Wake may not want to pay players...

[Calamitous]

Really old article, but this could knock them out of the P5 and out of the ACC.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2...reatens-to-drop-football-if-players-get-paid/

I have long thought that Wake was more in the CAA category. The irony is that Grobe actually won the ACC at Wake not too long ago.

 

[upstater]

Really old article, but this could knock them out of the P5 and out of the ACC.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2...reatens-to-drop-football-if-players-get-paid/

I have long thought that Wake was more in the CAA category. The irony is that Grobe actually won the ACC at Wake not too long ago.

Makes sense that they would drop it.

 

[Calamitous]

Makes sense that they would drop it.

That article is a year old, but in light of last nights debacle against ULM... it makes me wonder. One could have said the same thing about Baylor just several years ago, but now they're the pride of the Big XII. A conference cable network (even a fledgling one) would bring Wake enough money to handle the pay for play. If not, I wonder what other P5 schools (if any) are considering a drop down?

 

[upstater]

That article is a year old, but in light of last nights debacle against ULM... it makes me wonder. One could have said the same thing about Baylor just several years ago, but now they're the pride of the Big XII. A conference cable network (even a fledgling one) would bring Wake enough money to handle the pay for play. If not, I wonder what other P5 schools (if any) are considering a drop down?

At a place like WF with low athletics attendance, it's a hard slog, even with an additional $10m a year from the ACC. Think of Maryland losing all that money. If you're WF and your tuition is well above the cost per student (i.e. expenditures per student) then any of the losses are subsidized by parents who pay full tuition.

 

[CL82]

That article is a year old, but in light of last nights debacle against ULM... it makes me wonder. One could have said the same thing about Baylor just several years ago, but now they're the pride of the Big XII. A conference cable network (even a fledgling one) would bring Wake enough money to handle the pay for play. If not, I wonder what other P5 schools (if any) are considering a drop down?

My guess, no one. As long as TV money dramatically exceeds operationg costs and the cost of paying players "the full cost of attendance" why would they? Now after coaching salaries, soak up a bigger piece of the TV revenue, maybe.

 

[upstater]

My guess, no one. As long as TV money dramatically exceeds operationg costs and the cost of paying players "the full cost of attendance" why would they? Now after coaching salaries, soak up a bigger piece of the TV revenue, maybe.

TV money goes up about what, 2 or $3m a year? Maryland still blew $25m holes in its budget despite earning $18-20m from the ACC.

 

[billybud]

Don't you think that President Hatch's statement supporting Emmert and the NCAA position was that of his role as the Chair of the Division I Board of Directors?

A lot of "scare" statements....including this laugher from Delaney...

"The head of the Big Ten painted a dire picture of what college sports would look like in his testimony, saying his conference likely would cease to exist and the Rose Bowl probably would not be played.

Jim Delany said the idea of paying players goes against the entire college experience and that he couldn't see league members agreeing to it. If some did, he said, they likely would be kicked out of the conference because the move would create an imbalance among schools that could not be resolved.

"There wouldn't be a Rose Bowl if either they or we were operating in a very different wavelength in terms of paying players," Delany said.

 

[billybud]

Sooo...The Big Ten would cease to exist? No. Just all words.

 

[bingethinker]

TV money goes up about what, 2 or $3m a year? Maryland still blew $25m holes in its budget despite earning $18-20m from the ACC.

Good point, well taken but it was Maryland's former AD Debbie Yow who ran the department into the red. When she was foolishly spending money like it grew on trees, ACC payouts were in the $11m-$13m range. It wasn't until the last couple of years that the ACC has approached $20m range.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Sooo...The Big Ten would cease to exist? No. Just all words.

Ok. Try these words.

The Big Ten athletic conference could cease to exist in its current form (D1 football, big time budget, non-revenue-sport power house). All members would have to pay players or the "imbalance" he talks about is very plausible, and that would be the end of the athletic conference as we know it. The people that run most Big Ten schools don't see their identity wrapped up in athletics as we tend to do, and that is what Delany is conveying here.

