Another ESPN, Andy Katz article

[Rumrunner]

The one person who is most connected to the Big East and the ACC in the media is Andy Katz. Remember, the UNC and Duke AD's are both on the ACC expansion committee. Andy practically has a bat phone line to those two departments. He has yet another article out, this time about scheduling for 2014:

"Connecticut is putting on the full-court press to join the ACC in case the league decides to expand again. And Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski and North Carolina coach Roy Williams both told ESPN.com they would like to see the league eventually go to 16, with two eight-team divisions.
But there is no sense of urgency in the ACC, especially since the Big East for the moment is making Pitt and Syracuse stay for 27 months per the league's bylaws. The conference has plenty of time to figure out how to schedule its 14-team league."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy

If anybody looks at the ACC teams with 14 teams, two nothern teams complete the geographic balance. At 14, you have an unbalanced schedule both in football, but especially in basketball. Going to 16 alleviates any scheduling concerns. UNC and Duke, in particular, want to go to a 4 team pod system so that each team in the pod play home and home. For obvious reasons, Duke-UNC, plus some not so obvious. Each team gets to play Wake twice. Not a bad way to pick up some extra wins. Same for NC State.

If the Big East dissolves, with WVU to the SEC, UofL, Cincy, TCU to the Big 12 (or stay in MWC with it's play in game), then that forces the ACC to address their scheduling concerns. As it stands, any suggestion of adding the service academies is a nonstarter. They want no part of the Big East and its drama. Can't blame them at all. With the remaining teams: Temple, Houston, ECU, Memphis, UCF. The BE teams might as well join CUSA. The product will be identical. The AQ is as good as gone in the 2010-2013 review period.

So, rightfully, the meeting on Sunday is important. Time to give ND the final ultimatum: join or go. They are parasites at this point. Before anyone starts talking about commitment, ND's commitment to the Big East MUST be addressed. Let the bb onlies keep the BE name and be a slightly pumped up A10.

 

[Section205]

Wow...Calipari wants Mizzou, Va Tech, and Maryland to join the SEC.

 

[Rumrunner]

I don't think VA Tech is the team that will leave. Football and new market for the SEC=winner. The problem is, the Tech president cares more about academics than he likes the SEC. The Special Ed Conference played up Texas A&M's admission as if it were Harvard/Yale/Princeton joining.

 

[Dann]

if the acc does get uconn and ruty then maybe this would be the first time a pod system is ever used in bball. i would rather see a round robin with 1 rival or 3 rivals games games but i understand the tb road and there bball ideas. the pod system would actually work out really well with the acc.

uconn/ruty/bc/cuse
vt/uva/md/pitt
duke/unc/wake/ncst
miami/fsu/gt/clemson

play your pod home and away=6 games plus everyone else once(yearly rotate h/a)=12 for a 18 game shecdule. not bad, it would be pretty balanced for the most part.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The ACC as a 16 team conference, is obviously a desireable structure to be part of, and the big east has shown that a 16 team conference can work. It would work a hell of a lot better than it did with 16 teams all-sports with natural geography and rivalry.

When you're not in a decision making position though, the worst possible thing you can do, is not leave yourself options.

I trust that behind the scenes, everything that's possible that can be done to retain the BCS AQ status beyond 2013 for us in a conference other than the ACC is being handled.

 

[speedoo]

what is AQ please?

 

[HooHusky]

I agree about VATech, and doubt that they would bolt.

They called in a lot of markers to get into the ACC (even had the UVA prez (UConn's Casteen) behind them). And the whole state is really gaa-gaa with the ACC. Going SEC would be contrary to what they strive to be (respected academically).

 

[toppencil]

what is AQ please?

Read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCS_conference

 

[HooHusky]

So, rightfully, the meeting on Sunday is important. Time to give ND the final ultimatum: join or go. They are parasites at this point. Before anyone starts talking about commitment, ND's commitment to the Big East MUST be addressed. Let the bb onlies keep the BE name and be a slightly pumped up A10.

What's the meeting on Sunday?

 

[speedoo]

Read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCS_conference

Thanks. Stupid bcs stuff..... Reason enough by itself to go to superconferences.

 

[Rumrunner]

What's the meeting on Sunday?

The Big East presidents are meeting in Washington, DC.

Even President Herbst will be there

 

[ConnHuskBask]

So, rightfully, the meeting on Sunday is important. Time to give ND the final ultimatum: join or go. They are parasites at this point. Before anyone starts talking about commitment, ND's commitment to the Big East MUST be addressed. Let the bb onlies keep the BE name and be a slightly pumped up A10.

Right, kick out ND who's a national name in basketball and through their affiliation improves our awful bowl lineup.

