This is all about Notre Dame

[gars44]

Notre Dame is a destabilizing force as long as it is out there for Delaney and Swofford to salivate over. Until Notre Dame is off the table, everyone will hold a place at the dinner table for them while you and I stand outside peering in through the kitchen window.

That's not ND's fault, no reason to despise them. But we can't continue to afford them the luxury of our conference to play their non revenue sports. Wish we could, but we can't. Once ND goes to the B1G or the ACC , then the final pieces can be inserted. Not til then. So, we have to precipitate that process by forming our own league without ND, without the onlies, with some uglies. We take a hit on the basketball contract. OK. But we have to destabilize Notre Dame sports. This is the only way to do it. If nothing happens (ND decides to put their non revs in the MAC, and the ACC/Ten don't take us), then our new league goes forward boldly into the galaxies with our trusty AQ bid intact. We win football games, continue to improve on the academic side, continue to win, and take it from there. But right now: EVERYBODY is looking to leap somewhere 24/7. So ND has to take a seat somewhere.

 

[ctchamps]

ND is only one cog, although a major cog. The other is the stabilization or destabilization of the B12. So ND is not in complete control of all events. If the B12 fragments the SEC and PAC quickly go the 16 team model and the ACC will be forced to make quick decisions as well.

 

[upstater]

Notre Dame is a destabilizing force as long as it is out there for Delaney and Swofford to salivate over. Until Notre Dame is off the table, everyone will hold a place at the dinner table for them while you and I stand outside peering in through the kitchen window.

That's not ND's fault, no reason to despise them. But we can't continue to afford them the luxury of our conference to play their non revenue sports. Wish we could, but we can't. Once ND goes to the B1G or the ACC , then the final pieces can be inserted. Not til then. So, we have to precipitate that process by forming our own league without ND, without the onlies, with some uglies. We take a hit on the basketball contract. OK. But we have to destabilize Notre Dame sports. This is the only way to do it. If nothing happens (ND decides to put their non revs in the MAC, and the ACC/Ten don't take us), then our new league goes forward boldly into the galaxies with our trusty AQ bid intact. We win football games, continue to improve on the academic side, continue to win, and take it from there. But right now: EVERYBODY is looking to leap somewhere 24/7. So ND has to take a seat somewhere.

I agree that we should leave the BE and form a league with the other BE football schools.

 

[8893]

Like it or not, no matter which way you look at it Notre Dame controls our future. I don’t think actively pissing them off is the way to go. You know the joke about Irish Alzheimer’s (i.e., they forget everything except the grudges)? It’s not a joke. Trust me.

 

[SubbaBub]

In case anyone still doesn't understand why being tied to the BBonlies has held us back, this is a prime example. The long term growth interests of BCS School was always in conflict. The BBonlies have always protected this arrangement and been opposed to having a majority on the FB side for this reason. A whole lot of the dissatisfaction cited by the schools who have departed follows from this fact.

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[UConnJim]

The more I think about it, the more I think the ACC had three motives for grabbing Syracuse and Pitt:

1) Defensive move in case one or two schools moved to SEC
2) Try to entice ND to join ACC if the BE blew up
3) Seriously hurt a basketball competitor as BE had become the no. 1 basketball conference

That said, I don't think ND needs to do anything right now, as Pitt and Syracuse might not be leaving for 2 more seasons and the BE with the basketball-onlys, if it comes to that, will be a good enough conference for the medium term for ND's non-football sports. At least it buys them time. In addition, the Big 10 doesn't appear to be expanding right now and there is always a spot for ND.

Thus, the only way ND joins a conference for football is if it comes to 64 teams in four conferences with a playoff among the 64 and you have to be in a conference to participate. (Not on the current horizon)

It looks like the ACC is playing with ND by floating the rumors that they might grab UConn and Rutgers and the BE will collapse. I don't think that collapses BE basketball as a conference of Georgetown, Villanova, ND, Marquette, St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, plus a couple of other additions would be the best non-BCS basketball conference and is probably better than the Pac 12 and they would probably keep the BET in Madison Square Garden. (If UConn stayed as a basketball only, the new BE would be on par with virtually all of the BCS conferences, except ACC)

Thus, I don't see why the ACC would take UConn at this time or Rutgers either. It appears that UConn will have two choices, which aren't good ones: 1) Stick with BE basketball to protect the basketball franchise and try to join a weak football conference for football only or 2) join a weak conference like the MAC or CUSA for all sports.

 

[mattp]

if the FB schools leave the BBall onlies at this point it'll hurt the FB schools. the bball only schools would continue to be the Big East and ND will still be with them for all other sports. how does ejecting the bball schools destabilize ND? if anything it'd weaken the FB schools. right now if we add say UCF and Navy (or any of the reasonable scenerios) we'll still be a BCS conference, and even though we'll be the weakest one i don't think our BCS standing would be threatened at all. if we (meaning all the FB schools) leave the Big East i'm not so sure of it.

 

[mattp]

In case anyone still doesn't understand why being tied to the BBonlies has held us back, this is a prime example. The long term growth interests of BCS School was always in conflict. The BBonlies have always protected this arrangement and been opposed to having a majority on the FB side for this reason. A whole lot of the dissatisfaction cited by the schools who have departed follows from this fact.

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how is this a prime example of the bball onlies holding us back? you still haven't said what would have been done differently that the bballs schools held us back from. whether we had the bball schools or not we were the newest BCS conference, with the fewest big time schools. that was our problem, not the bball schools. if anything the bball side of the conference at least gave us some notoriety and prestige. the bball side of things is what seperated us from things like the CUSA

 

[Danzz]

Like it or not, no matter which way you look at it Notre Dame controls our future. I don’t think actively pissing them off is the way to go. You know the joke about Irish Alzheimer’s (i.e., they forget everything except the grudges)? It’s not a joke. Trust me.

ND does and doesn't control our future. If they go to the ACC it is likely Uconn would be #16. But if thye don't it could very well be uconn and Rutgers to the ACC. Notre Dame is a big pain in the neck. I realize that they bring prestige to the BE but they take away more than they contribute.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

BE should never allowed ND into the conference in the first place. Once they are in, it was their best interest to keep the hybrid alive which led to many issues we got today.

 

[SubbaBub]

The BBonlies interests have not been aligned with the BCS schools since the beginning of the football conference. They could not expand, kick out ND, or address the issues that caused the departure of 5 schools. In short, the FB side could not look to get stronger because that would threaten the BBonlies. I'm not blaming them for protecting status quo that worked well for them. It's just a fact. Going back to 1991 I am sure there were opportunities missed. The divide was likely not as wide back then but how about picking up a Louisville in 1995-6 or taking a shot at Maryland or Virginia. Maybe even a second go at Penn State or a Florida State in 1992. These ideas were beyond the pale because of the divided loyaltys of the league leadership. It's not always about what was done or not done, it's sometimes things that were missed because the box the league was in.



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[UConnJim]

ND is not moving to a conference in the short term. ACC does not need 16 teams at this time, they can wait. BE football with WVU, Louisville, USF, Cinci, Rutgers, UConn, TCU, and Army and Navy as football onlys is a viable BCS conference, certainly on par with the ACC, but it's unlikely to hold together.

 

[Vowelguy]

I agree that we should leave the BE and form a league with the other BE football schools.

Why? So then we can be a mediocre basketball AND a mediocre football conference? Hello irrelevance.

Losing Pitt & Syracuse made the viability of FB-only conference less likely.