OT: College in the COVID era

[Improviser]

I guess every company I've ever worked for or with and never once have I seen a member on any level of upper management that's majored in a social science. And for an earner making $130k+ I assume them to be upper/senior management

Probably that and some engrained stereotypes that things like English and other social sciences aren't high paying majors

Having followed this discussion and been a part of it, I can surmise a situation where a student had a double major in English and Business or maybe English and Math, and could sell themselves at an interview that they have solid writing skills developed from majoring in English, combined with Math and/or business courses which would enable them to have knowledge of the business algorithms or whatever hedge fund or investment bankers have to know, plus the ability to use their writing skills to communicate this to clients and to fellow employees.

So then, and this is conjecture on my part, an employee with technical math knowledge about market trends, who could communicate this in understandable terms, would have value to a company.

My financial advisor presents persuasive bar graphs and charts to show stock and fund trends, but I am not sure whether she majored in English with another major or minor in Math or Business, or if she just majored in English.

Maybe she got the graphs from upper management from the guy who majored in English?

Just shooting in the dark here, but it could be a sell at an interview, coupled with any summer work experience the student had in a business or investment firm.

Trying to square my preconceived notions with a scenario where he or she could be a high wage earner in a business setting.

 

[upstater]

I guess every company I've ever worked for or with and never once have I seen a member on any level of upper management that's majored in a social science. And for an earner making $130k+ I assume them to be upper/senior management

Probably that and some engrained stereotypes that things like English and other social sciences aren't high paying majors

$130k would not be senior management at places like Vanguard. They were just senior writers.

 

[upstater]

Having followed this discussion and been a part of it, I can surmise a situation where a student had a double major in English and Business or maybe English and Math, and could sell themselves at an interview that they have solid writing skills developed from majoring in English, combined with Math and/or business courses which would enable them to have knowledge of the business algorithms or whatever hedge fund or investment bankers have to know, plus the ability to use their writing skills to communicate this to clients and to fellow employees.

So then, and this is conjecture on my part, an employee with technical math knowledge about market trends, who could communicate this in understandable terms, would have value to a company.

My financial advisor presents persuasive bar graphs and charts to show stock and fund trends, but I am not sure whether she majored in English with another major or minor in Math or Business, or if she just majored in English.

Maybe she got the graphs from upper management from the guy who majored in English?

Just shooting in the dark here, but it could be a sell at an interview, coupled with any summer work experience the student had in a business or investment firm.

Trying to square my preconceived notions with a scenario where he or she could be a high wage earner in a business setting.

The Hedge Fund guy I mentioned is an outlier. We can't all be billionaires. But we had him in to talk to our students and his memorable quote was, "My English degree at UB taught me how to write, how to speak, and how to think. And that's all I needed." As for the quants, he hired them when he needed them.

One of my best friends spent the 90s and early 2000s jumping from job to job, signing bonus to signing bonus, starting with an editor position, and then doing tech writing, from BBN Bolt Beranek Newman (the backbone of the internet) to finance corporations in Boston and then back to tech, before he became a manager of a computer team at McKesson. He has never had any advanced training in anything other than Creative Writing (I met him when he got his MFA).

This isn't unusual. Right now, Facebook has upper hundreds of job openings in Business Development, where they specifically look for top Humanities/Liberal Arts people, and they only have 200 job openings for software development and computer language people. What does Facebook need? People who have been trained to conduct research systematically, how to analyze cultural information, present it in a variety of ways (written and visual), and also those who know how to take all of that and find innovative avenues for possible new products. This isn't your average English major who can do that, but Facebook is not your average company.

By the way, teaching at a university is hardly a career path in these fields. Hardly any jobs ever come open. If the goal of liberal arts or humanities degrees was to produce professors, then we would be shuttered.

I imagine most CEOs come from business but there are a lot who don't.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

$130k would not be senior management at places like Vanguard. They were just senior writers.

I'm speaking generally...obviously that excludes trillion dollar companies

I guess maybe I also just don't understand all the courses involved in an English degree. One of my close friends majored in english at BU and while he still does some writing/editing gigs they have more become his side hustle as he's transitioned to more data science and database management...and he definitely doesn't make anywhere near $130k (~35yr old)

 

[huskiesNhoos]

The Hedge Fund guy I mentioned is an outlier. We can't all be billionaires. But we had him in to talk to our students and his memorable quote was, "My English degree at UB taught me how to write, how to speak, and how to think. And that's all I needed." As for the quants, he hired them when he needed them.

