OT: Magic Johnson revisited

[Kitaman]

I know there are a lot of Lebron lovers and rightfully so, and Jordan is still considered the best.

BUT, in my book a man called Magic will be considered the most exciting and at 6'10" the most electrifying big man ever. At times he was the tallest man on the floor. My only regret is that I never saw him in person.

Anyway why compare Lebron to Jordan as opposed to Magic, or at least putting Magic's name in the comparison? Sure Jordan was better (not sure by how much) but I think Magic is #2 for now. Not sure why or how Lebron leap-frogged him in the discussions. Anyway there are a lot of 20 somethings on this board and I want to remind them of the greatest PG ever.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The Lakers beating the Sixers in Magic's rookie year is my first memories of NBA basketball. His game six performance when the Lakers played without Kareem was one of the five best playoff performances ever.

But Magic was 6'8" or 6'9". No way was he 6'10".

As a sidenote. Dr. J's rocking the cradle dunk got me hooked on bball. Another player whose impact seems to be fading as this generation progresses along. No one could attack the basket from the wing like the Dr.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I know there are a lot of Lebron lovers and rightfully so, and Jordan is still considered the best.

BUT, in my book a man called Magic will be considered the most exciting and at 6'10" the most electrifying big man ever. At times he was the tallest man on the floor. My only regret is that I never saw him in person.

Anyway why compare Lebron to Jordan as opposed to Magic, or at least putting Magic's name in the comparison? Sure Jordan was better (not sure by how much) but I think Magic is #2 for now. Not sure why or how Lebron leap-frogged him in the discussions. Anyway there are a lot of 20 somethings on this board and I want to remind them of the greatest PG ever.

I think the lack of resonance in Magic's career in terms of consideration as THE top player ever stems from fan emphasis on scoring. Magic simply wasn't a transcendent scorer, merely an all-star level scorer. When you combined that with his assist abilities (arguably best ever) and running a team you have an all-timer. But I think a lot of the romance of the game is tied to shotmaking or amazing physical feats and that wasn't Magic. For example a 5-minute video of Larry Bird's greatest plays would be more entertaining to most versus Magic's.

A difference with both of those guys (Bird, Magic) versus LeBron and Jordan is defense. The earlier guys had some steals (Bird was a great team defender), but neither were near the lockdown defenders (1st team all defense) that LeBron and MJ can/could be.

 

[Kitaman]

I think the lack of resonance in Magic's career in terms of consideration as THE top player ever stems from fan emphasis on scoring. Magic simply wasn't a transcendent scorer, merely an all-star level scorer. When you combined that with his assist abilities (arguably best ever) and running a team you have an all-timer. But I think a lot of the romance of the game is tied to shotmaking or amazing physical feats and that wasn't Magic. For example a 5-minute video of Larry Bird's greatest plays would be more entertaining to most versus Magic's.

A difference with both of those guys (Bird, Magic) versus LeBron and Jordan is defense. The earlier guys had some steals (Bird was a great team defender), but neither were near the lockdown defenders (1st team all defense) that LeBron and MJ can/could be.

Good points. I guess the better or more challenging question is which one would you select to build you team around?

 

[Dogdeacon]

Good points. I guess the better or more challenging question is which one would you select to build you team around?

There I think height rules. If NBA GM's had all the greatest ever in one draft class I'd bet it'd go like this
1. Chamberlain
2. Lew Alcindor
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. LeBron
6. MJ

If I'm staring a team I gotta pick Russell as in hindsight he's the biggest winner. Then MJ

 

[Chin Diesel]

I think the lack of resonance in Magic's career in terms of consideration as THE top player ever stems from fan emphasis on scoring. Magic simply wasn't a transcendent scorer, merely an all-star level scorer. When you combined that with his assist abilities (arguably best ever) and running a team you have an all-timer. But I think a lot of the romance of the game is tied to shotmaking or amazing physical feats and that wasn't Magic. For example a 5-minute video of Larry Bird's greatest plays would be more entertaining to most versus Magic's.

A difference with both of those guys (Bird, Magic) versus LeBron and Jordan is defense. The earlier guys had some steals (Bird was a great team defender), but neither were near the lockdown defenders (1st team all defense) that LeBron and MJ can/could be.

