Thoughts on St. Joe's and Villanova, plus looking ahead to Iowa State | The Boneyard

Thoughts on St. Joe's and Villanova, plus looking ahead to Iowa State

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If there's one word that came to mind while watching both of our tournament games this past weekend, it was pride. Maybe it sounds silly to call myself proud of a group of kids that I don't even know, but I couldn't feel anything but unadulterated joy for a group of players that had been through so much on the court. I'm not somebody who believes that these kids needed to prove anything in this tournament. Even if they had lost in the first round, their contributions to this program were irrevocable, and let us not forget, there was a dark time not too long ago when we weren't sure if anybody wanted to put on the UConn jersey anymore. The fact that this group of kids were simply willing to represent the university and state for another two years was good enough for me, and I didn't think they owed any of us more than that. So to watch these kids go out this weekend and respond undauntedly to punch after punch, and completely invalidate anybody who thought they lacked toughness or the will to win (a premise that was ridiculous anyway, but I'm glad they disproved it regardless) was a pretty rewarding experience.

In regards to strictly basketball vernacular, what I wrote nine days ago following the AAC Tournament seemed to ring true: "The end of conference play might be a breath of fresh air for this team - Per kenpom, the AAC is home to four of the best 12 defenses in the country (Louisville #6, Cincinnati #9, UConn #11, SMU #12). This conference might not be called the Big East any longer, but it has certainly inherited a similar identity of physicality and hard-nosed defense. When UConn lit up Memphis on Thursday, my hopes were tempered due to how pedestrian their defense is. But, the fact is, we're going to be playing more teams of similar caliber in dance. Even among the higher seeds (i.e., top 25), there are some pretty ordinary defensive rankings: Kentucky (41), Kansas (44), Michigan State (45), UCLA (49), Iowa State (54), Wisconsin (59), Oklahoma (81), Oregon (90), Duke (96), Michigan (102), Creighton (128), etc. Granted, these teams also possess more offensive fire power than clubs like SMU and Cincinnati, but given the choice, I'd rather play play a defense I know we can score on and take my chances on the other end than vice versa."

But, as much as I'd like to take full credit for this prediction, never did I envision this team scoring 52 points in one half against a defense as stingy as Villanova's. The Wildcats have the 19th ranked defense in America, and that number includes Saturday's sub-par showing. I don't remember exactly what they were ranked before this weekend, but I seem to recall it being in the vicinity of ten. In other words, all the metrics point to Villanova having an elite defense along the lines of SMU, Louisville, and Cincinnati, so to see us score so effortlessly at times was extremely encouraging. UConn shot 45% against St. Joe's, and 44% against Villanova. I never bothered to calculate how many points we scored per possession, but given we were highly proficient from three point land, efficient at the free throw line, and protective of the ball, I would imagine the number far exceeded what both defenses normally yield.

The million dollar question: how did an offense that looked so hopelessly stagnant for the better part of conference play suddenly morph into a formidable unit when the games really started to matter? Well, the simple answer is that we began making shots again. In the OOC portion of the schedule, this UConn team was one of the best three point shooting teams in the land. Then, starting with the Stanford game, it seemed like the blueprint to how to stop us was unveiled: swarm Napier and Boatright on ball screens and force everybody else to make spontaneous decisions with the ball. It wasn't a remarkably sophisticated game plan - as a matter of fact, we pretty much knew how teams were going to defend us after a certain point. But it was effective, because it exasperated the ball-handling and play-making deficiencies of our forwards and big men.

The less simple answer is actually similarly straightforward: Giffey, Daniels, and Samuel grew more comfortable making reads off the dribble, hitting the seams in the defense, and contorting their body to avoid getting their shot blocked as the season progressed. Giffey, especially, has grown far more comfortable as a ball-handler and slasher. Even something as simple as being able to dribble the ball for five seconds without turning it over while Napier and Boatright work to free themselves off the ball is of enormous value to the offense. For the first three and a half years of Giffey's career, he seemed to genuinely believe that the ball was made of fire. I think this was a combination of his own shortcomings as a players and his passive demeanor, but he's now developed in both areas to the point that defenses have to at least honor him as a driver. With Samuel, he's simply been given a chance to showcase his skills, and I think the lack of any sort of extensive scouting report on him has played a role in his ability to get to the rim.

