many assume that "touching" is automatically sexual in nature?

How does a coach know if a player is uncomfortable if he/she isn't told? Should there be a team poll - who's comfortable, who's not and who relishes the attention? That way the coach would know.

 

[Geew1992]

There aren't any answers. Every player is different as to what they are or aren't comfortable with.

 

[Dokey]

As a coach of female teams, hugs, hands on shoulder or upper back are fine, but butt is off limits and frankly that includes both genders. The rule is if it happens to you and it makes you uncomfortable, then it is off limits.

 

[Golden Husky]

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description...and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..."

--US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, Jacobellis v. Ohio, 1964

The case involved obscenity in a film so it may not be directly on point but it's related and, yes, we all know inappropriate touching when we see it.

 

[Zinethar]

What is/was seen as appropriate has changed several times in the 50+ years since I started coaching. Maybe in reality it never actually did and just the openest did. When I started all of the posted things were deemed appropriate. I occasionally had players ask me to not do something because they weren't comfortable so I did not repeat. Then for a while all contact was forbidden. that produced many issues with some team members who needed that type interaction. Once i was aware that many people have different personal space requirements I made sure to ask permission before any contact with either gender. As for honest displays of emotion after a crucial win or the like I made sure the player initiated any contact. Maybe I was wrong but I never had any hidden agenda.

 

[Heytherego]

I think most know what is friendly and appropriate vs what is not. Kissing, butt slapping, hands near pelvic area is never acceptable. Most coaches know each of their players well enough to know if a hug is appropriate or not.

People in positions of power, especially men dealing with young females, have to be extremely careful and if they find themselves not knowing what is ok vs not, should refrain from any physical contact. Actually that should just go for all people; if you’re not sure what you’re about to do is inappropriate or has the chance of being interpreted that way just don’t do it.

 

[oldude]

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description...and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..."

--US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, Jacobellis v. Ohio, 1964

The case involved obscenity in a film so it may not be directly on point but it's related and, yes, we all know inappropriate touching when we see it.

I was thinking of the exact same quote after reading the OP.

 

[Waquoit]

The people doing the touching know if they are being appropriate. If you have to ask, it's inappropriate. It's not that tough.

 

[itsasport]

So, when UConn wins the championship this year, the coaches and players can't hug? Or. a player can't playfully slap her coaches butt?

You can not make general rules of behavior. It is entirely an individual thing as to the contact people appreciate or not.

If a player runs to a coach and clearly wants a hug, is the coach supposed to push him/her away, because why? Wouldn't the player feel really hurt at a great moment in their life?

I am really getting sick of the attitude that anyone has the right to control the behavior of others.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I am really getting sick of the attitude that anyone has the right to control the behavior of others.

No one is claiming "that anyone has the right to control the behavior of others." As always, you are free to do what you want, but not free from the consequences.

 

[Bama fan]

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description...and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..."

--US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, Jacobellis v. Ohio, 1964

The case involved obscenity in a film so it may not be directly on point but it's related and, yes, we all know inappropriate touching when we see it.

So obscenity is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak? To me the analogy is suspect. Physical touching is a far more egregious problem, even if the intention is well meaning. Each individual has their own personal limits. To me the gender is not so much an issue as the relative difference in stature or authority. The players must set their limits, and the coaches have to respect those limits. This is generally not problematic, and unfortunately arises when other issues are the real precipitating issue.

 

[Mdoggie]

Coached High School girls for years. Occasional hugs at banquets. No touching of any kind other than that.
gotta be careful. This maybe be for another discussion but my wife said she could tell which players and or moms had a crush on me. I guess women intuition?

 

[VaConnFan11]

I think it's like ... I can't put an exact definition to it, but I know it when I see it.

I don't think any touching during the course of a game should be considered inappropriate unless it is blatantly obvious.

 

[MainefanSC]

Humans and the human mind are very complicated. Coach/player interaction evolves over many hours, days, weeks and years. If the coach has any intuition at all, she/he knows the player(s) well enough to engage in appropriate contact in the context of the moment. Each individual has different boundaries and in the relationship, those boundaries become clear.
You may think I'm somewhat naive and that's OK. There are many men/women who take advantage of a young person's trust. That is inappropriate in any way shape or form.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Can we have a civil thread about what is and what isn't appropriate touching as it relates to WCBB coaches and players? I'll start -

STAYING IN BOUNDS
An NCAA Model Policy to Prevent Inappropriate Relationships Between Student-Athletes and Athletics Department Personnel
By Deborah L. Brake, J.D. and Mariah Burton Nelson, MPH, CAE

NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

www.ncaa.org

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

So, when UConn wins the championship this year, the coaches and players can't hug? Or. a player can't playfully slap her coaches butt?

