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Paige and Other Things

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First, I'll get my Clark criticism out of the way. She can't play defense. WNBA players have said this many times. Second, she throws up clown shots which won't work as a pro. Third, she is turnover happy. Lastly, she has never learned to be a team player.
Now to Paige. She is a master in all phases of basketball. You know it's true. Second, she is destined to be the UConn women's BB coach. Yes! I had a dream about this. In my defense...some see the check mate 10 moves ahead, some see it 3 moves ahead, and others see it at the checkmate.
 

oldude

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First, I'll get my Clark criticism out of the way. She can't play defense. WNBA players have said this many times. Second, she throws up clown shots which won't work as a pro. Third, she is turnover happy. Lastly, she has never learned to be a team player.
Now to Paige. She is a master in all phases of basketball. You know it's true. Second, she is destined to be the UConn women's BB coach. Yes! I had a dream about this. In my defense...some see the check mate 10 moves ahead, some see it 3 moves ahead, and others see it at the checkmate.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of Paige, but your critique of CC is a bit premature. CC will be a great player in the W. The best response to your comments about CC might be from Paige herself, “Celebrating other people’s success does not diminish yours.”
 
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I don’t disagree with your assessment of Paige, but your critique of CC is a bit premature. CC will be a great player in the W. The best response to your comments about CC might be from Paige herself, “Celebrating other people’s success does not diminish yours.”
OD, you should have saved that for the "Memorable Sports Quote" thread.
 

Blakeon18

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The criticism of CC is premature and way over the top.

She IS a team player...albeit a ball dominant one. Her Iowa team without her would have been
pretty decent. Thanks to her shooting and passing they were excellent. She led the nation....NATION...
in assists...I think twice. She was ball dominant because her coach wanted/needed her to be so to
help the team. My bet is that the coach had her on a very short leash regarding defense because she well knew
what would happen if CC got in foul trouble.

She'll play defense in the pros simply because it will be required of her. It won't ever be her trump card granted.

CC is great for the game...that counts.

I do think Paige will prove the better all-round player when done is done.
 
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I have kind of said this before. Clark’s temperament on the court is not good, even her dad has told her to calm down out there. She kind of has gotten spoiled expecting everything to go her way on the court. Also to an extent, her game isn’t exactly a formula for team success in the wnba. With that being said, I do believe she will figure it out and be one of the best players again because of her talents. I do think Paige if on a team that has a successful history of winning will win more wnba titles because her game is more of a winning formula in the wnba. Just my thoughts and have been for a loooong time.
 
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First, I'll get my Clark criticism out of the way. She can't play defense. WNBA players have said this many times. Second, she throws up clown shots which won't work as a pro. Third, she is turnover happy. Lastly, she has never learned to be a team player.
Now to Paige. She is a master in all phases of basketball. You know it's true. Second, she is destined to be the UConn women's BB coach. Yes! I had a dream about this. In my defense...some see the check mate 10 moves ahead, some see it 3 moves ahead, and others see it at the checkmate.
1. You're right about the defense part.
2. In college, yes, she did throw the ball up within 2 seconds of the possession started, and yeah, that probably stops in the W. Her teammates would rip her a new one if she did that more than 4 times a game I would think.
3. TOs are definitely a problem, some of them are out of bad decision making (passing to Boston while she has 2 defenders crowding her) or because her teammates don't run to the pass. There's definitely work to be done there.
4. Uhhh... she led the nation in assists for 2 years in a row. I think 7-8 per game is "team ball." We can say she wasn't a team player as a freshman maybe, because the assists numbers back then didn't match to actually watching her play. A quote from an article from CC herself a while back said something like "I'm not going to pass it because you won't make it," to one of her teammates. That's immaturity and she seems to have grown out of that phase. Though I will admit that the championship loss this year, she made some blunders at the end not giving the ball to a wide open Martin or Marshall at the 3, and instead she chucked a contested 2 multiple times.

PB's weakness is the confidence level in big games and being guarded by quick, scrappy defenders. She practically disappeared against Texas against Harmon, and she had a quiet 15 points against Hidalgo. She also doesn't know when to fully take over in some games. But we can expect some growth next season, especially because she won't have to carry the team on her back for the first half of the season with everyone healthy again.
IMO, she is more WNBA ready than Clark. Not only does UCONN have one of the best OOC every year, so they face tons and tons of future WNBA rookies, but Paige also possesses one of the most important shots in the WNBA, which is the midrange. It's hard to defend in college and the pros, because of the movement associated with it, and its sudden occurrence on offense. Paige can hit it from anywhere, which makes it even more unpredictable. The fadeaway is the other most important shot IMO, which is why it sucks Kitley is hurt.