In your opinion.

 

[nomar]

In my opinion, too.

Did Magic ever do this?

http://celticsgreen.blogspot.com/2012/12/larry-birds-left-handed-game.html

Not saying Bird was better, but dude could put on a show.

 

[Dogdeacon]

In your opinion.

Was that necessary? I think it is clear that I haven't engaged test audiences for Magic and Bird videos.

But if you want to be a nitwit:
2,611,371 views


2,521,851 views
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxBM3dTPc_k

 

[Deepster]

A couple things...

1) Speaking of the Dr. J cradle dunk, I highly recommend the documentary on NBA TV called "The Doctor". Insane footage that (as a huge Doc fan) had never seen before. Must see for an old school hoops fan.

2) I will go to my grave saying the Bird/Magic era was the NBA's apex. Team basketball played at it's highest level. I will also say that Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson ruined it forever. They took the team game and put 8 players in one corner of the court, letting Jordan go 1 on 1 on virtually every possession for the last 5 minutes of each game. That's the heralded "Triangle" offense. Clear out and let the best 1 on 1 player in the world do his thing. The game hasn't rebounded or morphed into something as good or better than the Bird/Magic era since.

 

[nomar]

A couple things...

1) Speaking of the Dr. J cradle dunk, I highly recommend the documentary on NBA TV called "The Doctor". Insane footage that (as a huge Doc fan) had never seen before. Must see for an old school hoops fan.

2) I will go to my grave saying the Bird/Magic era was the NBA's apex. Team basketball played at it's highest level. I will also say that Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson ruined it forever. They took the team game and put 8 players in one corner of the court, letting Jordan go 1 on 1 on virtually every possession for the last 5 minutes of each game. That's the heralded "Triangle" offense. Clear out and let the best 1 on 1 player in the world do his thing. The game hasn't rebounded or morphed into something as good or better than the Bird/Magic era since.

I have to say, the NBA was a lot more fun to watch back then, but the defense was atrocious. I caught a game from the '77 Finals (Blazers-Bullets) a couple years back and my jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe how lazy the defense was. The philosophy then, and during the 1980s, was: A good offense is the best defense. Then the Bad Boys came. Then the Knicks-Heat battles. Ugly stuff. Maybe not better basketball overall. But the defense was a million times better.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Was that necessary? I think it is clear that I haven't engaged test audiences for Magic and Bird videos.

But if you want to be a nitwit:

It's still your opinion that a Bird highlight reel is better than a Magic highlight reel. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. You are the one who said Bird's reel is more entertaining to most, not me.

Enjoy each player for who they were. Both were atypical of the prototype for their positions and were incredible players.

If I wanted to be a nitwit I'd point out that you could make a Magic mixtape with 5 championships and with Larry, well, you couldn't.

 

[cordeodato]

Two best players in my mind are
1) Magic
2) Oscar
Seemed to me that when they were on the court most everyone
else was trying to catch up to them.
I am trying to make a distinction here, not sure I can do it.
While they were on the court they were both the best team player and best
individual player on the court. They made everyone else better but at the same time
you knew it was them that were controlling the game.
Michael Jordan & Pat Ewing turned me off of the pro game. The idea of a team
game died when they came into the league. Much more boring. Great invidual
talents, did great things, but they were Jupiter and the rest of the team just revolved around
them like vassal moons.
Don't want to forget the mandatory Oscar stat--one year he averaged a triple double--OMG

 

[Dogdeacon]

It's still your opinion that a Bird highlight reel is better than a Magic highlight reel. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. You are the one who said Bird's reel is more entertaining to most, not me.

Enjoy each player for who they were. Both were atypical of the prototype for their positions and were incredible players.

If I wanted to be a nitwit I'd point out that you could make a Magic mixtape with 5 championships and with Larry, well, you couldn't.

My point was that I think (IMO, my best guess etc.. seems repetitive to mention on a msg board but whatever) people are more inclined to watch a great scoring play versus an assist (another illustration is when they show 'the pass' they always show 'the basket' and a great pass with a missed shot is rarely if ever included) and if you read my post you might notice I was pointing out that (again IMO) this contributes to Magic possibly being under-valued historically in the greatest ever discussion. The Larry Bird vs. Magic tape was an EXAMPLE to illustrate scoring popularity versus assist popularity - again IMO. That's it. So simply no need for the pissing contest about Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson.