As for the Rose Bowl... It could also cease to exist in its current form because of the imbalance. California is quick to cut taxes when given an opportunity, and along with Stanford (but probably not USC) I could see the California schools resisting paying players.

And if all the players were paid, I could see the Rose Bowl becoming a taxable entity. I think colleges would back off playing the game in that case because of the precedence it would set for ALL of college football. That could be wild speculation, but these bowl games ceased to become local "charities" long ago.

 

[upstater]

Good point, well taken but it was Maryland's former AD Debbie Yow who ran the department into the red. When she was foolishly spending money like it grew on trees, ACC payouts were in the $11m-$13m range. It wasn't until the last couple of years that the ACC has approached $20m range.

I suspect WF is worse off, but we don't really know.
I

 

[bingethinker]

I suspect WF is worse off, but we don't really know.
I

Just my opinion, but I don't think Wake ought to have a seat at the big boys table. They just aren't committed to athletics at the P5 level.

 

[CL82]

TV money goes up about what, 2 or $3m a year? Maryland still blew $25m holes in its budget despite earning $18-20m from the ACC.

So there going to be like what $20-25M in the black in the B1G?

 

[upstater]

So there going to be like what $20-25M in the black in the B1G?

come again?

 

[Calamitous]

come again?

Time will tell with schools struggling to meet the bottom line. If a school feels like it needs to spend as much money as Michigan or Wisconsin just to keep up with the Jones, $25 million won't be enough.

On the flip side, Wake's athletic department (small as it is) is probably healthier than Miami's and a few other ACC programs.

 

[FDNY99]

Time will tell with schools struggling to meet the bottom line. If a school feels like it needs to spend as much money as Michigan or Wisconsin just to keep up with the Jones, $25 million won't be enough.

On the flip side, Wake's athletic department (small as it is) is probably healthier than Miami's and a few other ACC programs.

If I'm a fan at BC or Syracuse I have to start wondering if there are $ problems cropping up. At Cuse Scott Schaefer is the best coach you can hire for a program in the ACC that has good past program history...and at BC the athletic dept with their recent men's hoops hire has pretty much told fans they are throwing in the towel in that sport.

 

[frankthetank]

Every P5 conference commissioner, university president and athletic director is a complete liar with respect to any supposed money crunches. They (whether it's Texas or Wake Forest) have PLENTY of money to pay for facilities, players and coaches. Don't believe a word of their posturing to try to avoid compensating student athletes. The Big Ten and Wake Forests of the world aren't dropping to D3 - they're just whining because their ability to make tens of millions of dollars off of free talent is about to go away (and I say that as a Big Ten guy). They'll all pay up - paying students is a drop in the bucket compared to the facilities palaces that they're already spending money on.

 

[FDNY99]

Every P5 conference commissioner, university president and athletic director is a complete liar with respect to any supposed money crunches. They (whether it's Texas or Wake Forest) have PLENTY of money to pay for facilities, players and coaches. Don't believe a word of their posturing to try to avoid compensating student athletes. The Big Ten and Wake Forests of the world aren't dropping to D3 - they're just whining because their ability to make tens of millions of dollars off of free talent is about to go away (and I say that as a Big Ten guy). They'll all pay up - paying students is a drop in the bucket compared to the facilities palaces that they're already spending money on.

I agree with you 100% on that Frank...but if you take a look at the 2 hires I mentioned...it sure looks like they are trying to do it on the cheap. At least when Pernetti replaced Schiano with Flood he was upfront about the $ issues RU had.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Schools like Wake are in a different spot then the publics. Wake competes for students with elite private schools like the Ivies and the UAA schools. I think it is unlikely they would pass up the net revenue, but it is not out of the question that they or Vanderbilt draw the line at paying players. U of Chicago still gets a lot of mileage from discontinuing a powerhouse football program 80 years ago because it was contrary to their mission as a university. The vast majority of the students at a school like Wake do not identify with the other ACC student bodies or think much of a "rivalry". They think they are superior to Clemson students, and they are right for the most part. Paying players makes Wake a semi-pro program, and there is a stigma that will attach to that when it comes to attracting top students, and more importantly, top faculty.

