USC #1 & #2

[Tonyc]

It is very hard for me to believe that if Azzi and Jana are healthy and with the addition of Strong and Chen along with Paige that any team is better then UConn. If Healthy. If Healthy is a question mark. This UConn team which was a FF team adding the number 1 player on Hoopgurlz along with Morgan and Allie and bringing back their injured and I understand that some of those coming back from injury may not be available right away how can they not be number 1? I believe its UConn SC and everybody else. Everybody else being Texas ND USC. I do realize that we dont know how good those coming back from injury will be and those freshman coming in may not be up to college level right away. I do know that without them we made the FF. Thats where I coming from. When you have scorers/shooters like Paige Azzi Sarah Kaitlyn and Jana its hard for me to think that any team can keep up with them. Add in our roster from the FF and we are really really good. Let me also mention our defense is even better now.

Our bench is full of shooter/scorers. Its all gonna come down to who's healthy. I guess the forecasters figure health is a question mark that needs to be answered first before making UConn number 1. I also think that some people in WCBB dont want to believe that UConn is back and in a big way. The future with Gandy and the BIG O should help make them believe even though they may not like it.

 

[visitingcock]

South Carolina has never gone by SC.

And Southern Cal is frequently called SC.

 

[Bone Dog]

if Azzi and Jana are healthy... If Healthy. If Healthy is a question mark.

I don't mean to disagree with you, since I share pretty much all of your optimism. The thing is, I have very little patience for the "if healthy" caveat that has been repeated about 63,456 times in just this past week on the BY.

This is an opinion I suspect you share with me, and united perhaps we can get others to see the truth of it too:

The off-season shouldn't be wasted with anxieties about possible things that could go wrong. We get no extra points for starting early with the worries. There will be plenty of time for that later. This is the moment for unbridled optimism. This is why I will always assume that the huskies will return in due time, recover game shape quickly, and play healthy for the entire season. That's the only scenario I'm interested in speculating on at this point.

 

[Rowdy831]

JuJu is a very good player bit not great, yet. She shoots a pretty poor percentage, she is an average passer and she will still need to carry her team. At 6'2 there will be many players who can defend her and at least make her take tough shots which she really doesn't mind doing. Now if she decides to just take her girl to the bucket every possession she is a whole different player and could be unstoppable. Kiki is average to above average but again not overly tall so she can be defended. I really don't see USC being a whole lot better than they were this year. In fact I think UCLA is the team to beat and that is because they will have a really long team that will be difficult to match up with.

South Carolina will be good but they will be very beatable too. Sure they only lost one player but that one player is the one no other team could really match up with. Every other player they have is solid but defendable which means they can and will be beat. I do think UConn and South Carolina do have an advantage over heavy portal teams in their team chemistry and that coupled with their talent give them the edge over both UCLA and USC. They will be 1-2 and should be.

All this is based on all the teams being healthy.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

"average to above average?"

 

[Rowdy831]

Uconn did a nice job getting Strong to come. But we still haven't been able to recruit a center. We need a a center to backup Janna. She is coming back from major surgery. I can't believe that we haven't gotten a big in the last couple of years. Do we need another recruiter that can bring in Bigs ?

UConn doesn't run an offense that needs a true post player. They only need a tall person to defend the other team's tall player. They have plenty of height to beat any other team out there. Only UCLA is going to have two players taller than 6'4 capable of starting and doubt they will.

 

[Rowdy831]

Top 5-6, not top 2 IMO.

NO team in the country has better players than UConn top to bottom. Last year they were a top 4 team with at least 2 starters sitting on the bench for the whole season. Now in some cases they didn't have the right match ups but how would that have been different if Jana was playing along side AE? Fact is they may not be top 2 in the "official ranking" but once they play everyone they will be.

The big question with them is can they keep their players healthy? If they can they will handle their business and bring home #12

 

[Rowdy831]

South Carolina is easily #1. Best program in the country and has been for years. They are what UConn was a decade ago. For the upcoming season I'd put USC at #2. Is there a better duo in the country than JuJu+KiKi? After them there are a bunch of teams with key players making their way back from significant injury/surgery, and where they fall will be based on who is available when.

