USA Today Coaches Poll Week 16 (Feb. 22) out

[Kaizen]

Tenn received 0 (Zero) pt and is out of top 40
http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/rankings/_/poll/2/week/16/seasontype/2

1 Connecticut (32) 26-0 800
2 South Carolina 26-1 756
3 Notre Dame 26-1 748
4 Baylor 28-1 704
5 Ohio State 23-4 664
6 Maryland 25-3 625
7 Oregon State 24-3 594
8 Texas 24-2 588
9 Arizona State 24-4 541
10 Louisville 22-6 503
11 Texas A&M 20-7 461
12 Florida State 21-6 433
13 Stanford 22-6 390
14 Kentucky 19-6 374
15 UCLA 20-7 335
16 Mississippi State 22-6 319
17 Miami (FL) 22-5 291
18 Syracuse 22-6 275
19 DePaul 23-7 229
20 South Florida 19-7 184
21 Michigan State 20-7 159
22 BYU 23-4 84
23 Oklahoma 18-9 71
24 Missouri 21-6 55
25 Colorado State 24-1 36

• Others receiving votes: Duquesne 27, UTEP 24, Oklahoma State 24, Florida 21, Green Bay 20, Seton Hall 11, St John's 11, West Virginia 11, Florida Gulf Coast 7, Auburn 7, Georgia 6, Albany 5, Western Kentucky 3, NC State 3, Arkansas State 1

 

[MilfordHusky]

So the 1-loss teams are:

Notre Dame
South Carolina
Baylor
Colorado State

And the 2-loss team is:

Texas

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Tenn received 0 (Zero) pt and is out of top 40
http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/rankings/_/poll/2/week/16/seasontype/2

1 Connecticut (32) 26-0 800
2 South Carolina 26-1 756
3 Notre Dame 26-1 748
4 Baylor 28-1 704
5 Ohio State 23-4 664
6 Maryland 25-3 625
7 Oregon State 24-3 594
8 Texas 24-2 588
9 Arizona State 24-4 541
10 Louisville 22-6 503
11 Texas A&M 20-7 461
12 Florida State 21-6 433
13 Stanford 22-6 390
14 Kentucky 19-6 374
15 UCLA 20-7 335
16 Mississippi State 22-6 319
17 Miami (FL) 22-5 291
18 Syracuse 22-6 275
19 DePaul 23-7 229
20 South Florida 19-7 184
21 Michigan State 20-7 159
22 BYU 23-4 84
23 Oklahoma 18-9 71
24 Missouri 21-6 55
25 Colorado State 24-1 36

• Others receiving votes: Duquesne 27, UTEP 24, Oklahoma State 24, Florida 21, Green Bay 20, Seton Hall 11, St John's 11, West Virginia 11, Florida Gulf Coast 7, Auburn 7, Georgia 6, Albany 5, Western Kentucky 3, NC State 3, Arkansas State 1

So there are 40 teams in the USA Today poll who receive votes; Tennessee is not one of them. By my count, there are 21 teams that will win their conference championships, or their tournament championships, but are not ranked in the top 25. So that's 61 teams. So does that mean that Tennessee still deserves to go to the tournament? Who among the ranked teams or those receiving votes deserves to be bumped in favor of UT?

 

[toadfoot]

So there are 40 teams in the USA Today poll who receive votes; Tennessee is not one of them. By my count, there are 21 teams that will win their conference championships, or their tournament championships, but are not ranked in the top 25. So that's 61 teams. So does that mean that Tennessee still deserves to go to the tournament? Who among the ranked teams or those receiving votes deserves to be bumped in favor of UT?

The problem is that as vowelguy has correctly pointed out recently, the polls are generally irrelevant to the tournament seeding process. Short of losing to Alabama or Georgia and losing their 1st game in the SEC tournament I think the committee will be very reluctant to exclude Tennessee even if it could be justified.

 

[ucbart]

What is Tennessee's RPI and SOS? To me, they are very much an NCAA tournament team.

 

[Vowelguy]

So there are 40 teams in the USA Today poll who receive votes; Tennessee is not one of them. By my count, there are 21 teams that will win their conference championships, or their tournament championships, but are not ranked in the top 25. So that's 61 teams. So does that mean that Tennessee still deserves to go to the tournament? Who among the ranked teams or those receiving votes deserves to be bumped in favor of UT?