I thought paying players was going to be a very tough line for the Wakes and Vanderbilts to cross. We shall see.

 

[Calamitous]

Schools like Wake are in a different spot then the publics. Wake competes for students with elite private schools like the Ivies and the UAA schools. I think it is unlikely they would pass up the net revenue, but it is not out of the question that they or Vanderbilt draw the line at paying players. U of Chicago still gets a lot of mileage from discontinuing a powerhouse football program 80 years ago because it was contrary to their mission as a university. The vast majority of the students at a school like Wake do not identify with the other ACC student bodies or think much of a "rivalry". They think they are superior to Clemson students, and they are right for the most part. Paying players makes Wake a semi-pro program, and there is a stigma that will attach to that when it comes to attracting top students, and more importantly, top faculty.

I thought paying players was going to be a very tough line for the Wakes and Vanderbilts to cross. We shall see.

Many AAU schools (I assume UAA was meant to be AAU) aren't as elite as you may think. UConn, VT, Alabama and a few others are ranked higher than a dozen or so AAU schools in various rankings, just as an example. And as a university, Wake is a highly ranked school, but not quite Ivy status. Wake is more in line with USC, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, Brandeis and Boston College. All great schools, but not quite as elite as the Ivy.

And alumni/students who think they are more superior to another because they studied at a particular university are extremely misled. Some of the most impressive people I know have never seen one day on a college campus. Some of the less impressive people I know have a shiny diploma from a big name or top university. Not implying anything about anyone's school, but education is what you make of it. As for me... I'm in the fat part of the bell curve

 

[pj]

I agree with you 100% on that Frank...but if you take a look at the 2 hires I mentioned...it sure looks like they are trying to do it on the cheap. At least when Pernetti replaced Schiano with Flood he was upfront about the $ issues RU had.

At some point, it becomes a question of who gets to milk the athletics cash cow. There are plenty of university administrators who would like to raise their salary to 1/4 what the football or basketball coach makes. Now that media rights at the conference level are the main payday, it matters little whether teams win or lose, the payout will be the same. Might as well skimp on the sport and use the money elsewhere. Let the ten biggest football factories win all the championships.

 

[Calamitous]

There are plenty of university administrators who would like to raise their salary to 1/4 what the football or basketball coach makes.

Very true statement for the majority of schools. But some coaches actually put a school on the map and become Nationally recognized. Calhoun earned every penny he made in that respect and made Connecticut a brand name. So did Paterno, Beamer and a few others. That's because they built programs and made their schools recognizable and lured students to their school. Admissions increased, waiting lists started and a buzz started about the schools. Before you know it, money starts flowing though the campus and a university begins to develop into a "place to be." University presidents can work their entire career and never achieve that kind of success for their university.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

Very true statement for the majority of schools. But some coaches actually put a school on the map and become Nationally recognized. Calhoun earned every penny he made in that respect and made Connecticut a brand name. So did Paterno, Beamer and a few others. That's because they built programs and made their schools recognizable and lured students to their school. Admissions increased, waiting lists started and a buzz started about the schools. Before you know it, money starts flowing though the campus and a university begins to develop into a "place to be." University presidents can work their entire career and never achieve that kind of success for their university.

 

[Dooley]

Friggin' Wake. How they've been grandfathered into the P5 while we sit on the sidelines p1sses me off each and every time I'm reminded of it.

 

[Fishy]

Everyone write this down because it will save us a hell of a lot of time going forward.

Wake Forest is not leaving the ACC, the P5 or wherever some of you have them retreating from.

Never, ever, never, ever, ever, never. No one will ever give that up and no one will have to if their present conference survive. Either way, demotions won't help us.