They have had the best post player lately but their coach always provides you an opportunity to get a win if you can match up with them.

 

[hoophuskee]

"average to above average?"

She's a superstar. Her level of play for a frosh was off-the-charts. And in her interview she said the exact thing she is hoping to improve which is efficiency. But her Efficicency for what she had to do was amazing.

 

[visitingcock]

JuJu is a very good player bit not great, yet. She shoots a pretty poor percentage, she is an average passer and she will still need to carry her team. At 6'2 there will be many players who can defend her and at least make her take tough shots which she really doesn't mind doing. Now if she decides to just take her girl to the bucket every possession she is a whole different player and could be unstoppable. Kiki is average to above average but again not overly tall so she can be defended. I really don't see USC being a whole lot better than they were this year. In fact I think UCLA is the team to beat and that is because they will have a really long team that will be difficult to match up with.

South Carolina will be good but they will be very beatable too. Sure they only lost one player but that one player is the one no other team could really match up with. Every other player they have is solid but defendable which means they can and will be beat. I do think UConn and South Carolina do have an advantage over heavy portal teams in their team chemistry and that coupled with their talent give them the edge over both UCLA and USC. They will be 1-2 and should be.

All this is based on all the teams being healthy.

Time for another "SCar is beatable" thread. (no, I don't expect us to run the table again.

 

[LoTrader]

Watch out for UCLA. Quite the lineup with the addition of Ledger-Walker and Timea Gardiner.

 

[CalWBBfan]

USC should not be preseason #1. South Carolina should be preseason #1.

The thought experiment that goes into preseason rankings is not complicated, but is subjective. It starts with the final 2023 rankings, adjusted for (a) departures, (b) incoming recruits, (c) incoming transfers, (d) recovering players, and adjusted for the coaching staff’s history of making lineups work.

2023-24 Women's College Basketball Rankings - ESPN

Thought Experiment 1: South Carolina vs USC:

• South Carolina lost Cardoso. Adds #3 Freshman (forward Joyce Edwards). Was #1 (undefeated). Dawn 2023 COY. ==> Pre-season #1.
• USC lost 6 players (including #2, #4, #5, #8 scorers 2023-24 USC Trojans Women's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com). Adds Kiki Iriafen, TVO. Adds 6 Freshmen (3 guards (#13, #16, #54), 1 wing (#6), 2 forwards (#47, #92)). Was #5. Gottlieb. ==> Should not be pre-season #1.

Thought Experiment 2: UConn vs ND vs Texas:

• There seems to be disparate treatment of recovering stars by ESPN and others. ND with Miles goes from #11 to #3. TX with Harmon goes from #7 to #2.
• UConn with Azzi and Jana, Kaitlyn replacing Nika, missing Aaliyah but adding heralded freshmen (#1 Sarah, #7 Allie and #11 Morgan), and going from 7 to 10 playable players to start the season and with Geno coming from one of his best coaching years, goes from #3 to #4. UConn has All-American and only returning former Player of the Year Paige.
• Texas does add talented freshmen (guard ranked #9 and forward ranked #12). Notre Dame adds #5 freshman post.

My top 5 before any season play: 1 South Carolina, 2 UConn, 3 Texas, 4 USC, 5 Notre Dame.

South Carolina has a better coach than U$C.

 

[triaddukefan]

Watch out for UCLA. Quite the lineup with the addition of Ledger-Walker and Timea Gardiner.

Do you trust their Coach.. the McCallie of Westwood?

 

[LwrcasefaN]

South Carolina should be unanimous #1. They have everyone but Cardoso back and Watkins is perfect to fill her spot with no drop off defensively. When Cardoso was out, South Carolina was still incredibly dominant. They are deeper and more athletic in the post than any other team and bring in good HS talent to supplement both the backcourt and front court. They went undefeated last year and played elite level basketball on both ends of the court. Coaching wise, Dawn is on another level at the moment. She has won 4 of the last 5 COY awards and has had the best program in women’s basketball the last 5 years, going 167-9 over that time frame and 109-3 in the last 3 seasons. No question in my mind they’ll start out #1.

