Semi-OT: What's Holding Up Outlet Mall at the Rent?

[Palatine]

It implies it pretty strongly.

It either says it or it doesn't. It doesn't.

 

[Devland]

I've hunted pheasants and turkeys before. I know these birds are smaller but I'm up for the challenge.

 

[SubbaBub]

It either says it or it doesn't. It doesn't.

It says. You're an idiot.

"The state set aside 150 acres of state-owned prison land in Somers as grassland habitat with the hope of attracting nesting birds away from Rentschler, said Jenny Dickson, supervising wildlife biologist at the Department of Energy and Environmental Protection."

The State doesn't buy mitigation land unless it's part of a mitigation agreement. Also, past land uses don't matter. That is the reason developers lease undeveloped land to plant corn or other ag crops as a defense against birds creating nesting site. Ag land can not be assigned as grasslands. But, i'm sure you knew that.

 

[Marty Jackson]

But it is the truth. There is insufficient demand for another outlet center in the region. Two south in Clinton/Westbrook, 1 coming at Foxwoods, 1 in West Stockbridge/Lenox and the equivalent of outlet malls at Buckland Hills and Enfiled malls based on how they are tenanted right now. Outlet malls thrive when they are next to a destination/vacation area that drives traffic from out of region shoppers. There is nothing to drive shoppers to the Rent area except Cabelas. And Cabelas shoppers are not going to the Polo, Nordstrom, Nike, etc. outlet stores. Cabelas is its own draw It does not need anything else. And bargain shoppers from the higher income demographics around Hartford (Avon, West Hartford, Farmington, etc), they will go to NYC before they go to East Hartford to shop.

The entire retail concept at the Rent should be rethought and changed into an entertainment/dining venue. The best potential tenant, Dave and Busters, is now in Manchester (although I do not think D & B as a company has a lot of play left in that format, plus their food sucks). They need to put a new multi-plex theater there with all the bells and whistles along with about 5 bars/clubs and another 5-6 restaurants. Something along the lines of this -
http://boisespectrumcenter.com/

Would be great for year round draw, close enough to Hartford to attract some of the younger people that will be in the new residential and a vital link/entertainment destination for events at the Rent.

you are wrong on so many levels...
a) have you been to Gillette Stadium/Patriots Place? It's not a standalone Bass Pro Shops. There are other venues for both shopping and dining. Even a hotel, medical center, and other entertainment options
b) multi-plex theater? seriously? how many shuttered theaters do you pass on 84 and 91 going through the state?
c) grew up in CT and never made trips to NYC specifically for shopping. Westfarms, West Hartford Center, Bishops Corner, and Rt 44 in Avon had everything.

 

[Bradleypalmer]

Gotta love some of the restaurant names in that Boise Spectrum Center: Chuck-A-Rama, Johnny Carino's Italian Kitchen, The Creperie. Sounds like something you'd see on an episode of The Simpsons.

 

[Hoophound]

I think outlets in that location are a great idea. This is how you create destination trips to Hartford, put stuff there that interests people. The idea that a West Hartford mom isn't driving to East Hartford to buy her husband and kids Polo Oxfords for $29-$39 and will instead pay $89 at Westfarms is laughable. My wife drives the 25 minutes to our local outlet mall in Florida to buy most clothes for our family. There is a huge number of stores that fill needs, she isn't overrun with teens hanging out like at the regular mall and the dining options are way better.

Also, as someone that has lived in West Hartford, Avon, Tolland and Somers, I can tell you that there is plenty of money to shop the outlets east of the river. Sometimes it amazes me that people west of the river have such a distorted view of that area. Tolland, Ellington, Somers, South Windsor, Glastonbury, Hebron. Portland etc. have plenty of wealth and middle/upper middle class shoppers to frequent an outlet mall, let alone all the people that will come from the south and west. I hope they build it, we'll be there every time we visit Connecticut.

 

[CTGoonie]

I just had an epiphany. We need to fill the Rent on game days and these birds are losing their home. LET THE BIRDS IN THE RENT ON GAMEDAY. Problems solved.

 

[RedSoloCup]

As long as those complaining about bird poop on the seats realize where it comes from.