Polls are irrelevant to the seeding. (And the coaches poll is a terrible poll.) (And getting a vote from a couple of voters out of 40 indicates very little.)

Other than possibly BYU, none of the mid-major teams are in a great position to make the NCAAs if they don't win their conference tournaments. 1 or 2 might, but doubtful more.

 

[Blueballer]

What is Tennessee's RPI and SOS? To me, they are very much an NCAA tournament team.

To me they're a "bubble" team.

 

[sarals24]

They'll make it. On name alone they'll make it.

 

[CocoHusky]

So here is a better question/research project. This is week 16 and we still have to wait TN playing two more games.
Did a team outside the top 40 of the final coaches poll ( week 18) that was not a conference winner with an automatic bid make the NCAA tournament last year or ever?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2015/week/18/seasontype/2

 

[UcMiami]

So there are 40 teams in the USA Today poll who receive votes; Tennessee is not one of them. By my count, there are 21 teams that will win their conference championships, or their tournament championships, but are not ranked in the top 25. So that's 61 teams. So does that mean that Tennessee still deserves to go to the tournament? Who among the ranked teams or those receiving votes deserves to be bumped in favor of UT?

NO.
The problem with that logic is that the coaches only vote for the top 25, so most of those 'also receiving votes' are getting regional or local shout outs from a few coaches who placed them on their ballot somewhere in the 20s. If the coaches actually filled out a ballot of the top 40 teams, you can bet that TN would appear on every one of them around 30 and move up above most of the 15 teams 'also receiving votes'. The fact that not a single coach put them in the top 25 though is very significant - quite a statement of universal rejection.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think TN gets in as a 9 seed comparable to Nebraska last year 21-11 overall 10-8 in conference.
The committee will be sending a message without completely devastating a huge WCBB fan base.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I think TN gets in as a 9 seed comparable to Nebraska last year 21-11 overall 10-8 in conference.
The committee will be sending a message without completely devastating a huge WCBB fan base.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the objective to find the best teams plus the conference champions, and not to avoid "completely devastating a fan base"? Shouldn't the NCAA seeding committee pick the best outside of the conference champions, and then let the chips land where they may? Seems to me that there is far too much deference to UT's fan base and to tradition.

 

[CocoHusky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the objective to find the best teams plus the conference champions, and not to avoid "completely devastating a fan base"? Shouldn't the NCAA seeding committee pick the best outside of the conference champions, and then let the chips land where they may? Seems to me that there is far too much deference to UT's fan base and to tradition.

You are not wrong, I just have a different point of view. The Lady Vols fan base will show up to support them if they make a run. WCBB needs every fan they can get and Lady Vols will deliver more than most.

 

[Vowelguy]

Seems to me that there is far too much deference to UT's fan base and to tradition.

What deference has the committee shown to TN?

 

[EricLA]

So there are 40 teams in the USA Today poll who receive votes; Tennessee is not one of them. By my count, there are 21 teams that will win their conference championships, or their tournament championships, but are not ranked in the top 25. So that's 61 teams. So does that mean that Tennessee still deserves to go to the tournament? Who among the ranked teams or those receiving votes deserves to be bumped in favor of UT?

And yet Charlie Creme has them as a 7 seed. It's either a conspiracy or a joke.

 

[UcMiami]

Of the teams at the back end of the field, bubble teams, and those just outside looking in, TN has by far the best wins of any of them. Oregon State (#7) on the road, Syracuse (#18) at home and Missouri (#24) on the road and seven of their 11 loses are to ranked teams and another one to a team that has been in and out of the rankings all year. Yes, they have three bad losses, but they have played 10 currently ranked teams so their SOS even with the SEC bias is far superior to most of the other schools.

