Why is UConn giving up so many offensive rebounds..? Or are they..???

[boontonbomber]

But your explanation doesn't explain how Nina Davis a 5'11" player for Baylor is able to grab 17 Rebound s ( 7 off 10 def). She was out hustling Stef and others to get the rebounds she did. UConn players also did a poor job boxing her out. With the exception of Kiah, this UConn team doesn't have players that are instinctively in the right place or have quickness to get to the right place to be a great rebounding team. The team defense IMHO inflates their rebounding totals and with that said it doesn't mean they are a good rebounding team.

Am I concerned about the rebounding totals, no as this team has enough offense and plays good enough team defense to win it all. It will take an exceptional shooting day and great defense by an opponent if this team is to lose this year.

Well stated. IMHO, I've felt for awhile that rebounding has been the weakest part of Uconn's game. Except for Kiah, i think this group is trying to get by on size alone, especially Dolson. If you're not going to make a great effort, then you better be pretty sound fundamentally. Davis certainly showed them up the other night.

 

[msf22b]

Back to Nina Davis:
She was an outstanding rebounder in HS, her Baylor Bio credits her for Almost 1000
Some people just have a knack for getting under the ball…see Kelly Faris

With regard Ms Jefferson: Aside from a nose for the ball, she is fearlessly aggressive inside among the trees and is perhaps the most athletic leaper on the team, an impressive attribute but likely to be bettered next season by an incoming young high-jumper from Reno with alleged Olympic ability in this area (although not necessarily a better rebounder).

 

[stamfordhusky]

How would you interpret Sims' missed 3PT attempt in light of the rules? FGA, or no...?

And are you saying that the scorer likely did not charge her with a FG attempt ?

I didn't see the play. Had a business dinner. But I can tell you that the scorer definitely did not charge her with a FG attempt. Just check the play-by-play. That is normal for official scorers, whether or not the ball had left her hand.

 

[huskybill]

I didn't see the play. Had a business dinner. But I can tell you that the scorer definitely did not charge her with a FG attempt. Just check the play-by-play. That is normal for official scorers, whether or not the ball had left her hand.

This has always been my point. Along with psychiatrists and waitresses, official scorers have the most power in our society. YOU DID WHAT THE OFFICIAL SCORER SAYS YOU DID!

 

[huskybill]

I didn't see the play. Had a business dinner. But I can tell you that the scorer definitely did not charge her with a FG attempt. Just check the play-by-play. That is normal for official scorers, whether or not the ball had left her hand.

Meant to ask you. How were the waitresses at your business dinner?

 

[Icebear]

At #18 in the country and having out rebounded the #1 rebounding margin team 41-39 head to head and the same against #3 MD I hardly think rebounding is a real weakness. The earlier posts give great analysis of how rebounding stats can be distorted by shooting % and other aspects of the game like blocks.

 

[pap49cba]

A lot of people seem to think rebounding is all about height. It isn't. Just look at Kelly's stats for proof. Has it occurred to anyone that maybe Nina Davis is a REALLY GOOD rebounder? I guarantee you if the teams meet again this will be a point of emphasis for Geno and the staff.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Well stated. IMHO, I've felt for awhile that rebounding has been the weakest part of Uconn's game. Except for Kiah, i think this group is trying to get by on size alone, especially Dolson. If you're not going to make a great effort, then you better be pretty sound fundamentally. Davis certainly showed them up the other night.

Davis averages 1 rebound every 3 minutes on the nation's top rebounding team, which is a very good average and one that is bettered on the Huskies only by Stokes, who snags one every 2 1/3 minutes. As noted elsewhere as Dennis Rodman proved, height is only part of the equation of being a top rebounder along with positioning, leaping ability, and sense of where a carom is likely to go. I do believe the Huskies are giving an effort since they are collecting more rebounds than they did last year, but you are probably right that while trying to up their big blocks totals, Dolson and Stewart should be trying to collect the rebound off the block at the same time instead of letting any of them go out of bounds.