All those birds and their 'grass' having hippy-commie love fest concerts on the bleachers.

Those are the real trouble around here.

 

[06029]

you are wrong on so many levels...
a) have you been to Gillette Stadium/Patriots Place? It's not a standalone Bass Pro Shops. There are other venues for both shopping and dining. Even a hotel, medical center, and other entertainment options
b) multi-plex theater? seriously? how many shuttered theaters do you pass on 84 and 91 going through the state?
c) grew up in CT and never made trips to NYC specifically for shopping. Westfarms, West Hartford Center, Bishops Corner, and Rt 44 in Avon had everything.

Since I am wrong, why have no other leases been signed? Have you seen the sales reports and shopping patterns for west of the river? Have you paid any attention to the demographics and shopping profiles east of the river? Do you know the sales volume at Clinton/Westbrook? Do you understand the demographic requirements, traffic counts and radii that outlet stores focus on? Every outlet retailer that would consider a store at the Rent has way more data on CT shopping patterns than you could ever dream of. They know who shops, where they come from and how much they spend on each visit. There is no reason for outlet shopping to be at the Rent. The numbers don't lie. Visit the Tanger website and look at their map and you can see where they like to locate.

And to compare Patriot Place to the Rent, that is not wrong?
Gillette hosts events at least 100 days a year between the Pats, the Revs, concerts, lacrosse and Pats training camp. The Rent, maybe 20. Throw in for good measure the concert facility in Mansfield with another 50-80 nights per year with events. That supports the hotels, shopping and restaurants.
The nearest shopping center/major mall relative to Gillette were 12 to 15 miles and the only lifestyle center that existed in that area of SE MA was about 30 miles away.
The area was severely under retailed for over 20 years. The Hartford area has 3 malls (Westfarms, Buckland and Enfield, altho Enfield is on Deathwatch). It also has a lifestyle center at Evergreen Walk. Every major etailer has multiple stores within 15 miles of the Rent. Some studies suggest east of the River is over retailed.
The area was even more under hoteled for even longer. Best hotel for many years was a Holiday Inn. With about 200 event nights per year within 10 miles, hotels were a natural choice.
The income demographics and population patterns supported significant retail expansion. Beyond Patriot Place, there were at least 3 other major retail developments along 495 taht have gone up and all have very high occupancy and strong sales.
Kraft got the state to pay for all of the road improvements to the stadium and Patriot Place. Without those free infrastructure improvements, the costs would have made the development unfeasible. Throw in some of the tax breaks he has, and the numbers worked.

The Rent area can not support traditional retail and no one is going to build a major retail center there. So the option and logical choice is to make it an entertainment related venue. Cabela's is a unique draw. Play on it with more reasons for people spend an entire day in East Hartford that also compliments the stadium.

Yes, movie theaters. The shuttered theaters are that way because they are obsolete and their chains went out of business (Showcase). The cinemas at Buckland Hills are way outdated in almost every way but have decent sales. The cinemas in Hartford/West Hartford are marginally better. The sales volume suggest that a modern facility would fit in the market. If you have ever been to some of the brand new multi-plexes around the country, you would get it it.

Build restaurants and bars around it. Think a Buffalo Wild Wings, On the Border, Geno's, Frank Pepe's, Plan B, Max, Wood N Tap, etc. along with some slightly higher end restaurants would not work? Put some other niche retail around it to occupy people while they wait for their movie or table. That would work if the rents are right. It won't work with just Cabelas. Not enough bodies coming to just Cabelas.

 

[Nostical]

Kings Bowling /Restaurant venue is a big draw in an Evergreen-like development in Lynnfield, MA. Its an upbeat fun family friendly place--perfect for a Rentshler Field area development. Kids and adults both love it.
http://kingsbowlamerica.com/lynnfield/

 

[DoctorWho85]

Orrrr if East Hartford's Old Burnside Brewery were able to open something similar to what Hooker is doing downtown.

Not a big beer guy myself, but a brewery next to The Rent is a phenomenal idea. The stadium should really try to bring in all the local breweries to serve inside. Support CT!