Also, the Big East would be a "slightly pumped up" A10? They would be better than the football Big East members and be in the biggest markets in the country. Then, if we're splitting, that means we'd have to add dregs like UCF, ECU, etc to hoops. Also, don't think for a second they wouldn't extend an invite to teams like Xavier, Temple, Butler, etc.

Assuming no other defections (big if) we'd have UConn, Ville, Cincy, West Virginia up against Nova, Georgetown, Marquette, St John's, ND.

Weaken our already horrible bowl lineup. Check.
Give up the one strength of the conference to a competitor in the same footprint. Check.

Job well done.

 

[Rumrunner]

Right, kick out ND who's a national name in basketball and through their affiliation improves our awful bowl lineup.

Also, the Big East would be a "slightly pumped up" A10? I'd argue they would be better than the football Big East members and be in the biggest markets in the country. Don't think for a second they wouldn't extend an invite to teams like Xavier, Temple, Butler, etc.

Weaken our already horrible bowl lineup. Check.
Give up the one strength of the conference to a competitor in the same footprint. Check.

Job well done.

Yep, the same Notre Dame that wants their cake and eat it, too. The same Notre Dame that voted against the BE contract with ESPN for football, even though, well, they don't play football in the Big East. Check. The same Notre Dame that whores out the Big East when it is convenient for them and uses them like a ten cent Thai prostitute. Yes, double check. That great Notre Dame partnership has really worked out well for UCONN, hasn't it? Triple check.

 

[gars44]

We don't have the votes to stay in the big east and expell ND. It would have to be a complete breakaway by the football schools, and bring in some weak basketball programs for all sports. But we'd have (assuming, that is) UConn, Ville, Cincy, West Virginia, all very good programs, with not so good USF, RU, TCU (assuming). That's why we would have to invite, for all sports, Temple, Memphis, Houston, ECU and my vote would be UCF. That's 12. That's 6 very good basketball programs, and enough football programs to maintain the BCS aq.

 

[nadav]

Right, kick out ND who's a national name in basketball and through their affiliation improves our awful bowl lineup.

Weaken our already horrible bowl lineup. Check.
Give up the one strength of the conference to a competitor in the same footprint. Check.

Job well done.

Our bowl lineup? Please tell me that is a joke. Notre Dame does nothing for Uconn -- its time we stop laying down for the Irish.

 

[Chuck]

Yep, the same Notre Dame that wants their cake and eat it, too. The same Notre Dame that voted against the BE contract with ESPN for football, even though, well, they don't play football in the Big East. Check. The same Notre Dame that whores out the Big East when it is convenient for them and uses them like a ten cent Thai prostitute. Yes, double check. That great Notre Dame partnership has really worked out well for UCONN, hasn't it? Triple check.

I never understood the term "have their cake and eat it too." Why the heck else would I want a cake if I couldn't eat it. Pretty useless.

I agree that ND has been a questionable partner, but it doesn't make sense to kick them out for two reasons:

(i) the Big East has been weakened. Syracuse and Pitt sucked at football, but they played the game AND they were strong in many (not all) other sports which the basketball-onlies tend to struggle in. The Big East is also weakened by a perceived lack of quality (even though subtracting Syracuse and Pitt football isn't much of a net loss if we can secure TCU and another mediocre program) so we actually may need ND's bowl tie-ins for a little while. We need to use them like they've used the Big East; at least for a while.

(ii) most things that I've read have UConn's best chance at landing in the ACC upon ND joining. Most agree that ND won't join unless they have no other good place to put their non-football sports. While that may seem to imply that kicking out ND would be good, if UConn leads that charge I would think ND would tell the ACC that they would join with RU or maybe even St. Mary's of Notre Dame, IN (I think the ACC will accept anyone with ND). Again, use the user.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Yep, the same Notre Dame that wants their cake and eat it, too. The same Notre Dame that voted against the BE contract with ESPN for football, even though, well, they don't play football in the Big East. Check. The same Notre Dame that whores out the Big East when it is convenient for them and uses them like a ten cent Thai prostitute. Yes, double check. That great Notre Dame partnership has really worked out well for UCONN, hasn't it? Triple check.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have a link about ND voting no to the new contract? Even if they voted no, they weren't the only ones to have voted against it. I've said it before but it would've sold ourselves short to have renewed a contract with ESPN instead of on an open market with NBC.

How does ND "use" BE when it's convenient for them. They are a basketball only member. That's their obligation to the Big East. I doubt they ever join a conference in football and if they did it sure as hell wasn't going to be the Big East.

As I mentioned before the Big East bowl line up sucks, and it would be even worse without ND. The Sun Bowl had a Big East/ND tie in and now our #2nd place bowl, Champs Sports Bowl, has a ND tie-in as well.