Another factor for the Huskies is they have played a lot of top teams this year, already six ranked\then-ranked teams in their first 18 games. The rebounding margin against good teams is always far less than against the poor teams, and the Huskies margin in the 6 games has been 4.5, less than half their overall margin. Yes, there are teams at the top of the rebounding charts like Baylor, Liberty and Maryland that have much higher margins than UConn, but Sagarin has their SOSs rated at 203rd, 227th, and 172nd. In all these analyses, context is important.

 

[UcMiami]

Well stated. IMHO, I've felt for awhile that rebounding has been the weakest part of Uconn's game. Except for Kiah, i think this group is trying to get by on size alone, especially Dolson. If you're not going to make a great effort, then you better be pretty sound fundamentally. Davis certainly showed them up the other night.

Yup - Dolson is obviously slacking off after last year ... not. She has just recently dropped below 10 per game (probably because of a couple of games with foul trouble) and is at 9.4 right now and Stewart is at 7.9 - this compares to 7.1 and 6.4 from last year respectively. I would say Dolson was getting by on size last year, but has made a concerted and successful effort to hunt rebounds this year.
A team throwing a lot of bricks and a good fast (if undersized) player getting a lot of boards is not that surprising, and Baylor is a very good rebounding team this year. It helps when your main scoring threat is a slashing guard with an amazing ability to get in the lane as this tends to occupy one or more of a defenses post players while allowing her teammates to stake out better rebounding position.
Uconn being ranked 18th in the country in rebounding margin and out rebounding the #1 team in the country in rebounding margin is not a bad place to start and I think sort of statistically proves your gut feeling to be indigestion.
(On a related note - Kiah just had a game with 18 rebounds - does anyone really think this is anything but a statistical anomaly? She is a great rebounder, but any time someone gets 15+ rebounds in a game it is a fluke of the bouncing ball.)

 

[Icebear]

Stef is using a completely different approach this year to the team's rebounding efforts. Last year she often boxed out one and two people off the boards allowing others to pursue the ball. This year she is pursuing the ball herself and getting to more of them. I expect that she recognized or the staff did and emphasized it to the team in practice the hole that Kelly's rebounding was going to leave and needed to replaced. Stef today being in much better shape and more athletic is also better suited to the pursuit of balls than she was in the past.

 

[Sonny44]

Great post, but I have a couple of comments. See within please.

Recently, a number of Boneyarders got their collective knickers in a twist over the number of offensive rebounds by UConn opponents. In fact, as of today opponents have 224 offensive boards and UConn has 225. Why so close? Are we not boxing out? Is this a flaw in an otherwise great defense?

After exhaustive research and a consultation with the master of everything statistical (Phil), I have the following to report. Pay attention, it will all be on the test.

1. Every missed shot must have a rebound credited to a person or a team. Depending on who took the shot, it is either an offensive or defensive rebound.

Not if the ball never comes down in bounds such as wedged in the iron or bounces over and behind the net, right?

2. There are 3 kinds of rebounds. Individual, "team" and "dead ball." Individual is easy to figure. Grab a missed shot, get credit. "Team" rebounds are credited when a shot misses, or is blocked, and goes out of bounds w/out anyone controlling it. "Dead ball" rebounds occur when a shot is missed while the clock is stopped. Like when the first of two free throws is missed. Only individual and team rebounds count in a team's total.

3. UConn has missed 576 shots this season. Opponents have missed 763. Therefore, opponents have had 187 more opportunities to get an "offensive" rebound. (If we get the ball, it is a defensive rebound, we have 557 of those kind.)

4. If UConn blocks a shot and the ball goes out of bounds, the opponent gets credit for an "offensive" rebound. So the defender gets credit for both a block and a rebound? UConn has blocked 161 shots. (vs only 41 by opponents) If 40% go out of bounds, that is 48 "offensive" rebounds credited to opponents who did nothing but get their shot blocked. If the opponent recovers a blocked shot, they also get credit for an "offensive" rebound.

5. If huskybill gets a rebound, it is called a miracle.

6. The Houston game is an example of how box score statistics can be misleading. Houston "out-rebounded" UConn 15-14 in offensive rebounds. But they missed 55 shots, UConn only missed 33. Lots more chances for them to get offensive boards. Plus 17 of the misses were blocked shots by UConn. If the ball went out of bounds or was controlled by them, another offensive rebound. Five (5) of their 15 rebounds in that game were "team" and many individual rebounds were off blocked shots.