USC’s good on paper but is far from a sure thing, as it’ll be a brand new lineup aside from Juju Watkins and Rayah Marshall. There is a lot of talent and the pieces are there but it’ll require a better offensive system than they had this year, as well as incorporating players used to playing in very different offensive systems. I think both UCONN and Texas look like stronger teams to start the year, largely due to coaching and they both have standouts returning. UCONN’s main question mark is post play, as a lot of fans are putting their hopes on a freshman coming off an ACL, but they have Bueckers who will be an early favorite for POY and bring in the #1 recruit in Strong to help on the wing. Texas is looking rock solid on paper but Madison Booker will have to adjust to playing off ball after a brilliant year as a freshman point guard. Texas also will have to incorporate Phelia who will have a reduced role in Austin, so I expect them to have ups and downs as players figure out their positions. IMO, South Carolina is the only sure thing going into next year, but many teams have a lot of potential, including LSU who people are underestimating despite having one of the most athletic lineups in the country and an all time great coach.

I'm not convinced that Watkins is the perfect defensive replacement for Cardoso. Good defender no doubt, but better off ball in the trenches as a help defender in my opinion. Athletic, but I can see her getting into foul trouble trying to defend a traditional 5 or big bodied post player without help. Seems a little light in the pants to be banging with bigs all game.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

South Carolina has a better coach than U$C.

I sort-of implied that. It took Gottlieb having Juju and 6 seniors to come knocking at a final four. Can she replicate it with 8 incomers? She could but it is overly generous to assume she would.

 

[triaddukefan]

I'm not convinced that Watkins is the perfect defensive replacement for Cardoso. Good defender no doubt, but better off ball in the trenches as a help defender in my opinion. Athletic, but I can see her getting into foul trouble trying to defend a traditional 5 or big bodied post player without help. Seems a little light in the pants to be banging with bigs all game.

How many teams have big body posts? Oklahoma, UCLA... Who else?

 

[LwrcasefaN]

How many teams have big body posts? Oklahoma, UCLA... Who else?

Those are gigantic. Plenty of teams have big bodied post players at the 4 and 5s. I wouldn't be surprised if Watkins plays just as much as a 4 as a 5. And then there's the scoring part of Cardoso that has to be replaced...I don't see that happening from Watkins, though certainly they have options. Maybe she's the next Dennis Rodman, but I'm taking a wait and see approach.

 

[visitingcock]

How many teams have big body posts? Oklahoma, UCLA... Who else?

Audi Crooks at Iowa State

 

[Vowelguy]

Do you trust their Coach.. the McCallie of Westwood?

Has Close started referring to 50 point losses as "learning experiences?"

Also, how dare you use that avatar on a CT-based board.

 

[sharris25]

Those are gigantic. Plenty of teams have big bodied post players at the 4 and 5s. I wouldn't be surprised if Watkins plays just as much as a 4 as a 5. And then there's the scoring part of Cardoso that has to be replaced...I don't see that happening from Watkins, though certainly they have options. Maybe she's the next Dennis Rodman, but I'm taking a wait and see approach.

These takes are so ludicrous and just seem to rewrite history. If the supposed measuring stick for a few of you are Uconn, then lets s revisit who Ashlyn Watkins is. She was the person who started at center when Cardosa was out of the country for four games, all of which she played better than average. One of which was against Uconn and Aaliyah Edwards who as we all know now was a top 5 draft pick. Lets see she had 15pts, 9 rbs, 3 assists, 3 Blocks, and 2 steals. This was against one of the best posts in the country and no matter what you think of the potential of an Alfay or Brady, they were not A. Edwards. She finished that game with 3 fouls however. Of note she never fouled out of a game but fg, shooting and foul awareness can always be improved. Also during the Oregon State game she had an outstanding game against Beers and whoever Oregon State threw out there when Kamilla was out of the game and in the second half when she was in foul trouble.. Also she was chosen to defend L. Betts during the Jordan Brand Classic and held her to two points because of her strength and athleticism. Watkins was the strongest player on the team despite what someone said was her slight frame. As Taurasi stated during the Natinoal Championship Team, she has a pro ready body and athleticism that can defend 1-5. Her offensive play led to a timeout during the Uconn game in the first quarter of that blowout for which Geno stated, we had a plan for her that obviously is not working and we will have to adjust to even have a chance. Ashlyn along with Feagin's play toward the end of the season effectively will replace Cardosa's offense, if you are looking at the numbers, and you are adding in Edwards, whom showed what she could do in the three all star games against some of the incoming talent that some of you are using to make an argument for in making SC very beatable. Watkins led the team in Blocks and was neck and neck all year with Kamilla in rebounds. This does not even take into account Tac, for which Dawn has stated defensively, is as talented and smart as Boston. Frankly most of the players coming back have not played any significant minutes for Uconn at the college level to base any type of success or lack of success on. Fudd and Aubrey are the only proven players that have real credibility as it relates to on court sucess for Geno, and Watkins, Feagin, Hall, Johnson, have played games with both in the game along with Beuckers and Frankly some of your better post players of the past three years and have won. I will wait unitl all of these returns and additions show me something on the floor before I would advance them past a team that is 38-0 and has added a few impact pieces even in the face of the loss of Kamilla