UConn annihilated St. Joe's with the most simple play in basketball: the pick and roll. It was so evident how easily Napier was slicing up the defense, that in the first half I probably posted five different variations of "RUN PICK AND ROLL EVERY TIME DOWN THE COURT, THEY CAN'T STOP IT", in the game thread. Ollie of course, having ten times the basketball intellect that I'll ever have, recognized this fairly easily and exploited St. Joe's with it throughout the game. The St. Joe's big men were simply lacked the requisite foot-speed to hedge properly on Napier and Boatright, and the two practically were able to penetrate and dish at will. Truthfully, St. Joe's is lucky that we didn't hang more points on them. Individually, they just couldn't stay in front of us. On the offensive end, UConn had a mismatch at just about all five positions, and the quickness advantage was striking.

Against 'Nova, it was a more drive-and-kick based offense. The pick and roll was still effective, and Ollie ran some nice stuff to free Napier and Daniels now and again, but it was really the ability of the guards to penetrate into the teeth of the defense and kick to shooters that made the difference. One thing to consider, though, is that drive-and-kick offenses rarely generate good shots on the first drive. Generally, it requires a series of drives to confound the defense to the point that you can get an easy shot. This element of the offense is really emphasized when Samuel enters the game, because he's just one of those kids who refuses to be denied access to the basket. Watch tcf's highlight video for a good demonstration of how this was accomplished. Simple things like making the extra pass, dual-threat drives, and everything else that constitutes efficient offensive attack, are now consistent aspects of the offense. The evolution of this offense was best exemplified by the 16-1 run we went on with Napier in the bench in the first half. If you had told me earlier in the season that this team was capable of a 16-1 run against a top five team with 'Bazz on the bench, I would have wondered what kind of drugs you were taking. Not only does this transformation bode well for our chances in this tournament, but it also gives me a lot of hope for next season. And it all starts with Ryan Boatright, the kid who has been playing with the composure and savvy of the veteran point guard he has become. If he manages to fix his mid-range jumper over the summer - and he's already showing signs of doing just that - he will be an impossible guard next season.

Defensively, we weren't as good as I'm accustomed to us being against St. Joe's, but I think that can explained by St. Joe's being a bad match-up for us and them playing a bit over their head. Kromah and Giffey did a really nice job on Galloway, the kid just hit outrageous shot after outrageous shot. The fact that he managed to put up 25 on just 13 shots against our defense is as impressive a performance as one of our opponents has had against us all year. They also had some very wily big men, guys who relied on an array of ball fakes, deliberate post moves, and timing to loft their shots over the arms of our big men. Kanacevic, Roberts, and Bembry combined for 43 points and 21 rebounds against us. It was just an extremely well-executed game plan by a veteran team. As impressive as the 'Nova win was to me, the fact that we withstood St. Joe's despite them hitting all sorts of preposterous shots was even more impressive to me.

Holding Villanova, the 25th ranked offense in America (again, numbers include Saturday) to 35% from the floor, may have been our most impressive defensive performance of the season, especially considering they stormed out of the gates blazing and continued to hit contested three's for much of the game. Once it became clear that Villanova's game plan was to jack up as many three's as possible, we did an exceptional job of running them off the three point line and staying home on shooters. There were some breakdowns in coverage, but there always are. Early in the game, I was legitimately concerned that things might get ugly. 'Nova often plays four guards, all of whom are capable of beating their initial man off the dribble, collapsing the defense, and finding shooters. When Arcidiacono hit that first three off a double screen, and then proceeded to find shooters, I was a bit worried they may drop 15 three's on us. That 'Nova team was kind of a different animal from any team we saw all season, and Ollie and co. adjusted to it remarkably well. He definitely out-coached Jay Wright, who, for whatever reason, failed to convince his offense to ever even look at the basket - credit Daniels, Brimah, and Giffey for contesting everything at the rim, and Samuel and Nolan for making it known early that there would be nothing easy. That game wasn't a case of 'Nova simply having a bad shooting day, their struggles were a product of UConn's defense shutting them down. Matter of fact, if the Wildcats shot against UConn like they did against Milwaukee or Seton Hall, I'm not sure they would have cracked 50.