 

[Hoophound]

I suspect you have some knowledge if this subject based on the your post, and while I too have good knowledge of commercial property and development, I don't work in CT. So, I'll assume you are right and go with it. However, here is my thought on it. The Rent is a short drive from the wealth of Avon, Simsbury and WH and Farmington when you consider it a destination. If I lived in one of those towns I would gladly drive there to shop for higher end brands at better prices, eat a nice lunch and then do some errands on the way home.

The bonus of having a less dense but willing audience east of the river just helps matters. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think 10 extra minutes is going to keep yuppies from the west from going to the outlet. However, I do think that the extra time keeps them from traveling to full price, smaller venues like Evergreen in South Windsor.

I also agree that Buckland Mall and the Enfield Mall suck, but they suck because they cater to the larger numbers of people that live in Manchester, Enfield, Windsor Locks etc. that don't buy high end brands. The buyers from the smaller, leafy towns in the area will go to the outlet though. I know from experience that when I lived east of the river, we drove all the way to Westfarms, Holyoke and even further to buy stuff sometimes. I think East Hartford is convenient enough to lots of areas in all directions to attract people. Professionals that work downtown will go after work and at lunch time and keep it viable as well. Granted, I'm making a lot of assumptions but I've always thought the are needed and outlet mall.

As far as Clinton goes, I've always wondered why anyone thought building a huge outlet venue so far from New Haven made sense. There just isn't enough people near it to keep it busy, especially during the week when no one is in Clinton. East Hartford and greater Hartford in general are always busy with people and traffic.

 

[Bezzz]

Kings Bowling /Restaurant venue is a big draw in an Evergreen-like development in Lynnfield, MA. Its an upbeat fun family friendly place--perfect for a Rentshler Field area development. Kids and adults both love it.
http://kingsbowlamerica.com/lynnfield/

Kings Bowling is awesome. FYI I just finished designing a similar bowling/bar/restaurant/lounge which is about to start construction...in Southington!

 

[Marty Jackson]

Since I am wrong, why have no other leases been signed? Have you seen the sales reports and shopping patterns for west of the river? Have you paid any attention to the demographics and shopping profiles east of the river? Do you know the sales volume at Clinton/Westbrook? Do you understand the demographic requirements, traffic counts and radii that outlet stores focus on? Every outlet retailer that would consider a store at the Rent has way more data on CT shopping patterns than you could ever dream of. They know who shops, where they come from and how much they spend on each visit. There is no reason for outlet shopping to be at the Rent. The numbers don't lie. Visit the Tanger website and look at their map and you can see where they like to locate.

And to compare Patriot Place to the Rent, that is not wrong?
Gillette hosts events at least 100 days a year between the Pats, the Revs, concerts, lacrosse and Pats training camp. The Rent, maybe 20. Throw in for good measure the concert facility in Mansfield with another 50-80 nights per year with events. That supports the hotels, shopping and restaurants.
The nearest shopping center/major mall relative to Gillette were 12 to 15 miles and the only lifestyle center that existed in that area of SE MA was about 30 miles away.
The area was severely under retailed for over 20 years. The Hartford area has 3 malls (Westfarms, Buckland and Enfield, altho Enfield is on Deathwatch). It also has a lifestyle center at Evergreen Walk. Every major etailer has multiple stores within 15 miles of the Rent. Some studies suggest east of the River is over retailed.
The area was even more under hoteled for even longer. Best hotel for many years was a Holiday Inn. With about 200 event nights per year within 10 miles, hotels were a natural choice.
The income demographics and population patterns supported significant retail expansion. Beyond Patriot Place, there were at least 3 other major retail developments along 495 taht have gone up and all have very high occupancy and strong sales.
Kraft got the state to pay for all of the road improvements to the stadium and Patriot Place. Without those free infrastructure improvements, the costs would have made the development unfeasible. Throw in some of the tax breaks he has, and the numbers worked.

The Rent area can not support traditional retail and no one is going to build a major retail center there. So the option and logical choice is to make it an entertainment related venue. Cabela's is a unique draw. Play on it with more reasons for people spend an entire day in East Hartford that also compliments the stadium.

