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Understand, But, the name has been around a long, long time and it seems to me the name has been substantially transformed to a non-offensive meaning and to actually the opposite. It would be one thing if the word was used in common discourse in a pejorative way, but I really don't think that is remotely the case and hasn't been in use or circulation for a very log time. Words do acquire other meanings over time. If I thought it really was something intended to be nasty and demeaning, would agree with you.

Slavery was around for a long time too. Hell, in South Carolina it is still technically legal to beat your wife as long as you do it t on State Grounds. "Tradition" or "it has always been that way" have always been terrible reasons to continue bigotry. Having the team representing the nation's capital named as a word recognized as a racial slur for over a century is a damn shame.
 

junglehusky

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I'm offended by many posts on this board - but I pull my britches up and accept others stupidity like a man. Directed to no one in particular and everyone.

Serious post - Redskin is a name of a team and not being used in derogatory manner as the N word is usually used in today's society. I have never heard Redskin used except as the name of a football team - never. I have spent 5 years in the service - mostly out west with men and women from all over the country and I never heard it used. I have heard rap music - never heard it used. I am on the side of over reaction at this point. Yes there is a group of Native Americans that want it changed and there is a part of me that understands but this is where it gets sloppy - everyone is offended by something. There were a group of UConn students offended by the new Husky logo. If the word is that offensive why is it used by ESPN, NFL and every news network? You would never hear the N word on TV. Thug can't be used as people say it replaces the N word.

I could find many names offensive - and/or mascots but those things seem to not bother me but bother others. I believe the Atlanta Brave was an issue at one point. I guess I am old school on this, not saying I don't understand just don't know where it will stop.

For what it's worth, if you read the actual essay on the Husky logo, it's not actually about the logo.

As far as the Redskins name, you may want to read up on the Phips Proclamation, which was issued by the Lt. Governor of Massachussetts in 1755, which put a literal bounty on the scalps of Penobscot Indians. As in, if you went out and killed an Indian, cut off his scalp and hair and brought it to the Governor, they gave you twenty pounds. Now I don't know if this is the actual origin of the term Redskins. However, I wouldn't argue with those Native Americans who believe it is (but then, I try not to be an unless it's for a good reason).
 
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ConnHuskBask

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I really, really hate political correctness and normally take the stance that people being " offended" is laughable.

That being said, the name "Redskin" seems pretty bad.

Maybe it's not so much the actual name but the treatment of the native Americans throughout history and fighting this fight may shed some light onto their plight.

They got rid of Chief Wahoo because it was pretty ridiculous and it seems Redskin is next.

Again, I hate the PC world we live in, but come on, this is kind of over the top.
 

HuskyV

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Who is a racist? This was a funny scene on HBO's Silicon Valley

Need to watch on youtube, search:
Racist Mexican (Silicon Valley S01E05)

 
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False revisionist history. The issue was Christian denominational related. The writings of the framers beyond those few usually referenced were Christian. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

Cite some evidence then. Pretty hard to be educated in those days and not be at least influenced by Deist philosophy. These days the bible bangers would have you believe that the framers acted like southern baptists and ate at Cracker Barrell.
 
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Cite some evidence then. Pretty hard to be educated in those days and not be at least influenced by Deist philosophy. These days the bible bangers would have you believe that the framers acted like southern baptists and ate at Cracker Barrell.

Would be happy too. In fact there are US Supreme Court and a variety of state Supreme Court decisions in our early history that explicitly reference this basic point. And, there even someone modern affirmations up to the 1940s. As well, numerous signers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights reference this essential fact in their writings. I will dig them up for you. I would caution that stereotyping folks as those who cling to bibles and the Constitution as redneck crackle barrel lovers is not persuasive.
 
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Native Americans don't find it offensive. Do the research before making naive statements
 
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For what it's worth, if you read the actual essay on the Husky logo, it's not actually about the logo.

As far as the Redskins name, you may want to read up on the Phips Proclamation, which was issued by the Lt. Governor of Massachussetts in 1755, which put a literal bounty on the scalps of Penobscot Indians. As in, if you went out and killed an Indian, cut off his scalp and hair and brought it to the Governor, they gave you twenty pounds. Now I don't know if this is the actual origin of the term Redskins. However, I wouldn't argue with those Native Americans who believe it is (but then, I try not to be an unless it's for a good reason).
20 pounds was good money back then. :eek:

I propose we revise what we call the natives and call them North Koreans!
 
