If you want a chance to get mad at something

[champs99and04]

Read this ESPN article on the best all-time champions (disclaimer: it's impossible to make this list without getting somebody mad, and they showed three of our four champs plenty of respect, so don't take it as a "the media hates us" post)

Where does 2018 Villanova rank among all the national championship teams?

 

[Travelman6]

50 is a bit low for the 2004 time IMHO.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't love ranking any team before the mid 70's as one of the best teams of all time. Basketball was a very different sport back, then, clearly a distant third behind baseball and football among young athletes, there was almost no global talent in the college game, and as a result there was not a lot of depth of talent in the sport.

I don't know how to rank the UCLA teams among the all time greats. College basketball and especially the NCAA Tournament were so different back then that it is hard to compare those teams. The PAC 8 was a weak league, and the Tournament was regional through the Final 8 so UCLA was usually playing teams like Long Beach State and San Francisco in the Final 8. That said, UCLA won a lot of Final Fours, where the competition was really good, which is impressive, but still, I wouldn't pull all Wooden's teams in the Top 20 because there were some inflated records in that group.

While Texas Western was historically significant, that is not one of the Top 10 teams of all time. They played in a bad conference and only beat 3 ranked teams all season.

Teams I think are underrated:

1984 Georgetown Hoyas - This is a team you had to see to appreciate how good they were. They beat Olajuwon and Drexler's Houston team and it didn't feel like an upset. The shot clock came about in part from how teams would play Georgetown, holding the ball and killing the clock, which didn't make for aesthetically pleasing basketball. Patrick Ewing was so dominant that a year later the NBA Lottery was invented because so many teams were tanking to try and get him. The fact Georgetown lost 3 games is more a credit to an incredibly deep Big East than a knock against the Hoyas.

1996 Kentucky Wildcats - Peak Pitino. Another team you had to see to appreciate how good they were. They only lost 2 and only played 3 other games that were even within 10 points.

2007 Florida Gators - the starting lineup for this team was really impressive. They coasted at times which is how they lost 5 games, but pretty much everyone knew they could turn it on and beat anyone easily if they wanted. Should be in Top 20.

2004 UConn Huskies - probably not Top 20 of all time, but #50? Really?

 

[djct1999]

Historical lists are stupid and ESPN is really bad at lists. They are good at stupid however.

 

[AdamaNation]

Won’t look after the reviews. But 50? Also that 84 Hoya team is a great call. They can play any team from any era. They were loaded as far as a starting 5 goes. As good as Ewing was Jackson was like an all conference point guard and wing are and Reggie were just coming into their own.

 

[champs99and04]

I wasn't that mad at the ranking itself until I looked at some of the teams they have ahead of us. Anyone who thinks last year's UNC team was better than UConn '04 needs to be shot.

 

[tzznandrew]

I wasn't that mad at the ranking itself until I looked at some of the teams they have ahead of us. Anyone who thinks last year's UNC team was better than UConn '04 needs to be shot.

Or the 2013 Louisville team.

Or the 2010 Duke team.

Or the 2003 Syracuse team.

Just to bring that list to 4.

How much of this was just looking at wins/losses and then tournament performance?

 

[CL82]

2011 has to ranked higher. That run epitomizes everything that makes March Madness special.

Underdog going on a crazy run? ✔
Veteran player puts the team on his back? ✔
Super team chemistry? ✔
Clutch plays? ✔
Coach/player chemistry/affection? ✔
​

I enjoyed the remake with Shabazz and that team has it's own great stories but 2011 is one of the all time great championship runs.

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

Historical lists are stupid and ESPN is really bad at lists. They are good at stupid however.

Their top franchise rankings were by far the worst...

Ultimate Standings: The best franchise in sports is ...

They put a ton of weight on tickets being cheaper because it meant those franchises were "fan friendly"... so like the Royals and Orioles (who average about 2 fans per game btw) were ranked 9th and 15th while the Red Sox and Yankees were ranked 68th and 100th...

 

[J187Money]

Didn't know Russell and KC Jones were both on those USF teams. Quality.

I don't think I ever watched college hoops till I went to UCONN (1989) - would have loved to see some of those old teams play - have no gauge for how good they are.

 

[champs99and04]

Or the 2013 Louisville team.

Or the 2010 Duke team.

Or the 2003 Syracuse team.

Just to bring that list to 4.