Yes, movie theaters. The shuttered theaters are that way because they are obsolete and their chains went out of business (Showcase). The cinemas at Buckland Hills are way outdated in almost every way but have decent sales. The cinemas in Hartford/West Hartford are marginally better. The sales volume suggest that a modern facility would fit in the market. If you have ever been to some of the brand new multi-plexes around the country, you would get it it.

Build restaurants and bars around it. Think a Buffalo Wild Wings, On the Border, Geno's, Frank Pepe's, Plan B, Max, Wood N Tap, etc. along with some slightly higher end restaurants would not work? Put some other niche retail around it to occupy people while they wait for their movie or table. That would work if the rents are right. It won't work with just Cabelas. Not enough bodies coming to just Cabelas.

Not going point by point but one of the largest outlet centers in ma is about 5 minutes from foxboro in wrentham. Add to that all the other retail on rte 1.
I don't know why there is no development. Maybe the price is still too high. Maybe there are other issues. Is the site a toxic dump.
I don't think cabelas made their decision in a vacuum. Nor do I think they want to be the only retailer in an industrial park.

 

[pj]

I just had an epiphany. We need to fill the Rent on game days and these birds are losing their home. LET THE BIRDS IN THE RENT ON GAMEDAY. Problems solved.

Only if they don't puke or defecate after consumption of alcohol.

 

[MASSconn]

I live about 25 minutes north of Gillette in the suburbs and what Kraft has done is remarkable. The route 1 area of Foxboro used to be a complete dump. You were more likely to see prostitutes at a motel than people out.

Patriot Place has now turned in a destination to drink, dine and marginally shop (worst part of the development) for the entire SE Massachusetts area. There are 5 big bars, supermarket, great restaurants, a hotel, so on.

The area around Rentschler could EASILY be the same. And the best part is that it's way closer to a major city. It could turn East Hartford into a destination for companies and apartments instead of a wasteland. Connecticut has a model to look at. Perhaps a smaller model than Kraft's billions but a model they could copy.

 

[J187Money]

If you build something great people will come. If there isn't enough demand the old thing will close in favor of the new thing.

They rebuilt the mall in Milford and it is packed all of the time. There are a ton of vacant buildings as a result, but the mall is packed.

 

[06029]

I live about 25 minutes north of Gillette in the suburbs and what Kraft has done is remarkable. The route 1 area of Foxboro used to be a complete dump. You were more likely to see prostitutes at a motel than people out.

Patriot Place has now turned in a destination to drink, dine and marginally shop (worst part of the development) for the entire SE Massachusetts area. There are 5 big bars, supermarket, great restaurants, a hotel, so on.

The area around Rentschler could EASILY be the same. And the best part is that it's way closer to a major city. It could turn East Hartford into a destination for companies and apartments instead of a wasteland. Connecticut has a model to look at. Perhaps a smaller model than Kraft's billions but a model they could copy.

200 event nights per year within 8 miles of Patriot Place versus 25 at the Rent. Better demographics and lack of competition.

Easy is in the eye of the beholder. Kraft owns his land and he bought it cheap with some great tax breaks and free improvements to Route 1 from MA as part of the deal to keep the Pats there. Pratt owns the area around the Rent. They are not giving it away for free. And the state only gives money to hedge funds for new construction/redevelopment and it needs to be in the governors home city.

 

[MASSconn]

I don't know where the number 200 is coming from- people who go to concerts at Comcast don't go to the Gillette area. 50-100 is the correct number.

It's something the state should look into. All I'm saying

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Kinda off topic from this thread but anyone who is worried about the welfare of birds needs to find a new cause.

A) They are disgusting and dirty creatures.
B) They have been around since pre-historic times. They were around when dinosaurs walked the earth. They'll adapt.
C) They have enough food. Don't feed birds. Feed kids.
D) They are disgusting and dirty creatures.

Seriously all the problems in this world and people are concerned with displacing some f'ng birds?

 

[Bonehead]

I just had an epiphany. We need to fill the Rent on game days and these birds are losing their home. LET THE BIRDS IN THE RENT ON GAMEDAY. Problems solved.

nope - they leave droppings on bleachers...