OT: deGROM

[storrsroars]

This year he finally came out and said that he wants to be in the Hall of Fame. He’s never stated that before. He’s kind of realizing how good he actually is.

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

 

[8893]

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

Lol. I think someone missed the point. deGrom is not saying that he thinks he belongs there now. He wants to perform at a level that warrants it.

 

[storrsroars]

Lol. I think someone missed the point. deGrom is not saying that he thinks he belongs there now. He wants to perform at a level that warrants it.

Who said anything remotely like that? My entire post is what he'd need to do in the future to get there.

Lol back atcha.

 

[UConnMike04]

He’s absolutely unbelievable. Haven’t seen anything like this as others have mentioned since late 90’s Pedro. I’m still stunned that he’s on my favorite team. We usually don’t luck out like this.

Speaking of luck, I wonder if he’ll have a no-hitter or perfect game in the near future. He’s that dominant that you’re almost expecting it to happen. I’m also positive if/when it happens he’ll win 1-0 and have the RBI bc he’ll drive the runner in from 2nd and the runner will be on second only bc two consecutive batters got hit by pitches.

I usually go to 8-12 games a year, can’t wait to get back to Citi. #LFGM

 

[storrsroars]

I wonder if he’ll have a no-hitter or perfect game in the near future.

When does he face the Pirates?

 

[8893]

Who said anything remotely like that? My entire post is what he'd need to do in the future to get there.

Lol back atcha.

Do you think it’s a mystery to anyone that it takes hard work over a longer period? Least of all him?

I mean knock yourself crunching all the advanced metrics you want but the point was simply that he is starting to realize that he may be good enough to do it.

This is a guy who was converted from a shortstop to a pitcher in his junior year in college and selected in the ninth round of the draft.

 

[Deepster]

Do you think it’s a mystery to anyone that it takes hard work over a longer period? Least of all him?

I mean knock yourself crunching all the advanced metrics you want but the point was simply that he is starting to realize that he may be good enough to do it.

This is a guy who was converted from a shortstop to a pitcher in his junior year in college and selected in the ninth round of the draft.

That baseball nerd can post all the BBAIp+ type numbers that he wants. If there is one pitcher in the major leagues in the fast lane headed to Cooperstown right now, it’s deGrom.

 

[UofCT]

Third pitcher ever with 14+ strikeouts in three straight starts. Most strikeouts ever through the first four starts of a season 50 and he’s still pitching. His era right now is 0.33. Of all the pitches thrown this year at 99 mph or higher by all starting pitchers. deGROM has thrown about half of them. Hes also batting .500 this year. He has five hits. No other pitcher has more than 2. He’s simply amazing.

in DeGROM’s start tonight. He’s retired 16 in a row with 15 k’s and only 99 pitches through 8 innings. He may go out for the 9th. In his last start. He became the seventh pitcher ever to strike out nine in a row.

the one run he was charged with this year. Was on a home run on a 101 mph fastball above the strike zone. Stat cast hadn’t ever tracked a home run by a pitch thrown that hard and in that area. So it was a great swing by a young Florida Marlin.

He’s the starting pitcher version of Mariano.

 

[storrsroars]

Do you think it’s a mystery to anyone that it takes hard work over a longer period? Least of all him?

I mean knock yourself crunching all the advanced metrics you want but the point was simply that he is starting to realize that he may be good enough to do it.

This is a guy who was converted from a shortstop to a pitcher in his junior year in college and selected in the ninth round of the draft.

Your point to me was:

Lol. I think someone missed the point. deGrom is not saying that he thinks he belongs there now.

And my response holds. There's really nothing to argue about here.

 

[8893]

Your point to me was:

And my response holds. There's really nothing to argue about here.

My point is that it was obviously an aspirational statement. I was surprised when you got all stats geeky on it to rain on the parade of a pretty amazing performance and a pretty cool guy to watch right now

 

[jeff99]

DeGrom is awesome, but Corbin Burnes has been equally impressive. 40 Ks and ZERO walks in 24 innings.

 

[storrsroars]

My point is that it was obviously an aspirational statement. I was surprised when you got all stats geeky on it to rain on the parade of a pretty amazing performance and a pretty cool guy to watch right now

As a long suffering former Mets fan myself for 40+ years, I'm having a hard time figuring out when the schism happened where Mets fans became the pollyannas and Yankee fans became the dark pessimists who can't have nice things. ?

 

[McLovin]

Devils advocate... What if degrom is so good because the Mets sucked so much it forced him to focus & work even harder and unlock another level in his game?

David Cone on the Yankees broadcast always says a pitcher being in a no hitter that is a close game is easier than a blow out, because the close game forces the pitcher to focus on pitching to win and not the no hitter.

 

[Rico444]

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

I'm just going to keep enjoying watching him. I'll bet he gets in though if he can at the very least get a 3rd Cy Young. The only pitcher to be left out with 3+ Cy Young awards is, funny enough, the guy with the most: Roger Clemens (and we all know why he hasn't gotten in). Scherzer and Kershaw also aren't in, but Kershaw's a lock and Scherzer is pretty close to one too.

 

[storrsroars]

Devils advocate... What if degrom is so good because the Mets sucked so much it forced him to focus & work even harder and unlock another level in his game?