Listening to Ollie's interview at the end of tcf's video, he seems pretty heartfelt in the sentiment that this run is far from over. When you record the biggest victory of your coaching career and are already looking ahead to the next game (s), it's a testament to his discipline and standard of excellence. When you watch Mercer beat Duke, and their coach is losing his damn mind on the sidelines (I don't blame him, BTW), you can kind of tell that they're just happy to win one tournament game. But I legitimately believe that Ollie will be unsatisfied with anything short of a national championship, and that's what is going to make him such a great coach.

Next up is Iowa State. Between Melvin Ejim and DeAndre Kane, Iowa State is home to two of the very best players in the country. Kane is very capable of going toe-to-toe with Napier, and Ejim is the type of multifaceted forward that makes me wish Roscoe Smith was still on the roster. As I alluded to on Saturday, though, the injury of Georges Niang tempers the explosiveness of Iowa State's roster to some extent. There isn't a more versatile offensive player in the country - he's capable of scoring in the post with the same type of head fakes and mechanical drop-steps that St. Joe's killed us with, locating cutters and three point shooters when he'd doubled, and stepping out to the three point line in pick and pops with Kane. If Niang had been available, we may have been resigned to simply sliding under screens on Kane, doubling the post, and hoping that Iowa State had an off day from the three point line. With Niang out, though, UConn can afford to hedge a bit more aggressively on Kane, close out hard on shooters, and funnel drivers into Brimah (though Kane and Ejim are certainly capable of finishing in traffic).

The biggest question may be whether Niels Giffey can guard Melvin Ejim one on one. He certainly has the lateral quickness to guard him on the perimeter, but is he strong enough to defend him in the post and keep him off the glass? From a physical standpoint, Giffey may be a tad over-matched, but Niels has the tendency to out-perform his physical limitations, and I suspect he'll be instrumental in our efforts to contain Ejim.

Defensively, Iowa State is ordinary. They allowed a pedestrian UNC offense to shoot 47% from the field and 40% from three, and they rank merely 59th in the country in defensive efficiency (oddly enough, their offensive and defensive splits are virtually the inverse of ours - 10th in offense and 59th in defense, compared to 56th in offense and 11th in defense for us). If Paige and Leslie McDonald managed to score 37 points against them, I'm fairly certain Boatright and Napier will also be heard from regularly.

I've watched Iowa State enough this season to know that they play an NBA type game. By that I mean they like to get up and down, spread the floor with shooters, and involve their best players in as many pick and rolls as possible. If they have a weakness, it's the lack of an imposing post presence or rim protector, which is why they struggled with teams like Baylor and Kansas (pre-Embiid injury). Hoiberg's background in the NBA is unsurprisingly reflected in the way they play, and you could say the same about Ollie. Iowa State is 14th in America in adjusted tempo, and although UConn is only 235th, we all know we don't shy away from getting out and running when the opportunity presents itself. If this is anything other than a fast-paced, high-scoring, energetic game, I'll be very surprised. We're going to have a hard time guarding them, and they're going to have a hard time guarding us. There will be a lot of transition baskets and oohs and ahhs from the crowd as Napier, Boatright, and Kane exchange blows. Of all the teams I've watched this year, none were more aesthetically pleasing than Iowa State. They play the brand of basketball that a lot of people are worried is going extinct in college basketball, and I'm sure UConn will be more than happy to match their pace with the athletes and shooters we possess. On paper, this game is a coin flip - what I do know, however, is that this has game of the tournament potential (and that says a lot after the Kentucky-Wichita game).

Whatever happens from this point on, I'm more than happy to call myself a fan of this team, and this program. These last few games - dating back to the AAC Tournament - have been gratifying beyond belief, and the fact that the ACC only got one team through to the second weekend only makes everything sweeter. There is nothing better than playing basketball this time a year, and the fact that we have two games to win in Madison Square Garden only makes everything that much sweeter. Given this team was deprived of playing their conference tournament at MSG this season, it's beautifully symmetrical that they'll get to play the biggest games of their lives there this weekend. All three teams who will be accompanying us there this weekend - Iowa State, Virginia, Michigan State - are great teams who we'll have to play great against to beat. But if there's one thing that could swing the pendulum ever so slightly in our favor, it's an outpouring of maniacal folks dressed in Husky blue. I know I'll be there. I'll be the guy losing his damn mind. Go Huskies.
 

OkaForPrez

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I was just about to go to bed dissapointed I had read everything the internet had to offer on UConn over the last 48 hours. Champs to the rescue.
 

