Westbrook waiver denied

[Boxerpups4me]

The waiver situation with Evina boils down to simple contract law.Rather than appealing the NCAA decision, I would go to the courts seeking a reversal based on violation of contract. It is established knowledge that players pick schools based on a coach’s recruiting. When the coach involved in that recruiting is fired, it relieves the player from said contract, even if such is not stated in scholarship offer. A legal ruling to that effect would immediately simplify the waiver process.

evina was in the transfer portal before holly was fired, so that is a moot point

there are several very compelling reasons why evinas waiver should have been granted. for one, she was in a toxic environment for which she had no control over. during her two years at tennessee, two players were kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons. holly had lost control of the team and either refused to do anything about it or couldnt do anything about it. not only that but diamond deshields had enough and didnt return her senior year and alexa middleton transferred out. im sure evina didnt expect all this mess when she committed to tennessee nor should she have had to put up with it. also, there were fans who just constantly harrassed her and her mother on facebook. its a shame the ncaa didnt grant her waiver. hopefully she can get this appeal to go thru

 

[Only1coj]

evina was in the transfer portal before holly was fired, so that is a moot point

there are several very compelling reasons why evinas waiver should have been granted. for one, she was in a toxic environment for which she had no control over. during her two years at tennessee, two players were kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons. holly had lost control of the team and either refused to do anything about it or couldnt do anything about it. not only that but diamond deshields had enough and didnt return her senior year and alexa middleton transferred out. im sure evina didnt expect all this mess when she committed to tennessee nor should she have had to put up with it. also, there were fans who just constantly harrassed her and her mother on facebook. its a shame the ncaa didnt grant her waiver. hopefully she can get this appeal to go thru

1). How much weight does Volnation and FB have when it comes to “harassment”? It’s social media. Block them. 2) If she was in such a toxic situation why didn’t she transfer after her first year at UT? 3). Middleton wanted more playing time, which wasn’t going to happen due to her defense. 4). Many UT fans want what’s best for EW. What makes this all so messy is the politics behind it, especially when “people” throw accusations out that have no factual proof behind them.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not ignoring it, but noting that one reason folks here are saying she should get a waiver doesn't really seem to meet the specified criteria. Without know more about why she played with an injury (which, to be honest, I didn't notice based on her on court performance last season), it's also hard to know if that claim would meet the criteria either. There's a lot of speculation around here and almost no real facts. For example, CD also had surgery this off-season to deal with a nagging injury. Is that the result of Geno ignoring it and forcing her to play? Why do we think the circumstances are different? Just because we like Geno and hate the Vols?

 

[oldude]

Not ignoring it, but noting that one reason folks here are saying she should get a waiver doesn't really seem to meet the specified criteria. Without know more about why she played with an injury (which, to be honest, I didn't notice based on her on court performance last season), it's also hard to know if that claim would meet the criteria either. There's a lot of speculation around here and almost no real facts. For example, CD also had surgery this off-season to deal with a nagging injury. Is that the result of Geno ignoring it and forcing her to play? Why do we think the circumstances are different? Just because we like Geno and hate the Vols?

As I understand it, Crystal’s surgery was to correct a problem with the nature of her hip which was something she was born with. She had the exact same surgery with her other hip a year or 2 back. Crystal has been playing with some discomfort all of her life. As far as I know, Evina’s injury occurred at TN, so the two situations are not particularly similar.

 

[UConnCat]

We've heard about cases in which support (as opposed to no objection) by the original school has helped gain approval of a waiver petition. That was the case with Shepard's petition and has been true in both men's and women's basketball.

 

[UConnCat]

We've heard about cases in which support (as opposed to no objection) by the original school has helped gain approval of a waiver petition. That was the case with Shepard's petition and has been true in both men's and women's basketball.

On this point, listen to Geno starting at 10:00 mark. He talks about Tenn's neutral position (don't oppose, don't support) versus UConn's position which has been to always support a player's petition to play immediately. He notes the irony of Tenn recently complaining about not getting a waiver for a transfer on its men's team.

UConn Women's Basketball Postgame (Jefferson) - Geno Auriemma

UConn women's basketball head coach Geno Auriemma talks with the media after the exhibition game vs Jefferson on Sunday at Gampel Pavilion.

www.youtube.com

 

[Dooooooomed]

 

[UConnCat]

Oops

 

[UConnCat]

We hear ya Phil.

 

[oldude]

We hear ya Phil.

Seems to me that Fulmer could have just about cut and pasted David Benedict’s statement relative to the denial of Evina’s waiver request.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

as a tennessee fan myself, i hope fulmer does the right thing and supports evinas appeal process. she had to endure that whole mess with holly and just doesnt seem fair to me that she has to lose a whole year bc of it.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Jeff Jacobs Column: Jeff Jacobs: Messy NCAA waiver process only leaves more questions

According to Geno, Lady Vols didn't support Evina's transfer and that's why he thinks the Waiver wasn't Granted.