How much of this was just looking at wins/losses and then tournament performance?

I'm a lot fonder on 2013 Louisville than most, but I'm right there with you on 2003 Syracuse. That was the other one that jumped out to me as being appalling (the 2003 UConn team beat them twice, no?).

I don't know what to make of 2010 Duke. Part of me thinks they get sold short, part of me can't shake the beatdown they took from Georgetown in January or so of that season. I actually think of the Duke teams likely to be overrated, you'd go with 2015. That's admittedly somewhat subjective on my part and partially clouded by Okafor's (lack of) success in the NBA, but I was never impressed despite the stellar resume (which, looking back, is more impressive than I thought). In hindsight, probably one of K's best coaching jobs.

 

[the Q]

I wasn't that mad at the ranking itself until I looked at some of the teams they have ahead of us. Anyone who thinks last year's UNC team was better than UConn '04 needs to be shot.

there isn't a UNC champion that should be ahead of UConn.

Meka vs. Eric Montross would've been a fun beatdown to watch.

Plus, some mediocre guard probably is going to go nuts against our veteran backcourt.

 

[the Q]

I'm a lot fonder on 2013 Louisville than most, but I'm right there with you on 2003 Syracuse. That was the other one that jumped out to me as being appalling (the 2003 UConn team beat them twice, no?).

I don't know what to make of 2010 Duke. Part of me thinks they get sold short, part of me can't shake the beatdown they took from Georgetown in January or so of that season. I actually think of the Duke teams likely to be overrated, you'd go with 2015. That's admittedly somewhat subjective on my part and partially clouded by Okafor's (lack of) success in the NBA, but I was never impressed despite the stellar resume (which, looking back, is more impressive than I thought). In hindsight, probably one of K's best coaching jobs.

I still can't believe Wisconsin found a way to lose that game.

yes they botched 2 obvious OOB calls towards the end, but you were up 9 with I believe both Okafor and Jones on the bench. And instead of going to your best player, or even your other future first round pick, a bunch of future accountants start jacking up shots.

 

[Lefty2one]

He has our '99 squad as the fourth-best team of the modern era yet vastly underrates the 2004 squad. Interesting.

Any champion from 2010 onward would lose by 20 to our 2004 team with the exception of 2012 UK. Half these recent champions didn't have any future lottery picks; the talent level is so low in college ball these days. If you're going to reward all those teams from the 70s for when they played, you have to dock the last ten years or so. Nova's two title teams and 2017 UNC? Duke 2010? Those teams are very weak in a historical context.

2012 Kentucky has to be the most overrated championship team. 2004 Emeka Okafor was a better collegiate player than 2012 Anthony Davis. I'll never buy that '12 UK is the third-best champion of the modern era after '96 UK and '92 Duke.

 

[intlzncster]

there isn't a UNC champion that should be ahead of UConn.

Meka vs. Eric Montross would've been a fun beatdown to watch.

The matchup with 1982 would be interesting in matching up with James Worthy, Sam Perkins, and young Jordan.

Interesting enough, Matt Doherty was on that team too. Pretty good player.

 

[the Q]

The matchup with 1982 would be interesting in matching up with James Worthy, Sam Perkins, and young Jordan.

Interesting enough, Matt Doherty was on that team too. Pretty good player.

Fair. I was really only thinking of the modern era teams.

 

[UConnNick]

I don't love ranking any team before the mid 70's as one of the best teams of all time. Basketball was a very different sport back, then, clearly a distant third behind baseball and football among young athletes, there was almost no global talent in the college game, and as a result there was not a lot of depth of talent in the sport.

I don't know how to rank the UCLA teams among the all time greats. College basketball and especially the NCAA Tournament were so different back then that it is hard to compare those teams. The PAC 8 was a weak league, and the Tournament was regional through the Final 8 so UCLA was usually playing teams like Long Beach State and San Francisco in the Final 8. That said, UCLA won a lot of Final Fours, where the competition was really good, which is impressive, but still, I wouldn't pull all Wooden's teams in the Top 20 because there were some inflated records in that group.

While Texas Western was historically significant, that is not one of the Top 10 teams of all time. They played in a bad conference and only beat 3 ranked teams all season.