Edward Sargent

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If there's one word that came to mind while watching both of our tournament games this past weekend, it was pride. Maybe it sounds silly to call myself proud of a group of kids that I don't even know, but I couldn't feel anything but unadulterated joy for a group of players that had been through so much on the court. I'm not somebody who believes that these kids needed to prove anything in this tournament. Even if they had lost in the first round, their contributions to this program were irrevocable, and let us not forget, there was a dark time not too long ago when we weren't sure if anybody wanted to put on the UConn jersey anymore. The fact that this group of kids were simply willing to represent the university and state for another two years was good enough for me, and I didn't think they owed any of us more than that. So to watch these kids go out this weekend and respond undauntedly to punch after punch, and completely invalidate anybody who thought they lacked toughness or the will to win (a premise that was ridiculous anyway, but I'm glad they disproved it regardless) was a pretty rewarding experience.

In regards to strictly basketball vernacular, what I wrote nine days ago following the AAC Tournament seemed to ring true: "The end of conference play might be a breath of fresh air for this team - Per kenpom, the AAC is home to four of the best 12 defenses in the country (Louisville #6, Cincinnati #9, UConn #11, SMU #12). This conference might not be called the Big East any longer, but it has certainly inherited a similar identity of physicality and hard-nosed defense. When UConn lit up Memphis on Thursday, my hopes were tempered due to how pedestrian their defense is. But, the fact is, we're going to be playing more teams of similar caliber in dance. Even among the higher seeds (i.e., top 25), there are some pretty ordinary defensive rankings: Kentucky (41), Kansas (44), Michigan State (45), UCLA (49), Iowa State (54), Wisconsin (59), Oklahoma (81), Oregon (90), Duke (96), Michigan (102), Creighton (128), etc. Granted, these teams also possess more offensive fire power than clubs like SMU and Cincinnati, but given the choice, I'd rather play play a defense I know we can score on and take my chances on the other end than vice versa."

But, as much as I'd like to take full credit for this prediction, never did I envision this team scoring 52 points in one half against a defense as stingy as Villanova's. The Wildcats have the 19th ranked defense in America, and that number includes Saturday's sub-par showing. I don't remember exactly what they were ranked before this weekend, but I seem to recall it being in the vicinity of ten. In other words, all the metrics point to Villanova having an elite defense along the lines of SMU, Louisville, and Cincinnati, so to see us score so effortlessly at times was extremely encouraging. UConn shot 45% against St. Joe's, and 44% against Villanova. I never bothered to calculate how many points we scored per possession, but given we were highly proficient from three point land, efficient at the free throw line, and protective of the ball, I would imagine the number far exceeded what both defenses normally yield.

The million dollar question: how did an offense that looked so hopelessly stagnant for the better part of conference play suddenly morph into a formidable unit when the games really started to matter? Well, the simple answer is that we began making shots again. In the OOC portion of the schedule, this UConn team was one of the best three point shooting teams in the land. Then, starting with the Stanford game, it seemed like the blueprint to how to stop us was unveiled: swarm Napier and Boatright on ball screens and force everybody else to make spontaneous decisions with the ball. It wasn't a remarkably sophisticated game plan - as a matter of fact, we pretty much knew how teams were going to defend us after a certain point. But it was effective, because it exasperated the ball-handling and play-making deficiencies of our forwards and big men.

The less simple answer is actually similarly straightforward: Giffey, Daniels, and Samuel grew more comfortable making reads off the dribble, hitting the seams in the defense, and contorting their body to avoid getting their shot blocked as the season progressed. Giffey, especially, has grown far more comfortable as a ball-handler and slasher. Even something as simple as being able to dribble the ball for five seconds without turning it over while Napier and Boatright work to free themselves off the ball is of enormous value to the offense. For the first three and a half years of Giffey's career, he seemed to genuinely believe that the ball was made of fire. I think this was a combination of his own shortcomings as a players and his passive demeanor, but he's now developed in both areas to the point that defenses have to at least honor him as a driver. With Samuel, he's simply been given a chance to showcase his skills, and I think the lack of any sort of extensive scouting report on him has played a role in his ability to get to the rim.