Paige is lethal from that spot, and you can see its widespread use in the pros. Not only is it smooth and simple, the lean from the jump that PB likes separates her from the defense. In some cases, players lean a bit more forward, like Ash does, rather than backwards, but it's still useful either way. It's something CC must add to her bag. She also plays great defense, is tall, lanky, can pass, and versatile from positions 1-3.
 

Centerstream

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First, I'll get my Clark criticism out of the way. She can't play defense. WNBA players have said this many times. Second, she throws up clown shots which won't work as a pro. Third, she is turnover happy. Lastly, she has never learned to be a team player.
Now to Paige. She is a master in all phases of basketball. You know it's true. Second, she is destined to be the UConn women's BB coach. Yes! I had a dream about this. In my defense...some see the check mate 10 moves ahead, some see it 3 moves ahead, and others see it at the checkmate.
Is this a Paige thread or just clickbait for another Caitlin Clark thread?:eek::rolleyes:
 
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Paige is "our hero".... Caitlin: aka "CC".... " a lot of potential there" To be continued!
 
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Just waiting patiently for Paige to be back with a formidable support cast to lead us through a memorable season!

CC will figure things out and shape her own history. Most likely, that story will be different from the one her fans had projected on her behalf. Nevertheless, her passion for the game and her demonstrated skills will ensure the story is a good one.

Meanwhile Paige will continue to shape her own story and legacy!
 

MSGRET

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Compare her 3 pt average to KLS, CC has a 32.1% average vs KLS average of 57.1%. I think they need to have KLS shoot it a little more than CC. There have been times that Clark has taken a bad shot when KLS is wide open on the wing.
 
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The price of her wealth and fame is that the spotlight doesn't dim when you fail. All the media is interested in is the ratings. Clark's ability isn't in question to me. As for criticism, it goes with the shoe deal and all the rest. Quid pro quo.
 
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First, I'll get my Clark criticism out of the way. She can't play defense. WNBA players have said this many times. Second, she throws up clown shots which won't work as a pro. Third, she is turnover happy. Lastly, she has never learned to be a team player.
Now to Paige. She is a master in all phases of basketball. You know it's true. Second, she is destined to be the UConn women's BB coach. Yes! I had a dream about this. In my defense...some see the check mate 10 moves ahead, some see it 3 moves ahead, and others see it at the checkmate.
”That’s way harsh, Tai” The poor girl has played three games in the best pro league in the world! Yes, she’s had some struggles! She did show significant improvement her third game and her teammates appear to be reluctant to pass her the ball and also seem unable to catch her passes! They are also apparently not calling out screens for her! Give her some time and I think she will be a star in this league as well. Of course, it would help if her coach and teammates got behind her and gave her some support and other players would stop sniping at her. I would choose Paige too but that doesn’t mean Clark isn’t a hell of a player!
 
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I think some people are going overboard on their criticism of Caitlin. Say what you will about her, but the fact that their are endless opinions on her tells a lot. She is 3 games in in her pro career, hardly enough to qualify as an exhaustive study.

Like many individuals, it is hard to break old habits. While CC did amazing things for Iowa & WCBB in general, she has brought some tendencies with her to the WNBA honed over many years. She's smart & savvy enough to realize and work on her game. Yes, her defense needs to improve, she needs to cut down on turnovers, consider making the safe pass at times instead of going for the "wow" factor, rely a little less on the 3-pt shot, and add a pull-up jumper to vary her game.

However, CC possesses some singular talents. She can hit from anywhere, she has unparalleled court vision, a competitive edge and charisma. Anyone singing her epithet will likely have to eat crow. She's going to be great. Give her time to figure it out.

As for Paige, she will only get better. As long as her body holds up, she is and will be a superstar. I'll go out on a limb (not a real stretch), and state that Paige will be NPOY. JuJu will have to wait another season. As good as Paige was last season, she will be even better. Her body will be stronger and her confidence in it will permit her to add more elements to her game. The only thing that will stop Paige is Paige. Hopefully, Geno's lessons will flourish in her last season at UConn.
 