So, for those pro-splitting, you want to have the 3rd best basketball conference in our footprint, hurt our bowl lineup, and form a conference where the majority of teams are from the MAC and C-USA?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Our bowl lineup? Please tell me that is a joke. Notre Dame does nothing for Uconn -- its time we stop laying down for the Irish.

The Champs Sports Bowl will have the opportunity to select Notre Dame, in place of a BIG EAST team, once during the four-year agreement.

 

[nadav]

The Champs Sports Bowl will have the opportunity to select Notre Dame, in place of a BIG EAST team, once during the four-year agreement.

I get it, but that is not worth letting them stay in our league for. They use us and their presence in the league leaves us looking like amateurs. PLUS, if they are given the boot they might be actually forced to join a conference or at the very least tell the ACC they are not interested once and for all, so that the ACC can move on. Hopefully to UConn and Rutgers.

 

[RS9999X]

The article is a week old.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I get it, but that is not worth letting them stay in our league for. They use us and their presence in the league leaves us looking like amateurs. PLUS, if they are given the boot they might be actually forced to join a conference or at the very least tell the ACC they are not interested once and for all, so that the ACC can move on. Hopefully to UConn and Rutgers.

If we don't have Notre Dame, there's a chance our 2nd place team plays in Charlotte and our 3rd place team plays in the Pinstripe. I think that's worth keeping.

The basketball only schools won't vote out ND because in the case the Big East football conference dissolves they are going to want ND on their side for a new contract.

ND isn't joining a football conference if they have to play basketball and the other olympic sports in catholic only BE.

I think the ACC realizes ND isn't joining and I don't see them expanding anytime soon.

We need to keep our Big East brand the best we can during this time for our conference, not further weaken it.

 

[Rumrunner]

The article is a week old.

Ummm...it was published today at 27 September 2011, at 12:42 pm, to be precise.

With respect to ND voting on the football contract:
http://www.wndu.com/hometop/headlines/130247438.html

Note the headline:

Notre Dame gets good news on conference expansion front​

 

[gars44]

I never understood the term "have their cake and eat it too." Why the heck else would I want a cake if I couldn't eat it. Pretty useless.

Chuck, I've been waiting for someone to ask that question, because a few years ago I figured it out. So, I can help you, and others who have been long perplexed by this arcane expression. What it is, is, some people like to have their cake. They like to have it, show it off to others, walk around with it, it's just nice to have so you can eat it later.
But once you eat it, it's gone. You don't "have" it anymore. So you can't both "have" your cake and eat it too. You can have it for awhile and then eat it, but it's one or the other. This is a very valuable expression to have in your lexicon of expressions. It should be used often in conversation.

 

[gars44]

ND isn't joining a football conference if they have to play basketball and the other olympic sports in catholic only BE.

I'm sorry, but this is where I think you're wrong. I think ND does join a football conference if they have to play their non rev sports in the onlies conference. They don't want that. ND has a strong athletic program. None of the onlies can compete with that. Unless ND wants to disregard the remainder of their student athletes - which they do not - they would be pressured to start thinking about joining the 10 or the acc. Maybe not immediately, but it would start the discussion.

 

[Rumrunner]

If we don't have Notre Dame, there's a chance our 2nd place team plays in Charlotte and our 3rd place team plays in the Pinstripe. I think that's worth keeping.

The basketball only schools won't vote out ND because in the case the Big East football conference dissolves they are going to want ND on their side for a new contract.

ND isn't joining a football conference if they have to play basketball and the other olympic sports in catholic only BE.

I think the ACC realizes ND isn't joining and I don't see them expanding anytime soon.

We need to keep our Big East brand the best we can during this time for our conference, not further weaken it.

Lol...the Big East brand. Let me hear those flowery words again, "THE BIG EAST BRAND". Soon this powerful brand will include UCONN, Rutgers (soon to be the flagship school of the conference), USF, Houston (the 5th or 6th team in Texas behind AtM, UT, TCU, Baylor, Tech) the fifth school in North Carolina, ECU, the 6th school in Florida, UCF. Temple, which competes with PSU and Pitt...Temple...you know, the same team that got booted out a few short years ago for its horrific commitment to football (of course the budget of Temple and the State of Penn certainly has improved since that time...oh that's right, facts are a stubborn thing), Navy isn't coming aboard a sinking ship, Air Force is staying in the MWC. The Big East is a zombie conference. WVU is doing more to get into the SEC than UCONN into the ACC if you can fathom that. UofL practically has their bags packed for the Big 12 welcome party. Wrap your head around it. It is a zombie conference. But you'll have Notre Dame kind of in the conference.