 

[Charliebball]

I'd say the odds of the NCAA changing their stance on Westbrook is about 100/1 and that's thinking positively...........................come on NCAA prove me wrong!!!!!

 

[oldude]

I'd say the odds of the NCAA changing their stance on Westbrook is about 100/1 and that's thinking positively...........................come on NCAA prove me wrong!!!!!

So you’re saying there’s a chance.....

 

[pvdoggy]

I'd say the odds of the NCAA changing their stance on Westbrook is about 100/1 and that's thinking positively...........................come on NCAA prove me wrong!!!!!

Would you give me just 50/1 odd on a bet?

 

[Only1coj]

as a tennessee fan myself, i hope fulmer does the right thing and supports evinas appeal process. she had to endure that whole mess with holly and just doesnt seem fair to me that she has to lose a whole year bc of it.

What mess?

 

[Jajhines23]

Since learning of Destiny Littleton’s waiver denial, I have been in an unsettled space. Then learning about Evina’s denial, I am even more bothered by it all.

As a mother, I think of my kids. Would they be equipped at 17/18 years old to make such a major life choice? I hope so but not necessarily sure. So why are certain (not all) athletes held to it, if it didn’t work out for whatever the reason. Whether it’s playing time, missing home, or something else. I am not saying kids (which is what they are, we as fans sometimes forget this) should just be able to transfer multiple times. But every kid regardless of sport should get one transfer without sitting, after that if they transfer they lose a year. On these recruiting visits the coaches entertain, show all the great stuff. These kids aren’t always mature enough see through that.

My heart is heavy for all these players denied waivers. What is gain from making them sit? Are we placing them on timeout for making the well paid adults mad? Well I don’t give my boys timeout if they didn’t understand the full choice they were making and alway give a warning before following through.

Anyway just some late night musing from a heart heavy mom.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Since learning of Destiny Littleton’s waiver denial, I have been in an unsettled space. Then learning about Evina’s denial, I am even more bothered by it all.

As a mother, I think of my kids. Would they be equipped at 17/18 years old to make such a major life choice? I hope so but not necessarily sure. So why are certain (not all) athletes held to it, if it didn’t work out for whatever the reason. Whether it’s playing time, missing home, or something else. I am not saying kids (which is what they are, we as fans sometimes forget this) should just be able to transfer multiple times. But every kid regardless of sport should get one transfer without sitting, after that if they transfer they lose a year. On these recruiting visits the coaches entertain, show all the great stuff. These kids aren’t always mature enough see through that.

My heart is heavy for all these players denied waivers. What is gain from making them sit? Are we placing them on timeout for making the well paid adults mad? Well I don’t give my boys timeout if they didn’t understand the full choice they were making and alway give a warning before following through.

Anyway just some late night musing from a heart heavy mom.

So there are lots of reasons to require either sitting out a year or having to be granted a waiver - without it, opposing coaches to scout promising players on opposing teams, recruit them covertly early in the season, and poach someone promising. Or consider a major injury to a starting player - why not call up their next-best-replacement at a mid-major and offer them a mid-season transfer and a starting spot?

If you don't require sitting out a year, it opens up a lot of cans of worms. And note that the NCAA only requires it for sports with sufficient prominence (and revenue) that this poses a problem.

Note also that these athletes who have to sit out get a year of free tuition and living expenses and still get to practice and play in scrimmages, and can even get a masters or start on a professional degree (as former Husky transfer-out Courtney Ekmark did after sitting out at ASU for a year and eventually getting two years of law school paid for while playing for CTT). I'm not sure why I'm supposed to feel that bad for EW - she's getting a free year of UConn education and she knew when she left that there'd be a risk that she'd have to sit out a year.

I totally understand the fans' desire to have a star player like EW be made available ASAP, but there are really good reasons, systemically, to guard against automatic transfers.

 

[ghost]

what you say sounds great if it were applied equally. It has not been.

 

[UConnCat]

what you say sounds great if it were applied equally. It has not been.

Exactly.

All transfers should have the right to play immediately. If a transfer believes it’s in his or her best interest to sit out a year, that option is always available.

 

[oldude]

What mess?

 

[Jajhines23]

So there are lots of reasons to require either sitting out a year or having to be granted a waiver - without it, opposing coaches to scout promising players on opposing teams, recruit them covertly early in the season, and poach someone promising. Or consider a major injury to a starting player - why not call up their next-best-replacement at a mid-major and offer them a mid-season transfer and a starting spot?