One of my best friends spent the 90s and early 2000s jumping from job to job, signing bonus to signing bonus, starting with an editor position, and then doing tech writing, from BBN Bolt Beranek Newman (the backbone of the internet) to finance corporations in Boston and then back to tech, before he became a manager of a computer team at McKesson. He has never had any advanced training in anything other than Creative Writing (I met him when he got his MFA).

This isn't unusual. Right now, Facebook has upper hundreds of job openings in Business Development, where they specifically look for top Humanities/Liberal Arts people, and they only have 200 job openings for software development and computer language people. What does Facebook need? People who have been trained to conduct research systematically, how to analyze cultural information, present it in a variety of ways (written and visual), and also those who know how to take all of that and find innovative avenues for possible new products. This isn't your average English major who can do that, but Facebook is not your average company.

By the way, teaching at a university is hardly a career path in these fields. Hardly any jobs ever come open. If the goal of liberal arts or humanities degrees was to produce professors, then we would be shuttered.

I imagine most CEOs come from business but there are a lot who don't.

I like that quote

Also, i chuckled when you mentioned BD. Seems like that's blowing up in a lot of industries and the only real qualifications are to be charismatic and maybe know a little about what you're selling

 

[upstater]

I like that quote

Also, i chuckled when you mentioned BD. Seems like that's blowing up in a lot of industries and the only real qualifications are to be charismatic and maybe know a little about what you're selling

So, salesman. Ha.

 

[upstater]

I'm speaking generally...obviously that excludes trillion dollar companies

I guess maybe I also just don't understand all the courses involved in an English degree. One of my close friends majored in english at BU and while he still does some writing/editing gigs they have more become his side hustle as he's transitioned to more data science and database management...and he definitely doesn't make anywhere near $130k (~35yr old)

The people I know are either writing for internal letters, or for marketing (brochures, online websites), or for my friend at McKesson, he was organizing the client website with a team of programmers under him, all of whom were making a more money than him. So figure that one out, when you get paid 3 figures, but your subordinates make more than you!

As for courses, the work of most English classes is doing archival research and then organizing it, synthesizing it, in ways that produce new knowledge. if I had to describe what my colleagues do, that's what they are mostly up to.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

As for courses, the work of most English classes is doing archival research and then organizing it, synthesizing it, in ways that produce new knowledge. if I had to describe what my colleagues do, that's what they are mostly up to.

English major here. In addition to English literature classes, there were about 30 credits of liberal arts reqs needed to finish up the major. For example, at UConn, I was required to have a liberal arts "focus" which is kinda like a minor but at the very least a concentration on something else than English classes.

My last four semesters at UConn, I averaged about six-to-nine credits a semester taking various classes outside my major. Often times, those were my favorite classes.

In terms of profession, I went into grad school, finished with a secondary English education degree. However, I was originally a math major, so eventually transitioned from being an English teacher to a full time math teacher and now the department head at my school. With so much communication in the teaching profession and heading a department, my English major has helped a lot.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'm speaking generally...obviously that excludes trillion dollar companies

I guess maybe I also just don't understand all the courses involved in an English degree. One of my close friends majored in english at BU and while he still does some writing/editing gigs they have more become his side hustle as he's transitioned to more data science and database management...and he definitely doesn't make anywhere near $130k (~35yr old)

$130k isn't a crazy number for a data scientist nowadays.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I guess every company I've ever worked for or with and never once have I seen a member on any level of upper management that's majored in a social science. And for an earner making $130k+ I assume them to be upper/senior management

Probably that and some engrained stereotypes that things like English and other social sciences aren't high paying majors

When I first went to a software company in Los Gatos, CA the #2 guy in the company and head of engineering was a history major from Stanford. He’s a CEO now. The reality is that there are teenagers who are very capable self taught programmers. You can learn what you need to later.

The sales guys where I work have base pay in the six figures before commissions. Many are at half a million or more. Some have technical backgrounds but most don’t. Outgoing personality and an ability to learn takes you far if you want it to.

That said, if you want to be an engineer, get an engineering degreee. Same with accounting. There are fields where you won’t get in the door early in your careeer without the right degree. I do agree that the trades are a great route for many. Neighbor has a son who was swapping transmissions in his Jeep from his driveway in high school. Not an academic. He became a plumber and his dad said that once he’s a master plumber, he will take that college money saved and stake him to start a business. Probably retire to help him run it too. That is when you can really do well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

$130k would not be senior management at places like Vanguard. They were just senior writers.

Or any large company.