Teams I think are underrated:

1984 Georgetown Hoyas - This is a team you had to see to appreciate how good they were. They beat Olajuwon and Drexler's Houston team and it didn't feel like an upset. The shot clock came about in part from how teams would play Georgetown, holding the ball and killing the clock, which didn't make for aesthetically pleasing basketball. Patrick Ewing was so dominant that a year later the NBA Lottery was invented because so many teams were tanking to try and get him. The fact Georgetown lost 3 games is more a credit to an incredibly deep Big East than a knock against the Hoyas.

1996 Kentucky Wildcats - Peak Pitino. Another team you had to see to appreciate how good they were. They only lost 2 and only played 3 other games that were even within 10 points.

2007 Florida Gators - the starting lineup for this team was really impressive. They coasted at times which is how they lost 5 games, but pretty much everyone knew they could turn it on and beat anyone easily if they wanted. Should be in Top 20.

2004 UConn Huskies - probably not Top 20 of all time, but #50? Really?

Drexler wasn't on the 1984 FF Houston team. He left for the NBA in 1983.

 

[the Q]

I don't love ranking any team before the mid 70's as one of the best teams of all time. Basketball was a very different sport back, then, clearly a distant third behind baseball and football among young athletes, there was almost no global talent in the college game, and as a result there was not a lot of depth of talent in the sport.

I don't know how to rank the UCLA teams among the all time greats. College basketball and especially the NCAA Tournament were so different back then that it is hard to compare those teams. The PAC 8 was a weak league, and the Tournament was regional through the Final 8 so UCLA was usually playing teams like Long Beach State and San Francisco in the Final 8. That said, UCLA won a lot of Final Fours, where the competition was really good, which is impressive, but still, I wouldn't pull all Wooden's teams in the Top 20 because there were some inflated records in that group.

Good points, but i'm not even sure how you compare teams pre and post 3pt shot. It's a totally different game.

All you can do there is just compare how dominant they were to their peers against a modern team.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I thought the 1999 Duke team was the greatest of all time.

 

[champs99and04]

He has our '99 squad as the fourth-best team of the modern era yet vastly underrates the 2004 squad. Interesting.

Any champion from 2010 onward would lose by 20 to our 2004 team with the exception of 2012 UK. Half these recent champions didn't have any future lottery picks; the talent level is so low in college ball these days. If you're going to reward all those teams from the 70s for when they played, you have to dock the last ten years or so. Nova's two title teams and 2017 UNC? Duke 2010? Those teams are very weak in a historical context.

2012 Kentucky has to be the most overrated championship team. 2004 Emeka Okafor was a better collegiate player than 2012 Anthony Davis. I'll never buy that '12 UK is the third-best champion of the modern era after '96 UK and '92 Duke.

Agreed on 2012 Kentucky. Great team without question, but never really tested because of the fact that the two other great teams that year - Syracuse and UNC - both endured crippling injuries (R.I.P. Fab). I think 2004 UConn handles them easily, but then again it isn't a totally fair comparison because I think post-09 the best teams haven't been on the same level. You went through a phase there with '04 UConn, '05 UNC, '06/'07 Florida, '08 Kansas and '09 UNC where the top teams were just filthy. 2010 Duke was the first underwhelming champ of the new era, 2011 UConn obviously wasn't exactly dominant either, and then I think 2012 Kentucky looked really good by comparison. But I'm hard pressed right now to say there are any title winners post-'09 better than this Nova team.

Sometimes I forget how top-heavy 2015 was. There were just a handful of behemoth teams that you don't even think about anymore. People remember Duke, Kentucky, and Wisconsin, but even beyond that you had some freight trains. Arizona went 31-3 with a starting five of T.J. McConnell, Stanley Johnson, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Brandon Ashley, and Kaleb Tarczewski and got a two seed. Villanova was 32-2 heading into selection sunday and somehow finished 9th in the AP poll. Gonzaga ended up 35-3 even after the loss to Duke (maybe the most complete Gonzaga team ever with Sabonis, Wiltjer, Karnowski, Pangos, etc.). Virginia rolled to a 28-1 start but could never put things back together after losing Justin Anderson (that's the forgotten Virginia team that probably haunts UVa fans the most).

The most fun, unforgettable team in the country was probably Notre Dame, though. They were stupid loaded - Jerian Grant, Demetrius Jackson, Pat Connaughton, Steve Vasturia, Zach Auguste, and Bonzie Colson among others - and beat Duke two out of three en route to the ACC tournament title before losing a game to an undefeated Kentucky that they should have won.