If you don't require sitting out a year, it opens up a lot of cans of worms. And note that the NCAA only requires it for sports with sufficient prominence (and revenue) that this poses a problem.

Note also that these athletes who have to sit out get a year of free tuition and living expenses and still get to practice and play in scrimmages, and can even get a masters or start on a professional degree (as former Husky transfer-out Courtney Ekmark did after sitting out at ASU for a year and eventually getting two years of law school paid for while playing for CTT). I'm not sure why I'm supposed to feel that bad for EW - she's getting a free year of UConn education and she knew when she left that there'd be a risk that she'd have to sit out a year.

I totally understand the fans' desire to have a star player like EW be made available ASAP, but there are really good reasons, systemically, to guard against automatic transfers.

I get that poaching players can happen, but to punish the many or the possible actions of the few. And do we honestly believe that is not happening already. The inconsistencies within this whole waiver process, just adds additional stress on these kids. Who gets one, who doesn’t, to me it’s just all unnecessary.

Last thought, all I really want is clearer rules. I can’t imagine hearing oh your story and pain etc isn’t good enough to allow you to play the sport you love but some other kid’s story is.

 

[oldude]

So there are lots of reasons to require either sitting out a year or having to be granted a waiver - without it, opposing coaches to scout promising players on opposing teams, recruit them covertly early in the season, and poach someone promising. Or consider a major injury to a starting player - why not call up their next-best-replacement at a mid-major and offer them a mid-season transfer and a starting spot?

If you don't require sitting out a year, it opens up a lot of cans of worms. And note that the NCAA only requires it for sports with sufficient prominence (and revenue) that this poses a problem.

Note also that these athletes who have to sit out get a year of free tuition and living expenses and still get to practice and play in scrimmages, and can even get a masters or start on a professional degree (as former Husky transfer-out Courtney Ekmark did after sitting out at ASU for a year and eventually getting two years of law school paid for while playing for CTT). I'm not sure why I'm supposed to feel that bad for EW - she's getting a free year of UConn education and she knew when she left that there'd be a risk that she'd have to sit out a year.

I totally understand the fans' desire to have a star player like EW be made available ASAP, but there are really good reasons, systemically, to guard against automatic transfers.

Except that it only applies to revenue sports like football and basketball. If an AA swimmer wants to leave Stanford for the warmer climate of UCLA, they might be out of their mind for doing so, but neither Stanford nor the NCAA could require them to sit out a season before competing at their new school.

There in lies the hypocrisy of the NCAA’s transfer rules. It has nothing to do with what is best for the student-athlete. It is entirely about $$$$.

 

[Charliebball]

Would you give me just 50/1 odd on a bet?

I wouldn't but I think you could get that bet at one of the sports betting sites in New Jersey.....................

 

[TheFarmFan]

Guys, I feel like you aren't reading my post and just responding to your feelings.

I said:

If you don't require sitting out a year, it opens up a lot of cans of worms. And note that the NCAA only requires it for sports with sufficient prominence (and revenue) that this poses a problem.

Except that it only applies to revenue sports like football and basketball. If an AA swimmer wants to leave Stanford for the warmer climate of UCLA, they might be out of their mind for doing so, but neither Stanford nor the NCAA could require them to sit out a season before competing at their new school.

There in lies the hypocrisy of the NCAA’s transfer rules. It has nothing to do with what is best for the student-athlete. It is entirely about $$$$.

So yes, it is about money - preventing high-$$$$ sports from creating pernicious incentives for coaches, athletes, and boosters. But I already said that.

I also feel like people are making claims they can't actually substantiate.

what you say sounds great if it were applied equally. It has not been.

How do we know this? The "documented mitigating circumstances outside the student-athlete’s control" are generally not made public, so in most circumstances, precisely what's in the waiver application isn't publicly known. So how do we know whether or not that's the case? Can anyone honestly say they know what was in Westbrook's application vs. Shepard's? No, you can't. You could call for more transparency, but because of student privacy concerns, they're never going to make this process as transparent as, say, criminal sentencing hearings, where judges treat defendants sentenced for the same crime of conviction differently all the time, but because they have to give public reasons, there's a public process to verify good versus bad reasons for the differential treatment.

Ultimately, the problem here is that there's no transparency, but because this concerns the private information of students, there can't be. The NCAA could certainly provide more details about the process, factors weighed, etc. But ultimately, this has to be done behind closed doors.

And honestly, UConn of all places should like the NCAA process. Get rid of it, and private schools and state schools with richer budgets than UConn can just start buying off your players. That may not succeed during the Geno era, but Geno won't be coaching forever, and someday you may find yourself on the other side of some of these transfer decisions.