 

[August_West]

or for my friend at McKesson, he was organizing the client website with a team of programmers under him, all of whom were making a more money than him. So figure that one out, when you get paid 3 figures, but your subordinates make more than you!

To bad we all couldnt get fat and giggly on loot while hooking America on narcotics.

 

[CL82]

Elevator dudes crush it.

Right now, sure, but the business has its ups and downs.

 

[8893]

Right now, sure, but the business has its ups and downs.

And a lot of them end up getting the shaft.

 

[CL82]

And a lot of them end up getting the shaft.

I always appreciate your "Dad joke" game. [tips cap]

 

[8893]

I always appreciate your "Dad joke" game. [tips cap]

Ditto.

 

[Improviser]

And a lot of them end up getting the shaft.

"We don't take the elevator, we take the stairs." To misquote a quote.

It really is, "We don't take the "escalator," but the unnamed source of the 8 year old quote is like a lightning rod that draws attention.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

"We don't take the elevator, we take the stairs." To misquote a quote.

If only there was more lift the last few years

 

[Improviser]

If only there was more lift the last few years

We were caught between floors under the shaft for a while.

Now, we are inside the elevator, with a competent elevator operator.

 

[White Dwarf]

UNC Chapel Hill just switched to all online starting Wednesday. 135 more positives.

 

[krinklecut]

English major here. In addition to English literature classes, there were about 30 credits of liberal arts reqs needed to finish up the major. For example, at UConn, I was required to have a liberal arts "focus" which is kinda like a minor but at the very least a concentration on something else than English classes.

My last four semesters at UConn, I averaged about six-to-nine credits a semester taking various classes outside my major. Often times, those were my favorite classes.

In terms of profession, I went into grad school, finished with a secondary English education degree. However, I was originally a math major, so eventually transitioned from being an English teacher to a full time math teacher and now the department head at my school. With so much communication in the teaching profession and heading a department, my English major has helped a lot.

Me English degree from UConn has come in handy, and I've never really regretted it. People dump on the liberal arts, but my degree got me an entry level job in the financial sector where I excelled and quickly jump ranks, before pivoting to run bars and restaurants, where the communication skills I picked up as an English major were paramount to my success, and now working in marketing it comes in handy every day.

 

[uconnfan68]

I'm SHOCKED that the BU law school is ranked that high...I've never seen it listed there before or in other sources. I always viewed NYU as a top 20 law school and #2 in NYC. Not sure hiring partners would view BU that high either....but that's just my opinion

BU and BC were both top 25 law schools about 15 years ago. My son-in-law transferred to BU law after first year at another Boston law school. They get a LOT of international students there for Masters in Tax Law.

 

[zls44]

The UNC situation is a ten-alarm fire

After a Week of COVID-19 Outbreaks, UNC-Chapel Hill Is Moving to Remote Classes - INDY Week

The announcement came late Monday afternoon, about an hour before a 5 p.m. tuition deadline.

indyweek.com

 

[Fishy]

The UNC situation is a ten-alarm fire

After a Week of COVID-19 Outbreaks, UNC-Chapel Hill Is Moving to Remote Classes - INDY Week

The announcement came late Monday afternoon, about an hour before a 5 p.m. tuition deadline.

indyweek.com

Here’s the rub....

Online instruction is essentially make-believe learning. The kids really won’t learn, but you can still pull tuition out of them and everyone still gets paid which is really the schools’ primary goal at this point.

The younger the kid, the more damaging a year of make-believe school is - and if you’re young and do not have the social infrastructure around you to even make the best of this nonsense approach, you‘re screwed now and in the future.

Given that, and given that the supposed ten-alarm fire touted by our resident pearl-clutcher above will likely result in 123 kids who will feel just fine in a few days, the cure looks a lot worse than the disease right now.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Here’s the rub....

Online instruction is essentially make-believe learning. The kids really won’t learn, but you can still pull tuition out of them and everyone still gets paid which is really the schools’ primary goal at this point.

The younger the kid, the more damaging a year of make-believe school is - and if you’re young and do not have the social infrastructure around you to even make the best of this nonsense approach, you‘re screwed now and in the future.

Given that, and given that the supposed ten-alarm fire touted by our resident pearl-clutcher above will likely result in 123 kids who will feel just fine in a few days, the cure looks a lot worse than the disease right now.

And for elementary school kids, even more so. HS or even middle school from home, ok, maybe. Elementary school kids need to be fully in person. If a teacher is at risk, find a different teacher. Shift roles. I know an immune compromised teacher who applied for a remote job instead of her usual and got it. Better an inexperienced teacher in person than an experienced one on Zoom.