Another Historical List to Climb

[tzznandrew]

UConn has had 6 Consensus First Team All-Americans. Last year was the first time we won a title without one (Rip, Emeka, Kemba, Shabazz), but Newton has gotten one vote towards consensus as noted elsewhere. Usually you need 3/4 to make it. If he makes it, we begin to move up a very long list with some programs ahead of us who haven't done anything in literally 100 years. We're tied for 32. Newton making it would jump us to a tie for 27th.

Most Consensus First Team All-Americans

1. Kansas 32
2. Kentucky 27
3. North Carolina 27
3. Purdue 27
5. Duke 24
5. Penn 24
7. Notre Dame 23
8. Wisconsin 22
9. UCLA 21
10. Columbia 19
11. Indiana 17
12. Illinois 15
13. Ohio St. 15
14. Chicago 14
15. Oklahoma 13
16. Syracuse 12
17. Minnesota 11
18. Michigan 10
18. Missouri 10
20. Pittsburgh 9
20. Princeton 9
20. LSU 9
23. Arizona 8
23. Cincinnati 8
23. Georgetown 8
23. Yale 8
27. Texas 7
27. Utah 7
27. Washington 7
27. Louisville 7
27. Navy 7
32. California 6
32. Creighton 6
32. Dartmouth 6
32. DePaul 6
32. Gonzaga 6
32. Maryland 6
32. Oregon 6
32. Oregon St. 6
32. UConn 6
32. Villanova 6

 

[Waquoit]

Five Natty's with that few All-Americans says something. Not sure what, though.

 

[Hoophound]

It’s pretty crazy that we only have 6. You’d think all of our FF teams would have one and we had a lot of great non FF teams. Without even knowing who we have on the list, I’d think Chris Smith, Ray Allen, Donyell, Ben, Emeka, Caron, Kemba, Shabazz and I didn’t even try.

 

[tzznandrew]

Chris Smith, Ray Allen, Donyell, Ben, Emeka, Caron, Kemba, Shabazz

Crazy that Caron, Ben, and Sanogo didn't even get Second Team Consensus.

Also crazy that no one on the 1-seed in 1990 did, either. Usually the 1-seed gets some bonus. But I guess that team was so well-rounded.

 

[HooperScooper]

Some of these must be from the dark ages. Chicago has 14? Who? I just looked it up. The last one was in 1921. Were they still using peach baskets back then? See below for the list.

Penn, Columbia, Princeton, Yale, and Dartmouth? O.K. I know Bill Bradley went to Princeton. But the rest? Were there like 10 teams in the entire country when they had these?

Useless list and exercise.

Chicago Consensus All-American​

Player	Year(s)
James Ozanne	1905
John Schommer	1906, 1907, 1908, & 1909
James McKeag	1906
Albert Houghton	1907
Pat Page	1908, 1909, & 1910
Nelson Norgren	1914
Tony Hinkle	1919 & 1920
R. D. Birkhoff	1921

 

[87Xfer]

People who are concerned with these stack rankings need to decide what's important to them. Are we talking about the peach basket days, or something that resembles modern basketball? I personally don't care so much about what happened before I saw my first basketball game. (maybe that's just me) Or even before there was a shot clock, a 3-point line or a 64 team tournament. But the folks who are clinging to what happened 50+ years ago are certainly entitled to their opinions.

 

[Leebo]

I'm curious about "consensus" as well, going back further. Those Chicago ones seem like they were all retroactive Helms designations, so... was that the entirety of the "consensus"? When did there start being multiple, real-time selections?

 

[UCann]

UConn’s position on this list is a reflection of (in no particular order):

• Irrational timespan considered
• National bias against UConn in favor of other “blue bloods”
• UConn’s approach to team and program building - focus on team, not individual stars

 

[AdamaNation]

UConn has had 6 Consensus First Team All-Americans. Last year was the first time we won a title without one (Rip, Emeka, Kemba, Shabazz), but Newton has gotten one vote towards consensus as noted elsewhere. Usually you need 3/4 to make it. If he makes it, we begin to move up a very long list with some programs ahead of us who haven't done anything in literally 100 years. We're tied for 32. Newton making it would jump us to a tie for 27th.

