The Demographic Cliff and UConn

[noeynox]

That's too bad, as CCSU is worth its weight in gold for a teaching degree like that. But I get that some kids won't consider CCSU because it is too close to home, or too small, too old, too uncool. It isn't for everyone. But if the STATE invested in the that university and campus as another alternative option for students, everyone would be better off.

The fact you can leave CCSU with a degree at a much lower cost than a SHU or QU, and get the same jobs as teacher, nurse, accountant, business professional, etc is a much better ROI. But like everywhere else, the costs at Central are going up, yet they have to recruit with subpar academic, support, residential, and athletic facilities. It continues the exodus of shrinking CT high school student population to outside the state.

The reasons Central has its struggles are solely due to the fact UConn has and continues to receive a outsized share of the STATE resources. The fact that no one in CGA wants to build anything that would bee seen as "competing" with UConn in even the slightest way is why there are no other options and kids will go out of state.

If Utah with the same population as CT can support a flagship university, a state university, and compete with a National private - why don't we? Utah/UConn; Utah State/Central; BYU/Yale. Many smaller states are able to support 2 major universities (Mississippi/MSU; Kansas/KSU; New Mexico/NMSU) but we can't.

Maybe the time has come to close WestConn and Eastern and just invest in Central and Southern. What is the use having 4 subpar regional universities, if we can invest and have 2 competitive comprehensive universities in 2 major cities? I'll give you a hint, the UConn administration would never support that type of legislation and would look to increase their own funding.

Like this post, but why not just have one Connecticut State University with branches at existing CSUs? Make Central the primary hub. I only say this cause part of the CSUs being spread out like they are is to give people all over the state a drivable option. Living in Waterbury I chose Wesconn in part because the commute down 84 west was easier than 84 east back then pre 84 east widening.

 

[UConnJim]

It is easier to teach a STEM person to be creative than to teach a creative person how to code.

When I was at UConn, marketing was a big fat joke of a major within the business school for people that wanted a business degree without working that hard. I should know, because that is how I got into the business school with my sophomore year grades. I switched to finance within a month. Today, marketing is a completely different degree, and I think one that will be very much in demand in the future. Marketing has become so much more complex across channels and platforms, and marketers need to know how all of those things interact. Sales and distribution has changed as much as any function in the economy the last 20 years. I think marketing is a great major for young people looking to learn a practical skill.

In today's world, coding is more of a commodity than creative work. And, I'm not talking about a marketing degree. I'm talking about creative people. People who have backgrounds in music, arts, drama, languages,... who can apply their talents to businesses.

And, you are crazy if you think you can teach a coder to be creative.

 

[Travelman6]

You are using anecdotal examples, and I am pointing to a systematic problem that the universities are in a large part responsible for. Kids are welcome to study anything they want, no matter what their major. But given the cost, going to school is an economic decision, and there are severe economic consequences for making a bad one. To paraphrase Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting, don't be the person who "dropped $150,000 on a fudging education that you could have gotten for $1.50 in late charges at the public library." No one is stopping a CS major from reading literature. I am just suggesting that spending $80,000 a year on the Classics is a bad economic investment, and will result in a degree that, for many of those graduates, is economically useless.

Colleges put kids in these degrees because they are cheap and therefore very profitable for the school. The colleges have to know they are not preparing many of their graduates for a post-college world, yet they sell these $300,000 degrees anyway.

My point is any degree COULD be "useless, it depends on the kid. Just like some kids can make even a "useless" degree work for them. But I'll never make a blanket statement that "x" degree is 100% useless all the time. Nor is any degree ever 100% useful for every single person who has it.

The cost of education is the major issue, it is out of hand in the USA. And yes, the library is a wealth of knowledge, much cheaper than UNI but too many employers like to see that 100K+ paper....

 

[JohnFSilver]

In today's world, coding is more of a commodity than creative work. And, I'm not talking about a marketing degree. I'm talking about creative people. People who have backgrounds in music, arts, drama, languages,... who can apply their talents to businesses.

And, you are crazy if you think you can teach a coder to be creative.

I have worked at three fortune 100 companies since I left media. There is zero chance you can get a stem grad to learn creative work. That is not craft than it is skill.

And on writing, half of the time I deal with executives who can’t write out of a paper bag. They are incredibly smart and competent, that’s why they come to me when they need to communicate .

 

[nelsonmuntz]

In today's world, coding is more of a commodity than creative work. And, I'm not talking about a marketing degree. I'm talking about creative people. People who have backgrounds in music, arts, drama, languages,... who can apply their talents to businesses.

And, you are crazy if you think you can teach a coder to be creative.

I work with tech companies a lot. Even small, B2B technology companies have amazingly creative people. Technology companies solve problems for their customers, and they often solve problems that no one has ever solved before.

I will also disagree about many in the arts, music and drama. They like to consider themselves superior and creative, but most product is either recycled or at least derivative of the work of others.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I can't remember where I saw this, but one of the brilliant tech CEOs said STEM was the way to go 10 to 15 years ago as it was very hard to hire engineers. Now, he said the hardest person to find is the creative person. Business needs people to tell their stories, to market their products, etc. For example, look at the creative content being developed around sports teams today.