UConn annihilated St. Joe's with the most simple play in basketball: the pick and roll. It was so evident how easily Napier was slicing up the defense, that in the first half I probably posted five different variations of "RUN PICK AND ROLL EVERY TIME DOWN THE COURT, THEY CAN'T STOP IT", in the game thread. Ollie of course, having ten times the basketball intellect that I'll ever have, recognized this fairly easily and exploited St. Joe's with it throughout the game. The St. Joe's big men were simply lacked the requisite foot-speed to hedge properly on Napier and Boatright, and the two practically were able to penetrate and dish at will. Truthfully, St. Joe's is lucky that we didn't hang more points on them. Individually, they just couldn't stay in front of us. On the offensive end, UConn had a mismatch at just about all five positions, and the quickness advantage was striking.

Against 'Nova, it was a more drive-and-kick based offense. The pick and roll was still effective, and Ollie ran some nice stuff to free Napier and Daniels now and again, but it was really the ability of the guards to penetrate into the teeth of the defense and kick to shooters that made the difference. One thing to consider, though, is that drive-and-kick offenses rarely generate good shots on the first drive. Generally, it requires a series of drives to confound the defense to the point that you can get an easy shot. This element of the offense is really emphasized when Samuel enters the game, because he's just one of those kids who refuses to be denied access to the basket. Watch tcf's highlight video for a good demonstration of how this was accomplished. Simple things like making the extra pass, dual-threat drives, and everything else that constitutes efficient offensive attack, are now consistent aspects of the offense. The evolution of this offense was best exemplified by the 16-1 run we went on with Napier in the bench in the first half. If you had told me earlier in the season that this team was capable of a 16-1 run against a top five team with 'Bazz on the bench, I would have wondered what kind of drugs you were taking. Not only does this transformation bode well for our chances in this tournament, but it also gives me a lot of hope for next season. And it all starts with Ryan Boatright, the kid who has been playing with the composure and savvy of the veteran point guard he has become. If he manages to fix his mid-range jumper over the summer - and he's already showing signs of doing just that - he will be an impossible guard next season.

Defensively, we weren't as good as I'm accustomed to us being against St. Joe's, but I think that can explained by St. Joe's being a bad match-up for us and them playing a bit over their head. Kromah and Giffey did a really nice job on Galloway, the kid just hit outrageous shot after outrageous shot. The fact that he managed to put up 25 on just 13 shots against our defense is as impressive a performance as one of our opponents has had against us all year. They also had some very wily big men, guys who relied on an array of ball fakes, deliberate post moves, and timing to loft their shots over the arms of our big men. Kanacevic, Roberts, and Bembry combined for 43 points and 21 rebounds against us. It was just an extremely well-executed game plan by a veteran team. As impressive as the 'Nova win was to me, the fact that we withstood St. Joe's despite them hitting all sorts of preposterous shots was even more impressive to me.

Holding Villanova, the 25th ranked offense in America (again, numbers include Saturday) to 35% from the floor, may have been our most impressive defensive performance of the season, especially considering they stormed out of the gates blazing and continued to hit contested three's for much of the game. Once it became clear that Villanova's game plan was to jack up as many three's as possible, we did an exceptional job of running them off the three point line and staying home on shooters. There were some breakdowns in coverage, but there always are. Early in the game, I was legitimately concerned that things might get ugly. 'Nova often plays four guards, all of whom are capable of beating their initial man off the dribble, collapsing the defense, and finding shooters. When Arcidiacono hit that first three off a double screen, and then proceeded to find shooters, I was a bit worried they may drop 15 three's on us. That 'Nova team was kind of a different animal from any team we saw all season, and Ollie and co. adjusted to it remarkably well. He definitely out-coached Jay Wright, who, for whatever reason, failed to convince his offense to ever even look at the basket - credit Daniels, Brimah, and Giffey for contesting everything at the rim, and Samuel and Nolan for making it known early that there would be nothing easy. That game wasn't a case of 'Nova simply having a bad shooting day, their struggles were a product of UConn's defense shutting them down. Matter of fact, if the Wildcats shot against UConn like they did against Milwaukee or Seton Hall, I'm not sure they would have cracked 50.