So calm your palpitating hearts, UConn's defense is everything you think it is....and more.

Go Huskies..!!

 

[UcMiami]

Sonny - the ball bouncing over the backboard is a team rebound same as if the rebound bounced across the court and out of bounds without anyone touching it - The area above the backboard including the shot clock are considered out of bounds. But on your other example the wedge shot between the backboard and rim - that is considered a jump ball with possession being determined by the arrow and I would guess is not assigned to either team. I would guess that the same would be true for a dual possession rebound where neither person had possession prior to the tie-up. I may be wrong on both of those as getting tied up on offense when the arrow is pointing to the other team does get counted as a TO so maybe the wedge or a jump ball gets credited as a rebound to the team with the arrow.

 

[boontonbomber]

Yup - Dolson is obviously slacking off after last year ... not. She has just recently dropped below 10 per game (probably because of a couple of games with foul trouble) and is at 9.4 right now and Stewart is at 7.9 - this compares to 7.1 and 6.4 from last year respectively. I would say Dolson was getting by on size last year, but has made a concerted and successful effort to hunt rebounds this year.
A team throwing a lot of bricks and a good fast (if undersized) player getting a lot of boards is not that surprising, and Baylor is a very good rebounding team this year. It helps when your main scoring threat is a slashing guard with an amazing ability to get in the lane as this tends to occupy one or more of a defenses post players while allowing her teammates to stake out better rebounding position.
Uconn being ranked 18th in the country in rebounding margin and out rebounding the #1 team in the country in rebounding margin is not a bad place to start and I think sort of statistically proves your gut feeling to be indigestion.
(On a related note - Kiah just had a game with 18 rebounds - does anyone really think this is anything but a statistical anomaly? She is a great rebounder, but any time someone gets 15+ rebounds in a game it is a fluke of the bouncing ball.)

with uconn's size i don't think #18 is all that impressive. not a gut feeling-take a look at the boxing-out, or lack of, with the bigs. including kiah, who compensates by being very quick to the ball, probably because she got some rebounding genes from her dad.

 

[stamfordhusky]

But on your other example the wedge shot between the backboard and rim - that is considered a jump ball with possession being determined by the arrow and I would guess is not assigned to either team. I would guess that the same would be true for a dual possession rebound where neither person had possession prior to the tie-up. I may be wrong on both of those as getting tied up on offense when the arrow is pointing to the other team does get counted as a TO so maybe the wedge or a jump ball gets credited as a rebound to the team with the arrow.

Your final thought is the correct one. Any missed shot that ends up as a jump ball will produce a rebound for the team that gets possession due to the possession arrow.

When it comes to rebounds, basic accounting rules apply. Every missed shot - including the first shot of a two-shot FT, a missed shot at the buzzer, a missed shot that ends up as a jump ball, etc - MUST have a rebound. Statisticians in my day always added up the missed shots and rebounds and made sure they balanced. Now I assume the computer requires a rebound for each missed shot.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Although rebounding margin is a nice thing to have, it's not necessarily a prerequisite to having a great record, a winning record, or winning a game. Anyone who remembers the 2003 NC game where UConn was outrebounded 40-22 but still won fairly comfortably despite a UTenn late run will know that rebounds can be overrated. Texas had the 9th best margin last year and finished 12-18, and when poor teams like Gardner-Webb and East Tennessee can finish high up in the rebounding margin, you know that rebounding prowess comes with a lot of caveats. Accumulating rebounds is not that useful if you can't put the ball in the basket.

One of the stats that is the best indicator of team success is assists per game. Last year's top three teams were Baylor, ND, and UConn. If anyone ever starts a thread on the BY called "How come my great-grandmother can pass the ball better than the Huskies," then I know it's time to start worrying.

 

[Phil]

Very nicely done, David. I honestly did not know why you were asking those questions about rebounding, but now I see why you needed the answers.