 

[LwrcasefaN]

These takes are so ludicrous and just seem to rewrite history. If the supposed measuring stick for a few of you are Uconn, then lets s revisit who Ashlyn Watkins is. She was the person who started at center when Cardosa was out of the country for four games, all of which she played better than average. One of which was against Uconn and Aaliyah Edwards who as we all know now was a top 5 draft pick. Lets see she had 15pts, 9 rbs, 3 assists, 3 Blocks, and 2 steals. This was against one of the best posts in the country and no matter what you think of the potential of an Alfay or Brady, they were not A. Edwards. She finished that game with 3 fouls however. Of note she never fouled out of a game but fg, shooting and foul awareness can always be improved. Also during the Oregon State game she had an outstanding game against Beers and whoever Oregon State threw out there when Kamilla was out of the game and in the second half when she was in foul trouble.. Also she was chosen to defend L. Betts during the Jordan Brand Classic and held her to two points because of her strength and athleticism. Watkins was the strongest player on the team despite what someone said was her slight frame. As Taurasi stated during the Natinoal Championship Team, she has a pro ready body and athleticism that can defend 1-5. Her offensive play led to a timeout during the Uconn game in the first quarter of that blowout for which Geno stated, we had a plan for her that obviously is not working and we will have to adjust to even have a chance. Ashlyn along with Feagin's play toward the end of the season effectively will replace Cardosa's offense, if you are looking at the numbers, and you are adding in Edwards, whom showed what she could do in the three all star games against some of the incoming talent that some of you are using to make an argument for in making SC very beatable. Watkins led the team in Blocks and was neck and neck all year with Kamilla in rebounds. This does not even take into account Tac, for which Dawn has stated defensively, is as talented and smart as Boston. Frankly most of the players coming back have not played any significant minutes for Uconn at the college level to base any type of success or lack of success on. Fudd and Aubrey are the only proven players that have real credibility as it relates to on court sucess for Geno, and Watkins, Feagin, Hall, Johnson, have played games with both in the game along with Beuckers and Frankly some of your better post players of the past three years and have won. I will wait unitl all of these returns and additions show me something on the floor before I would advance them past a team that is 38-0 and has added a few impact pieces even in the face of the loss of Kamilla

When you take out a 6' 7" center out of your defense...things change. Nothing ludicrous about that fact. In the end...it's why we play the game. And I wasn't talking about UCONN because this was a USC/SC thread. In any case, they too have unchartered waters to navigate. Some of you folks are a tad too sensitive. Every team is beatable. No?

 

[cancontent]

Audi Crooks at Iowa State

How tall is Crooks? Thought Triad was referring to posts who were in the 6'4"+ range when they asked the question.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

UConn doesn't run an offense that needs a true post player. They only need a tall person to defend the other team's tall player. They have plenty of height to beat any other team out there. Only UCLA is going to have two players taller than 6'4 capable of starting and doubt they will.

UConn needs not to get clobbered on the boards.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Watkins had more blocked shots than Cardoso. Her athleticism is off the charts. She is a totally different player than Cardoso, but I don't think South Carolina will miss a beat.