You can not make general rules of behavior. It is entirely an individual thing as to the contact people appreciate or not.

If a player runs to a coach and clearly wants a hug, is the coach supposed to push him/her away, because why? Wouldn't the player feel really hurt at a great moment in their life?

I am really getting sick of the attitude that anyone has the right to control the behavior of others.

I don't see anyone wants to control anyone - for example, no one says the items in the first line can't happen. But if a player has made it plain that they don't want to be hugged - it is rude to still hug them.

I disagree with your last line. I have every right to not have someone "give me a hug". My wife worked for what one of the parishioners described as a "hugging" church. Nothing untoward. But I don't like being hugged, and I very successfully avoided it for the most part. Whereas my wife was perfectly cool with it, she instinctively would go to hug someone in a time a need.

 

[phil sampieri]

All I can think of when all this touching no touching topic comes up is
Bria Hartley hugging Geno for quite a while, sobbing and telling him how much she loves him. Inappropriate not. Oldtimer , very Italian who works with many females ,hugs all the time and never had a complaint, hell we hug men too am I also touching a male inappropriately ? If a female asked me not todo that,of course I would never do it.

 

[CocoHusky]

My one take away from years of corporate training on sexual harassment is that inappropriate is defined by the recipient. It does not matter your heritage, age gender, if you hug, touch or kiss someone in a manner that makes them uncomfortable that’s not appropriate. The intention of the person doing the touching is only a consideration as a mitigation step and must never excuse the offense. The other real issue in these situations is the imbalance of power between coaches and these barely young adults. Adults must be held to a higher standards in these situations because very few of these young adults have had enough life experiences to determine on thier own what is appropriate.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

The people doing the touching know if they are being appropriate. If you have to ask, it's inappropriate. It's not that tough.

There are people who do not want to be patted on the back. You think the average person would think this is inappropriate, especially in a sports environment? Who asks...can I pat you on the back? Then you get into was it a pat or rub? How long? Some parts are easy. Some aren't. I personally don't go around kissing people not in my family on the forehead. BUT, this guy isn't the first coach to do it. Just google. And it's not just male coaches.

 

[RogueDave]

In all the discussion of inappropriate and who did what…I forgot the Most physically inappropriate thing I have seen Geno do to a women was slap Kim Mulkey on the butt in front of a National Television Audience before a Baylor game…

That left me speechless…Funny as Hell

 

[Waquoit]

There are people who do not want to be patted on the back. You think the average person would think this is inappropriate, especially in a sports environment? Who asks...can I pat you on the back? Then you get into was it a pat or rub? How long? Some parts are easy. Some aren't. I personally don't go around kissing people not in my family on the forehead. BUT, this guy isn't the first coach to do it. Just google. And it's not just male coaches.

No sale. It's pretty clear when one's physicality is making someone uncomfortable if you actually care enough to read the signs. This is about control. I had a science teacher in high school that loved to give shoulder rubs to the girls. I remember calling him a creep at lunch and no one agreed back then. If it was so innocent, why were the "rubs" only being given to the cute girls with prominent chests? Years later, I had a guy tell out of the blue that I was right. Then I found out that the guy retired later "all of a sudden".

 

[CL82]

STAYING IN BOUNDS
An NCAA Model Policy to Prevent Inappropriate Relationships Between Student-Athletes and Athletics Department Personnel
By Deborah L. Brake, J.D. and Mariah Burton Nelson, MPH, CAE

NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

www.ncaa.org

Wow, this seems to be more the imaginings of tawdry novel than a "Model Policy to Prevent Inappropriate Relationships Between Student-Athletes and Athletics Department Personnel."

 

[LwrcasefaN]

No sale. It's pretty clear when one's physicality is making someone uncomfortable if you actually care enough to read the signs. This is about control. I had a science teacher in high school that loved to give shoulder rubs to the girls. I remember calling him a creep at lunch and no one agreed back then. If it was so innocent, why were the "rubs" only being given to the cute girls with prominent chests? Years later, I had a guy tell out of the blue that I was right. Then I found out that the guy retired later "all of a sudden".

A shoulder RUB is NOT A PAT.

 

[CTrefugee]

Silly topic. Was D harassing Geno? Was Paige harassing Geno ?

Two individuals can decide w/o people making dumb rules and generalization.

 

[Amashutcha]

I too believe it depends on the individual whether they're okay with it or not. How one gets to know that, is a whole different story.