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The price of her wealth and fame is that the spotlight doesn't dim when you fail. All the media is interested in is the ratings. Clark's ability isn't in question to me. As for criticism, it goes with the shoe deal and all the rest. Quid pro quo.
Yeah, look at all the criticism Stewie and A’ja are getting!
 
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I said basically this in the other Caitlin thread... She has a lot to learn, and I think she WILL learn. But not yet... In time, she'll be a great pro if she learns well.

Paige is closer to WNBA-ready, better at working in a system where she doesn't have to be the big scorer all the time.
 

Huskee11

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There have been times that Clark has taken a bad shot when KLS is wide open on the wing.
The one constant in Lou’s WNBA career thus far has been just that.

Very few players drive and kick in the WNBA. They drive and shoot, shoot, shoot. Nika may be a notable exception to that, if this visa matter ever gets resolved.
 
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I always feel like a Debbie downer, but I do think Paige has some places for growth.
In arguably the most important game of her career she scored 17 points on 17 shots, had more turnover than assist and let Kate Martin outscore her in the 4th quarter. Sounds very haterish but those are the raw facts. And even if the raw facts are ugly it wouldn't matter if the team won. But it just didn't feel like she did enough to help the team win. There was a senior class at Uconn that got drilled for not winning a natty (Megan Walker, Crystal Dangerfield, even ONO and CWill all don't feel part of UConn lore despite great careers). PB came to put Uconn back on the map. In the end her class ended up not winning a natty. I do think AE and Nika were close to become UConn royalty if they did win but they lost. That's y I don't like the formidable supporting cast narrative. CC literally played with 1 other pro. Wasn't Kamilla the only All American on SC this past year. Paige has played with 4 pros currently in the league. Two others that have basically been in and out of the league.
I'm just gonna get the full rant out of my system. When DT and SB lost to Notre Dame in 01, how do u think they responded. Ppl kill Angel Reese and Hailey Van Lith for their popularity and doing stuff outside of the game. A week after losing PB is traveling to Miami, idk it just feels like a different age. She's a kid. I get it. Take advantage of all opportunities, life is bigger than basketball, college kids shouldn't be assessed like pros. I get it. I'm also not saying she's not great and those off games should never happen. But I think she really does have to earn back the best player in the nation moniker, crown. I will gladly eat crow if UConn is dominant this year. And then as far as coaching UConn... I just don't see it. Obviously she loves the game and a great ambassador of the sport. And this is of course like a 15-20 year prophecy and a lot can change. I could see Sue Bird, I could see Evina Westbrook.
 

MSGRET

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The one constant in Lou’s WNBA career thus far has been just that.

Very few players drive and kick in the WNBA. They drive and shoot, shoot, shoot. Nika may be a notable exception to that, if this visa matter ever gets resolved.
That's why I like the Ace's so much, they do pass the ball to the open player more often than not.
 
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In arguably the most important game of her career she scored 17 points on 17 shots, had more turnover than assist and let Kate Martin outscore her in the 4th quarter. Sounds very haterish but those are the raw facts. And even if the raw facts are ugly it wouldn't matter if the team won. But it just didn't feel like she did enough to help the team win.
Not sure I agree with some of your criticisms. But you’re right that it wasn’t Paige’s best game. To me, she looked tired, probably from having to carry the team as far as she did. Aaliyah looked tired too. And it looked like Ash KK and Ice faded a bit too. This was about as far as they could go, and that was damn close to an NC game. The only one who didn’t seem tired was Nika.

We’ve seen this story before. Her sophomore year Paige came back from a devastating knee injury and carried the team to an NC game while held together with duct tape and baling wire. She did everything she could to will that team to a championship. But again the rest of the team was not able to follow where she would lead them, and the loss of Dorka was a hard emotional hit for all of them.

But I think we’d all agree they’d have gone nowhere in either tournament without Paige. It was a similar story her freshman year. Arizona was able to key on her because no one else made them change their defense. I loved all those players too, Liv Aaliyah Christyn Evina and Nika, but they lost that game not Paige. I think something similar happened this year too.