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Q; Just WHO is so upset about the Redskin name? I don't see huge rallies of American Indians protesting this? Are these the same people who do not want "Under God" used by any government entity or people like the principal at the high school who did not want the Pledge of Allegiance said before a school function as it may offend the foreign students? How about NOT wearing a T-shirt with the American flag on Cinco de Mayo? I am Irish and I am offended by the Notre Dame's logo of a Fighting Irishman! Really..is that next PC move?
Considering the moniker "Irish" goes back to Fielding Yost, I suggest you gather your Irish brethren together and have discussions with Notre Dame, a school with a French name.
 
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Why is "Indian" offensive?

Imagine you are part of a dying culture: the Native Americans. Yeah, the Europeans came over and basically took everything and raped the Earth and claimed it as theirs, great. Fine. You don't blame the current Americans -- they weren't even alive when any of this happened. You understand.

But your culture is so marginalized that even now, literally over 200 years later, they think so little of your culture, that they continue to use the mistaken name the racist who came over and "discovered" America used to describe your indigenous peoples. Even now, hundreds of years later, they insist upon their mistake: "No, no, really... you're Indians."

People cheer on the fact that Americans can't even be bothered to acknowledge that you are not, in fact, Indians, and that India is totally a separate culture with nothing to do with you and your people.
 

uconnbill

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sorry but political correctness run amok.

This was pushed by politicians and one small group in upstate NY. Traditions mean nothing in today's let's not offend anyone and everyone should get a trophy society.
 
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sorry but political correctness run amok.

This was pushed by politicians and one small group in upstate NY. Traditions mean nothing in today's let's not offend anyone and everyone should get a trophy society.

So if a team were called the Washington Slant Eyes, that would be ok?
 
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Would be happy too. In fact there are US Supreme Court and a variety of state Supreme Court decisions in our early history that explicitly reference this basic point. And, there even someone modern affirmations up to the 1940s. As well, numerous signers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights reference this essential fact in their writings. I will dig them up for you. I would caution that stereotyping folks as those who cling to bibles and the Constitution as redneck crackle barrel lovers is not persuasive.

So you're saying the Framers weren't for a separation of Chuch and State and were essentially against religious freedom?

It actually is pretty persuasive because in the part of the country I live you almost expect the people to believe that the Framers just couldn't stop talking about the Good lord Baby Jesus. Which is pretty hilarious.
 

Bonehead

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For what it's worth, if you read the actual essay on the Husky logo, it's not actually about the logo.

As far as the Redskins name, you may want to read up on the Phips Proclamation, which was issued by the Lt. Governor of Massachussetts in 1755, which put a literal bounty on the scalps of Penobscot Indians. As in, if you went out and killed an Indian, cut off his scalp and hair and brought it to the Governor, they gave you twenty pounds. Now I don't know if this is the actual origin of the term Redskins. However, I wouldn't argue with those Native Americans who believe it is (but then, I try not to be an unless it's for a good reason).

Good points but -

I read the letter from the student and she states the following - using the word 'offended'
"As a UConn student who is proud of my University’s academics and my future degree, I feel frustrated; as a woman student living at this campus I am outright offended. I am appalled by the selective amnesia these justifications display and angered at the superficiality of this Visual Identity Program."

The new husky logo is part of the Visual Identity Program in my eyes. I don't agree just stating all things offend someone these days."
http://thefeministwire.com/2013/04/an-open-letter-to-uconn-president-susan-herbst/


I have not read up on the Phips Proclamation however I believe that scalps were paid for. They were fighting one another and proof of killing an Indian was the scalp as opposed to dragging the whole body in. Also, the Redskins football team helmet has an Indian whose scalp is still attached - with a full head of hair - so that Redskin is a person of Redskin, not an Indian with its scalp removed. However, I don't believe that to be the origin of Redskin - as a matter of fact I believe the origin to be that of the Indians themselves - a way the described themselves differently from the 'white' man or Europeans. I believe it to be the color of their skin - the same way they describe the 'white man'.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_...hington_football_team_s_name_incorrectly.html

Some portions -

'There's a lot of disagreement even over what Redskins mean. Some people say it's a European term that referred to the fact that Indians there painted their faces red. Other people say, no, it refers to American Indians being scalped, two very different things, I think. But if you look in the dictionary, in pretty much every dictionary it's referred to as an offensive term. That would give me pause if I ever happened to own a football [team] to have that name. And I think it is offensive. The fact that a lot of people don't find it offensive probably has to do with the fact that they probably don't know exactly what it means.'