Most Consensus First Team All-Americans

1. Kansas 32
2. Kentucky 27
3. North Carolina 27
3. Purdue 27
5. Duke 24
5. Penn 24
7. Notre Dame 23
8. Wisconsin 22
9. UCLA 21
10. Columbia 19
11. Indiana 17
12. Illinois 15
13. Ohio St. 15
14. Chicago 14
15. Oklahoma 13
16. Syracuse 12
17. Minnesota 11
18. Michigan 10
18. Missouri 10
20. Pittsburgh 9
20. Princeton 9
20. LSU 9
23. Arizona 8
23. Cincinnati 8
23. Georgetown 8
23. Yale 8
27. Texas 7
27. Utah 7
27. Washington 7
27. Louisville 7
27. Navy 7
32. California 6
32. Creighton 6
32. Dartmouth 6
32. DePaul 6
32. Gonzaga 6
32. Maryland 6
32. Oregon 6
32. Oregon St. 6
32. UConn 6
32. Villanova 6

Just think. 6 AAs. 5 titles. Hah!!!!

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

UConn’s position on this list is a reflection of (in no particular order):

• Irrational timespan considered
• National bias against UConn in favor of other “blue bloods”
• UConn’s approach to team and program building - focus on team, not individual stars

We’ve had a great amount of stars at UConn and that’s okay and a great thing.

Not sure how Donyell, Ray, Rip, Caron, and so many more would feel about not being considered a star.

 

[tzznandrew]

UConn’s position on this list is a reflection of (in no particular order):

• Irrational timespan considered
• National bias against UConn in favor of other “blue bloods”
• UConn’s approach to team and program building - focus on team, not individual stars

We've had huge stars. It's just the timeline thing. There were lots and lots of First Team All-Americans that were named pre-1938. There were 10, rather than 5, for the first bunch of years. Programs that were successful from the very beginning (Kansas, UNC, Duke, UNC) were obviously going to have a bunch of AA then, too. No need for conspiracy.

UConn did have one Academic AA (Bialsunknia) before Calhoun, but you really weren't getting a non-academic one without a real national presence, which we didn't have until the 1990s.

 

[tzznandrew]

Useless list and exercise.

Meh. It's not useless. I think it's fun and interesting. Yes, it is reflective of the whole history of basketball, which means you're getting Chicago with 11 pre-World War I AAs.

It's like baseball stats and history before the World Series, or college football before the AP Title: fun trivia, and sometimes indicative of the history of the program. If we made the list be after the start of the NCAAT, or after widespread integration, or after the tournament expanded, it would be more relevant to today, of course, but not necessarily more authentic to the history.

People who are concerned with these stack rankings need to decide what's important to them. Are we talking about the peach basket days, or something that resembles modern basketball?

Meh. Why can't both things be important, interesting, and appropriately contextualized? I don't think it's the same as considering the Helms as a real title, because (a) All American teams are always judged rather than decided on the court, and (b) it's not primary, or really even secondary, in determining a program's historic greatness. It's more tertiary: all of the "blue bloods" are certainly there, and the traditional ones are near the top. But intermixed are good historic programs like Purdue and Notre Dame or absolute nobodies like Columbia.

I'm curious about "consensus" as well, going back further. Those Chicago ones seem like they were all retroactive Helms designations, so... was that the entirety of the "consensus"? When did there start being multiple, real-time selections?

Some lesser publications started doing this in 1929, and Helms went back and did 1905-1935, I think roughly at the same time as they went back and acknowledged "Championships." I don't think the NCAA recognizes Helms titles, but they do recognize this list. Probably for the reasons noted above.

 

[tzznandrew]

I personally don't care so much about what happened before I saw my first basketball game. (maybe that's just me) Or even before there was a shot clock, a 3-point line or a 64 team tournament.

Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum.

 

[cullaville]

Five Natty's with that few All-Americans says something. Not sure what, though.

I am glad that UCONN has stylish dressers but happier that UCONN has five National Championships - hopefully more

Natty Definition:
stylish and tidy in every detail:
He's always been a natty dresser.

 

[tzznandrew]

And up we go!

1. Kansas 32
2. North Carolina 28
2. Purdue 28
4. Kentucky 27
5. Duke 24
5. Penn 24
7. Notre Dame 23
8. Wisconsin 22
9. UCLA 21
10. Columbia 19
11. Indiana 17
12. Illinois 15
13. Ohio St. 15
14. Chicago 14
15. Oklahoma 13
16. Syracuse 12
17. Minnesota 11
18. Michigan 10
18. Missouri 10
20. Pittsburgh 9
20. Princeton 9
20. LSU 9
23. Arizona 8
23. Cincinnati 8
23. Georgetown 8
23. Yale 8
27. Texas 7
27. UConn 7
27. Utah 7
27. Washington 7
27. Louisville 7
27. Navy 7
33. California 6
33. Creighton 6
33. Dartmouth 6
33. DePaul 6
33. Gonzaga 6
33. Maryland 6
33. Oregon 6
33. Oregon St. 6
33. Villanova 6

 

[AntG168]

Yale having more all Americans than us is wild