Listening to Ollie's interview at the end of tcf's video, he seems pretty heartfelt in the sentiment that this run is far from over. When you record the biggest victory of your coaching career and are already looking ahead to the next game (s), it's a testament to his discipline and standard of excellence. When you watch Mercer beat Duke, and their coach is losing his damn mind on the sidelines (I don't blame him, BTW), you can kind of tell that they're just happy to win one tournament game. But I legitimately believe that Ollie will be unsatisfied with anything short of a national championship, and that's what is going to make him such a great coach.

Next up is Iowa State. Between Melvin Ejim and DeAndre Kane, Iowa State is home to two of the very best players in the country. Kane is very capable of going toe-to-toe with Napier, and Ejim is the type of multifaceted forward that makes me wish Roscoe Smith was still on the roster. As I alluded to on Saturday, though, the injury of Georges Niang tempers the explosiveness of Iowa State's roster to some extent. There isn't a more versatile offensive player in the country - he's capable of scoring in the post with the same type of head fakes and mechanical drop-steps that St. Joe's killed us with, locating cutters and three point shooters when he'd doubled, and stepping out to the three point line in pick and pops with Kane. If Niang had been available, we may have been resigned to simply sliding under screens on Kane, doubling the post, and hoping that Iowa State had an off day from the three point line. With Niang out, though, UConn can afford to hedge a bit more aggressively on Kane, close out hard on shooters, and funnel drivers into Brimah (though Kane and Ejim are certainly capable of finishing in traffic).

The biggest question may be whether Niels Giffey can guard Melvin Ejim one on one. He certainly has the lateral quickness to guard him on the perimeter, but is he strong enough to defend him in the post and keep him off the glass? From a physical standpoint, Giffey may be a tad over-matched, but Niels has the tendency to out-perform his physical limitations, and I suspect he'll be instrumental in our efforts to contain Ejim.

Defensively, Iowa State is ordinary. They allowed a pedestrian UNC offense to shoot 47% from the field and 40% from three, and they rank merely 59th in the country in defensive efficiency (oddly enough, their offensive and defensive splits are virtually the inverse of ours - 10th in offense and 59th in defense, compared to 56th in offense and 11th in defense for us). If Paige and Leslie McDonald managed to score 37 points against them, I'm fairly certain Boatright and Napier will also be heard from regularly.

I've watched Iowa State enough this season to know that they play an NBA type game. By that I mean they like to get up and down, spread the floor with shooters, and involve their best players in as many pick and rolls as possible. If they have a weakness, it's the lack of an imposing post presence or rim protector, which is why they struggled with teams like Baylor and Kansas (pre-Embiid injury). Hoiberg's background in the NBA is unsurprisingly reflected in the way they play, and you could say the same about Ollie. Iowa State is 14th in America in adjusted tempo, and although UConn is only 235th, we all know we don't shy away from getting out and running when the opportunity presents itself. If this is anything other than a fast-paced, high-scoring, energetic game, I'll be very surprised. We're going to have a hard time guarding them, and they're going to have a hard time guarding us. There will be a lot of transition baskets and oohs and ahhs from the crowd as Napier, Boatright, and Kane exchange blows. Of all the teams I've watched this year, none were more aesthetically pleasing than Iowa State. They play the brand of basketball that a lot of people are worried is going extinct in college basketball, and I'm sure UConn will be more than happy to match their pace with the athletes and shooters we possess. On paper, this game is a coin flip - what I do know, however, is that this has game of the tournament potential (and that says a lot after the Kentucky-Wichita game).

Whatever happens from this point on, I'm more than happy to call myself a fan of this team, and this program. These last few games - dating back to the AAC Tournament - have been gratifying beyond belief, and the fact that the ACC only got one team through to the second weekend only makes everything sweeter. There is nothing better than playing basketball this time a year, and the fact that we have two games to win in Madison Square Garden only makes everything that much sweeter. Given this team was deprived of playing their conference tournament at MSG this season, it's beautifully symmetrical that they'll get to play the biggest games of their lives there this weekend. All three teams who will be accompanying us there this weekend - Iowa State, Virginia, Michigan State - are great teams who we'll have to play great against to beat. But if there's one thing that could swing the pendulum ever so slightly in our favor, it's an outpouring of maniacal folks dressed in Husky blue. I know I'll be there. I'll be the guy losing his damn mind. Go Huskies.
 

Edward Sargent

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Great write up, thanks but donn't place too much emphasis on Nova's defense. It was gained in a very mediocre Big Least. The only team of merit took them apart - Creighton.
 
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