'In 2005, the Indian language scholar Ives Goddard of the Smithsonian Institution published a remarkable and consequential study of redskin's early history. His findings shifted the dates for the word's first appearance in print by more than a century and shed an awkward light on the contemporary debate. Goddard found, in summary, that "the actual origin of the word is entirely benign."
Redskin, he learned, had not emerged first in English or any European language. The English term, in fact, derived from Native American phrases involving the color red in combination with terms for flesh, skin, and man. These phrases were part of a racial vocabulary that Indians often used to designate themselves in opposition to others whom they (like the Europeans) called black, white, and so on.'

'It was used at the White House when President Madison requested that various Indian tribes steer clear of an alliance with Britain. No Ears, a chief of the Little Osages, spoke in reply and one of his statements was translated as, "I know the manners of the whites and the red skins." Only in 2004, however, when the Papers of James Madison project at the University of Virginia reached the year 1812 did this and another use of redskin from the same meeting come to light.
The word became even more well known when the Meskwaki chief Black Thunder delivered a speech at a treaty conference after the War of 1812. Black Thunder, whose words were translated by an interpreter, said that he would speak calmly and without fear, adding, "I turn to all, red skins and white skins, and challenge an accusation against me."
In the coming years, redskin became a key element of the English-language rhetoric used by Indians and Americans alike to speak about each other and to each other. Goddard mentions numerous Indian speeches that were translated and printed in English-language newspapers. From such speeches, Goddard observes, James Fenimore Cooper almost certainly learned the word, which he then began using in his novels in the 1820s.'

Now I don't know if this is the actual origin of the term Redskins. However, I wouldn't argue with those Native Americans who believe it is (but then, I try not to be an unless it's for a good reason) - but if I don't find it offensive, I don't find it offensive.
 
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So you're saying the Framers weren't for a separation of Chuch and State and were essentially against religious freedom?

It actually is pretty persuasive because in the part of the country I live you almost expect the people to believe that the Framers just couldn't stop talking about the Good lord Baby Jesus. Which is pretty hilarious.
The framers were against a "State Religion" like the Church of England. I do not believe they were against the use of "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance in our public schools or the Christmas manger scene on the town green.
 
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Imagine you are part of a dying culture: the Native Americans. Yeah, the Europeans came over and basically took everything and raped the Earth and claimed it as theirs, great. Fine. You don't blame the current Americans -- they weren't even alive when any of this happened. You understand.

But your culture is so marginalized that even now, literally over 200 years later, they think so little of your culture, that they continue to use the mistaken name the racist who came over and "discovered" America used to describe your indigenous peoples. Even now, hundreds of years later, they insist upon their mistake: "No, no, really... you're Indians."

People cheer on the fact that Americans can't even be bothered to acknowledge that you are not, in fact, Indians, and that India is totally a separate culture with nothing to do with you and your people.

Well I knew we had to disagree at some point. This is just PC run amok.
 
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sorry but political correctness run amok.

This was pushed by politicians and one small group in upstate NY. Traditions mean nothing in today's let's not offend anyone and everyone should get a trophy society.

Bill I hate political correctness as much as anyone but the name Redskin was used as a racial slur. This is why I hate when people unnecessarily play the race card or go way over the top PC. Because in legit cases of racism like this people's first instincts are to attribute it to the other nonsense. See Loop's response to my question about why Indians is offensive.
 
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See Loop's response to my question about why Indians is offensive.
Again, India is on another continent. I am going to start calling you Nigerian. You're Nigerian. Oh wait, I mean, you're an Arab. (Which actually probably has truth to it if you're an Italian; your language was influenced by Arabic.)

People wonder why humanity is hopeless. Correcting a completely wrong ethnic reference is "PC". That is incredibly stupid.
 

Adesmar123

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Indians are Asian. We're in Asia.

God Almighty. Have mercy.


I am offended by your use of the word God in this context. Have you no respect for the beliefs and feelings of other people?
 
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