I know it is fun to dis TN, but really look at the competition and their schedules and their bad losses and lack of good wins. Unless they lose their next three games there is no question they are in the NCAA and they will likely be seeded somewhere between 7 and 9. If they lose early in the SEC tournament and lose one of their last two regular season games I would guess a 9 seed, if they win the next two and win at least one game in the tournament a 7 or 8.
The current AP # 25 ranked team is Colorado State with a beautiful 24-1 record - but they haven't played a SINGLE ranked team and lost to Penn which is not exactly a powerhouse - Massey ranks their SOS as #200. The Florida team that is the highest 'also receiving votes' has loses to Temple, UGA (twice), and Auburn all unranked though they do have wins against FSU (12), KY (15) TAMU (11) and Missouri (24) all on their home court. FSU was the ONLY ranked team they played OOC - Massey rates their SOS at #38 - vs. TN at #8 in the same conference

Yes there is some bias toward the SEC and other P5 conferences, and TN probably gets a little boost from their name, but the reality is the schools outside the top 20 are not particularly good teams and do not have good resumes. Our conference mate USF which is a good team does not have a good resume - they have lost to every ranked team they have played and have loses to 3 unranked teams. They certainly deserve to be ranked, but that just shows that it is a very different world for teams outside the top 15.

 

[BigBird]

What ever happened to the "eye" (or is it "I") test? I've seen UT play several times on SEC net, and even in a win they have been just dreadful. It is plain to see that they have team chemistry and attitude problems. They make amazingly bad decisions with the ball, and are a turnover in waiting. And this is a tournament team?

Tradition? Hogwash. In sports, tradition is what you did in your last game.

 

[UcMiami]

What ever happened to the "eye" (or is it "I") test? I've seen UT play several times on SEC net, and even in a win they have been just dreadful. It is plain to see that they have team chemistry and attitude problems. They make amazingly bad decisions with the ball, and are a turnover in waiting. And this is a tournament team?

Tradition? Hogwash. In sports, tradition is what you did in your last game.

Absolutely agree, but then I have watched a few other 'ranked' teams play as well and have the same problem - they look terrible. I shudder to think what some of the teams just outside the top 25 would look like if someone forced me to watch them. As far as I am concerned the SEC in general with the exception of TAMU and SC are painful to watch. KY can be entertaining if they happen to be playing well, but when they play poorly which happens quite frequently ...

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

How giddy would you guys be if Tennessee was an 8 or 9 seed and got sent to Storrs for the first 2 rounds? IF that happened would most of your fans pull for UT in the first round so that you could play them in the second round? Would the NCAA be that cruel to the Vols?

 

[alexrgct]

How giddy would you guys be if Tennessee was an 8 or 9 seed and got sent to Storrs for the first 2 rounds? IF that happened would most of your fans pull for UT in the first round so that you could play them in the second round? Would the NCAA be that cruel to the Vols?

I think many Uconn fans assert to themselves and others that they're tired of the rivalry and would be happy for all things Uconn-Tennessee to be discontinued.

Moreover, the rivalry was almost renewed last season. All Tennessee had to do was close out Maryland in the final minutes of the regional finals. Instead, Tennessee dropped a competitive game, whereas Uconn beat UMD by 23 in the national semis.

The point is that when we came close to- but didn't resch-a 23rd round of Uconn-Tennessee and escaped the need for a revivalry, there was a lot more relief than giddiness.

 

[Tonyc]

So there are 40 teams in the USA Today poll who receive votes; Tennessee is not one of them. By my count, there are 21 teams that will win their conference championships, or their tournament championships, but are not ranked in the top 25. So that's 61 teams. So does that mean that Tennessee still deserves to go to the tournament? Who among the ranked teams or those receiving votes deserves to be bumped in favor of UT?

Tenn has not earned anything and therefore does not deserve anything unless they can earn it just like every other team. IMO the top 25 are in and conference champs then we see who's left.

 

[Jim]

How giddy would you guys be if Tennessee was an 8 or 9 seed and got sent to Storrs for the first 2 rounds? IF that happened would most of your fans pull for UT in the first round so that you could play them in the second round? Would the NCAA be that cruel to the Vols?

Actually, I don't think the Vols would think that cruel. Their fans might, but I think the UT players would relish a chance to knock off UCONN. If (and it is a BIG if) they could win such a game, it would take some of the pain away from a 13-loss season.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Of the teams at the back end of the field, bubble teams, and those just outside looking in, TN has by far the best wins of any of them. Oregon State (#7) on the road, Syracuse (#18) at home and Missouri (#24) on the road and seven of their 11 loses are to ranked teams and another one to a team that has been in and out of the rankings all year. Yes, they have three bad losses, but they have played 10 currently ranked teams so their SOS even with the SEC bias is far superior to most of the other schools.