David Cone on the Yankees broadcast always says a pitcher being in a no hitter that is a close game is easier than a blow out, because the close game forces the pitcher to focus on pitching to win and not the no hitter.

deGrom has developed the key attribute for success: confidence in his stuff. He's always had it more than guys like Glasnow or Giolito (or sadly for us Bucs fans, Mitch Keller) who have amazing stuff but didn't have early success. Now he's simply at a level few reach.

As an aside, while I was looking at pitching stats, I saw that Matz is now a solid 3, potential 2 for Toronto. Did the Mets fail him, was he just not ready, or was the spotlight too grand?

 

[navery12]

deGrom has developed the key attribute for success: confidence in his stuff. He's always had it more than guys like Glasnow or Giolito (or sadly for us Bucs fans, Mitch Keller) who have amazing stuff but didn't have early success. Now he's simply at a level few reach.

As an aside, while I was looking at pitching stats, I saw that Matz is now a solid 3, potential 2 for Toronto. Did the Mets fail him, was he just not ready, or was the spotlight too grand?

He's just too inconsistent, he showed flashes of this with the Mets but just always followed it up with a month of 4 innings 4 runs starts. Think a change of scenery was best for everyone

 

[Rico444]

deGrom has developed the key attribute for success: confidence in his stuff. He's always had it more than guys like Glasnow or Giolito (or sadly for us Bucs fans, Mitch Keller) who have amazing stuff but didn't have early success. Now he's simply at a level few reach.

As an aside, while I was looking at pitching stats, I saw that Matz is now a solid 3, potential 2 for Toronto. Did the Mets fail him, was he just not ready, or was the spotlight too grand?

Matz's issues were always mental. He needed a change of scenery badly. I was fully on board with the Mets moving on from him this offseason, and I knew full well that he would have success in his next stop.

 

[Rico444]

He's just too inconsistent, he showed flashes of this with the Mets but just always followed it up with a month of 4 innings 4 runs starts. Think a change of scenery was best for everyone

At least we got some quality looking bullpen arms for him. Sean Reid-Foley looks like a keeper for sure.

 

[navery12]

At least we got some quality looking bullpen arms for him. Sean Reid-Foley looks like a keeper for sure.

And their best prospect outside of the top group right now Khalil Lee (sort of, they flipped a guy they got for Matz for him)

 

[Rico444]

And their best prospect outside of the top group right now Khalil Lee (sort of, they flipped a guy they got for Matz for him)

I thought we gave a PTBNL, or did we give two players?

 

[navery12]

I thought we gave a PTBNL, or did we give two players?

It was 2 players, Josh Winckowski and a PTBNL. Though presumably that'll be the bigger name in the deal

 

[WeAreUCONN]

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

I disagree. If deGROM has a 5 year stretch where he is considered the best pitcher in the game and has three or four Cy Young awards to back that up. I think he gets in on the first ballot. The game has changed.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

Matz's issues were always mental. He needed a change of scenery badly. I was fully on board with the Mets moving on from him this offseason, and I knew full well that he would have success in his next stop.

I didn’t know if Matz would ever figure it out and honestly didn’t care. He needed a change of scenery for sure. It’s great he’s doing well but he was not going to ever do well for the Mets.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

deGrom has developed the key attribute for success: confidence in his stuff. He's always had it more than guys like Glasnow or Giolito (or sadly for us Bucs fans, Mitch Keller) who have amazing stuff but didn't have early success. Now he's simply at a level few reach.

As an aside, while I was looking at pitching stats, I saw that Matz is now a solid 3, potential 2 for Toronto. Did the Mets fail him, was he just not ready, or was the spotlight too grand?

He seemed to have success when he used his slider and then he hurt his arm and stopped using it. Last year deGROM said he’s never seen Matz look so good and then he went out there and got walloped to an era of almost ten. I think it was both mental and physical at different times. Less pressure in Toronto. I’m sure that helps.

 

[8893]

As a long suffering former Mets fan myself for 40+ years, I'm having a hard time figuring out when the schism happened where Mets fans became the pollyannas and Yankee fans became the dark pessimists who can't have nice things. ?

I forgot that you were a Mets fan. I guess we all have a funny way of showing it sometimes.

If you have followed any of the Mets threads on this board I think you'd find that I'm pretty far from a pollyanna about them--ever. And I'm not now.

I am just enjoying watching this guy because he is the anti-Matt Harvey and exactly the kind of player I want all of them to aspire to be. I've enjoyed rooting for him from day one and it is heartening to see him really settling in to his own greatness. As you know, we don't see that often in Queens. Our history seems to be littered with more what-ifs, past-primes and has-beens than real deals.

I think the thing I admire most about him is that he seems to be so at peace with controlling what he can control--and doing the absolute best at that--and letting go of what he can't control, like defensive lapses and lack of offense when he pitches. He's locked in like a machine right now.

I loved Nimmo's comments last night about how Jake single-handedly controlled that game from both sides of the plate like nothing he had ever witnessed; and I especially loved Mets' catcher James McCann's recent comment that deGrom doesn't just want to beat you, but he wants to take your heart and soul in the process. When they asked Jake about that last night his smile was priceless.

It's like he has the kind of joy in competitive excellence that makes me enjoy watching Paige Bueckers, even when I don't watch women's basketball otherwise. They seem like the greatest, nicest, coolest people, but they also want to absolutely destroy you. How can you not love that?