This time around Gabby and Kate Martin played excellent defense on Paige. But the clear fact is that Hannah Stuelke had an excellent game against Aaliyah, largely because of assists from Caitlin, and KK had a good game, but Ash and Ice faded. I don’t blame them. It’s tough to deal with the pressure in your first go-round. That KK could speaks volumes about her.

So no, I don’t blame Paige for any of these losses, even though she most certainly does. Does she have areas to improve in? Sure but I’ll be damned if I have a diagnosis. She looks awesome to me.
 
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I always feel like a Debbie downer, but I do think Paige has some places for growth.
In arguably the most important game of her career she scored 17 points on 17 shots, had more turnover than assist and let Kate Martin outscore her in the 4th quarter. Sounds very haterish but those are the raw facts. And even if the raw facts are ugly it wouldn't matter if the team won. But it just didn't feel like she did enough to help the team win. There was a senior class at Uconn that got drilled for not winning a natty (Megan Walker, Crystal Dangerfield, even ONO and CWill all don't feel part of UConn lore despite great careers). PB came to put Uconn back on the map. In the end her class ended up not winning a natty. I do think AE and Nika were close to become UConn royalty if they did win but they lost. That's y I don't like the formidable supporting cast narrative. CC literally played with 1 other pro. Wasn't Kamilla the only All American on SC this past year. Paige has played with 4 pros currently in the league. Two others that have basically been in and out of the league.
I'm just gonna get the full rant out of my system. When DT and SB lost to Notre Dame in 01, how do u think they responded. Ppl kill Angel Reese and Hailey Van Lith for their popularity and doing stuff outside of the game. A week after losing PB is traveling to Miami, idk it just feels like a different age. She's a kid. I get it. Take advantage of all opportunities, life is bigger than basketball, college kids shouldn't be assessed like pros. I get it. I'm also not saying she's not great and those off games should never happen. But I think she really does have to earn back the best player in the nation moniker, crown. I will gladly eat crow if UConn is dominant this year. And then as far as coaching UConn... I just don't see it. Obviously she loves the game and a great ambassador of the sport. And this is of course like a 15-20 year prophecy and a lot can change. I could see Sue Bird, I could see Evina Westbrook.
I disagree with the enitre context of your post. IMO a lot of recency bias and irrelevant facts..
 
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I always feel like a Debbie downer, but I do think Paige has some places for growth.
In arguably the most important game of her career she scored 17 points on 17 shots, had more turnover than assist and let Kate Martin outscore her in the 4th quarter. Sounds very haterish but those are the raw facts. And even if the raw facts are ugly it wouldn't matter if the team won. But it just didn't feel like she did enough to help the team win. There was a senior class at Uconn that got drilled for not winning a natty (Megan Walker, Crystal Dangerfield, even ONO and CWill all don't feel part of UConn lore despite great careers). PB came to put Uconn back on the map. In the end her class ended up not winning a natty. I do think AE and Nika were close to become UConn royalty if they did win but they lost. That's y I don't like the formidable supporting cast narrative. CC literally played with 1 other pro. Wasn't Kamilla the only All American on SC this past year. Paige has played with 4 pros currently in the league. Two others that have basically been in and out of the league.
I'm just gonna get the full rant out of my system. When DT and SB lost to Notre Dame in 01, how do u think they responded. Ppl kill Angel Reese and Hailey Van Lith for their popularity and doing stuff outside of the game. A week after losing PB is traveling to Miami, idk it just feels like a different age. She's a kid. I get it. Take advantage of all opportunities, life is bigger than basketball, college kids shouldn't be assessed like pros. I get it. I'm also not saying she's not great and those off games should never happen. But I think she really does have to earn back the best player in the nation moniker, crown. I will gladly eat crow if UConn is dominant this year. And then as far as coaching UConn... I just don't see it. Obviously she loves the game and a great ambassador of the sport. And this is of course like a 15-20 year prophecy and a lot can change. I could see Sue Bird, I could see Evina Westbrook.
Maybe you feel that way cause you are a Debbie Downer. Haterish is not a word but I get your drift. You do seem to have some unresolved issues regarding Paige. I think Paige, so far, has had little help in the big games where she has ( admittedly) underperformed. She imo has burned herself out getting us there and is either not yet 100% or doesn’t have enough left in the tank to finish it off. That is why I believe we have the best chance this next season because (if we can stay healthy) we will have enough serious talent to actually help her out when we get to that crucial game.
 

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