I know it is fun to dis TN, but really look at the competition and their schedules and their bad losses and lack of good wins. Unless they lose their next three games there is no question they are in the NCAA and they will likely be seeded somewhere between 7 and 9. If they lose early in the SEC tournament and lose one of their last two regular season games I would guess a 9 seed, if they win the next two and win at least one game in the tournament a 7 or 8.
The current AP # 25 ranked team is Colorado State with a beautiful 24-1 record - but they haven't played a SINGLE ranked team and lost to Penn which is not exactly a powerhouse - Massey ranks their SOS as #200. The Florida team that is the highest 'also receiving votes' has loses to Temple, UGA (twice), and Auburn all unranked though they do have wins against FSU (12), KY (15) TAMU (11) and Missouri (24) all on their home court. FSU was the ONLY ranked team they played OOC - Massey rates their SOS at #38 - vs. TN at #8 in the same conference

Yes there is some bias toward the SEC and other P5 conferences, and TN probably gets a little boost from their name, but the reality is the schools outside the top 20 are not particularly good teams and do not have good resumes. Our conference mate USF which is a good team does not have a good resume - they have lost to every ranked team they have played and have loses to 3 unranked teams. They certainly deserve to be ranked, but that just shows that it is a very different world for teams outside the top 15.

Nor to belabor a point, but does Penn deserve a bid, even if Princeton wins the Ivy championship? I'm leaning toward yes. And also toward a yes on Temple.

Having said that, do mid-level schools get serious consideration even if they didn't play the established conferences? I'm thinking of how tough Dayton was last year. And Delaware with EDD took UNC-pre scandal to the closing minutes. So how do you deal with a big winning mid-major compared with an underperforming major with 11 wins (in UT's case likely to be 13 by tournament time- losses to Georgia and someone else in the SEC tourney)?

 

[Vowelguy]

Nor to belabor a point, but does Penn deserve a bid, even if Princeton wins the Ivy championship? I'm leaning toward yes. And also toward a yes on Temple.

Having said that, do mid-level schools get serious consideration even if they didn't play the established conferences? I'm thinking of how tough Dayton was last year. And Delaware with EDD took UNC-pre scandal to the closing minutes. So how do you deal with a big winning mid-major compared with an underperforming major with 11 wins (in UT's case likely to be 13 by tournament time- losses to Georgia and someone else in the SEC tourney)?

Quality wins and bad losses.

Penn has an ok resume with top 50 rpi wins over Colorado St and Princeton + a win over Temple, and losses to Villanova, Duke, and non-top 100 St Joe's. But to not get the auto bid they would need 2 Ivy losses in their remaining games. That would not be good.

Consider another team with many losses -- Washington at 18-9.
They have a super quality win -- over RPI top 10 UCLA, as well as over RPI top 50 USC (twice).
5 of their 9 losses are against the RPI top 10. 2 other vs the RPI 50.
Their other 2 losses are to Oregon and Utah.
Yes they have a lot of losses, but most of them are to very good teams. Does that make them not worthy of a bid?

I'd say Wash's quality wins (UCLA, USC) are better than Penn's (Col St, Prin). And their non-quality losses (Ore, Utah) are better than Penn's (Vill, Duke, St Joes).

 

[UcMiami]

Nor to belabor a point, but does Penn deserve a bid, even if Princeton wins the Ivy championship? I'm leaning toward yes. And also toward a yes on Temple.

Having said that, do mid-level schools get serious consideration even if they didn't play the established conferences? I'm thinking of how tough Dayton was last year. And Delaware with EDD took UNC-pre scandal to the closing minutes. So how do you deal with a big winning mid-major compared with an underperforming major with 11 wins (in UT's case likely to be 13 by tournament time- losses to Georgia and someone else in the SEC tourney)?

The classic dilemma of putting together a bracket - in general the committee has tended to reward 'good' wins more than bad losses so TN with a couple of wins against ranked teams stands out more than Penn and wins against team already in the field not just ranked teams also helps. And then it is a toss up between 'SOS' as 'defined' by RPI and bad losses as to which gets used next or is more heavily weighted. And finally overall W/L gets a look.