Not to toot my career path…

But there is information overload out there. Especially in big business. Data, analytics, information…

How do you tell your story?

UConn sports is perfect example. What is the narrative? What is the reality? They have failed to tell their story over most of the last two decades.

That is why I liked that UConn athletics annual report today.

There is a craft and strategy how to tell people things, when to say it, how to package it, and what information to give them.

Most important is the old journalism trade of knowing your audience. That is actually a lot harder to figure out than you think. I have some real world examples too.

 

[Kolumbo]

Our town in CT had to add a class to elementary grades and there are several new house developments, probably in the $600k-$700k range. Obviously doesn't reflect all of CT but interesting nevertheless.

Just spoke with someone whose son is going to UConn Stamford. Lots of perks included down there travel-wise. So much to do within a short bus or train ride while living in a small city. 2,700 students on campus including dorms.

Home | Stamford : Stamford

Stamford

stamford.uconn.edu

 

[phillionaire]

I have worked at three fortune 100 companies since I left media. There is zero chance you can get a stem grad to learn creative work. That is not craft than it is skill.

And on writing, half of the time I deal with executives who can’t write out of a paper bag. They are incredibly smart and competent, that’s why they come to me when they need to communicate .

To say that a STEM grad can't be creative is patently false. You need to be creative to design experiments. You need to be creative to explore mechanisms and test hypotheses. Just because it's not your view of creativity doesn't mean that it's not creative.

 

[HuskyHawk]

All I know as in Searching for a college for daughter, there really is a paucity of options relative to value .

Going to college in Northeast is very frustrating .

Which is why, increasingly, even local kids choose not to. As for the demographics, initially economists watching it thought the out migration was mostly in the 40-65 age bracket. Turns out it's happening at the same rate among 20-40 year olds. College kids, even ones that do go to school in the northeast, are leaving.

 

[superjohn]

Which is why, increasingly, even local kids choose not to. As for the demographics, initially economists watching it thought the out migration was mostly in the 40-65 age bracket. Turns out it's happening at the same rate among 20-40 year olds. College kids, even ones that do go to school in the northeast, are leaving.

I keep thinking in the future the heat problems in the South will bring people back to the Northeast and Midwest but many people would rather live in 114 degree hell than put up with what the Northeast and Midwest population centers have become.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I keep thinking in the future the heat problems in the South will bring people back to the Northeast and Midwest but many people would rather live in 114 degree hell than put up with what the Northeast and Midwest population centers have become.

My co-workers in Austin were truly miserable this summer. Beyond the usual. But winter is no picnic either. DC to Boston on the coast is pretty temperate. Winters aren't too bad (much worse just a little inland). Those coastal areas have gotten way more expensive despite the outflow. NC, SC, Georgia, Tennessee mountain areas seem to be booming now. Not as hot.

 

[superjohn]

My co-workers in Austin were truly miserable this summer. Beyond the usual. But winter is no picnic either. DC to Boston on the coast is pretty temperate. Winters aren't too bad (much worse just a little inland). Those coastal areas have gotten way more expensive despite the outflow. NC, SC, Georgia, Tennessee mountain areas seem to be booming now. Not as hot.

That's what I'm getting at, it's more and more temperate in the Northeast and Midwest population centers now but they can't get out of their own way and people are heading to places which keep getting hotter. Cost of living, taxes, crime, extremely difficult to be an entrepreneur, cities inviting migrants they can't take care...

I've had friends head to Arizona, Nevada, Texas. They don't like the heat but they found all that other stuff increasingly intolerable in Chicago.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's what I'm getting at, it's more and more temperate in the Northeast and Midwest population centers now but they can't get out of their own way and people are heading to places which keep getting hotter. Cost of living, taxes, crime, extremely difficult to be an entrepreneur, cities inviting migrants they can't take care...

I've had friends head to Arizona, Nevada, Texas. They don't like the heat but they found all that other stuff increasingly intolerable in Chicago.

It's a tradeoff I'm weighing as well, even living well outside Boston. I know others who already made the call to bail out. Covid drove some of that. No easy answers, but if they don't focus on competing with the sunbelt states they are going to have more problems as the tax base erodes. If I didn't hate the cold I'd go to New Hampshire.

 

[UConnJim]

It's a tradeoff I'm weighing as well, even living well outside Boston. I know others who already made the call to bail out. Covid drove some of that. No easy answers, but if they don't focus on competing with the sunbelt states they are going to have more problems as the tax base erodes. If I didn't hate the cold I'd go to New Hampshire.

Know many people who went south. They say June/July/August are their "winter" months like the Northeast's December/January/February. They do like to visit the Northeast in the summer! They play golf first thing in the morning in the summer months and they can play golf all year round.

Costs/taxes are much lower in the south so I don't know anyone who has come back.