 

[hthusky74]

The Lakers beating the Sixers in Magic's rookie year is my first memories of NBA basketball. His game six performance when the Lakers played without Kareem was one of the five best playoff performances ever.

But Magic was 6'8" or 6'9". No way was he 6'10".

As a sidenote. Dr. J's rocking the cradle dunk got me hooked on bball. Another player whose impact seems to be fading as this generation progresses along. No one could attack the basket from the wing like the Dr.

When the Dr. came down the court on a fast break to make one of his "house calls" it was one of the most beautiful, graceful things in all of sports. I'm including figure skating and gymnastics too! Plus it always varied. Simple dunk, cradle dunk, sky high dunk, finger roll, reverse side dunk,... He was a work of art!

 

[Dogbreath2U]

It's fun to see highlights of each of them (Magic and Bird). One thing that they both had over Jordan was incredible court vision/awareness which made them such great passers.

 

[RichZ]

In my mind, especially given the circumstances, Magic's single handed victory playing point center versus the Sixers was the single greatest performance I've ever seen on a basketball court.

Magic's assists not entertaining? They call it SHOWTIME for a reason.

And as far as point guards go, after Magic, there's Oscar, followed by as whole lot of also rans.

Then again, Pistol Pete had the moves, the imagination, miraculous ball handling skills, and a scoring touch that hasn't been duplicated since. Maybe it was just the length of his career and never being on a championship caliber team, but he doesn't have the cache that Magic and Oscar do.

If I'm building an all time team, I want Russel in the middle, Magic at the point, Pete at the 2 guard, and for entertainment value, Dr J and Chuck to fill out the forward spots.

 

[Calhoun's Court]

A couple things...

1) Speaking of the Dr. J cradle dunk, I highly recommend the documentary on NBA TV called "The Doctor". Insane footage that (as a huge Doc fan) had never seen before. Must see for an old school hoops fan.

2) I will go to my grave saying the Bird/Magic era was the NBA's apex. Team basketball played at it's highest level. I will also say that Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson ruined it forever. They took the team game and put 8 players in one corner of the court, letting Jordan go 1 on 1 on virtually every possession for the last 5 minutes of each game. That's the heralded "Triangle" offense. Clear out and let the best 1 on 1 player in the world do his thing. The game hasn't rebounded or morphed into something as good or better than the Bird/Magic era since.

Another must see is the slam dunk competition from 1975-1976 fom the ABA all star game.

It featured Dr. J's famous foul line rim rattler, David Thompson's rock a bye baby cradle dunk and Artis Gilmore dunking 3 basketballs at once. Also Larry Kenon had a few nice throw downs too.

Maybe pretty tame now in 2013 but in 1975-1976 it was unbelievable. As a 15 year old kid I was awestruck at the time.

 

[husky99]

his passing was just nuts

 

[Dogbreath2U]

In my mind, especially given the circumstances, Magic's single handed victory playing point center versus the Sixers was the single greatest performance I've ever seen on a basketball court.

Magic's assists not entertaining? They call it SHOWTIME for a reason.

And as far as point guards go, after Magic, there's Oscar, followed by as whole lot of also rans.

Then again, Pistol Pete had the moves, the imagination, miraculous ball handling skills, and a scoring touch that hasn't been duplicated since. Maybe it was just the length of his career and never being on a championship caliber team, but he doesn't have the cache that Magic and Oscar do.

If I'm building an all time team, I want Russel in the middle, Magic at the point, Pete at the 2 guard, and for entertainment value, Dr J and Chuck to fill out the forward spots.

Rich, Magic playing "point center" and dominating the game was remarkable and I cannot think of another single game performance that matched it. I can't think of anything like that happening since (a guard, albeit a 6'9" one, moving into the center position).

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Rich, Magic playing "point center" and dominating the game was remarkable and I cannot think of another single game performance that matched it. I can't think of anything like that happening since (a guard, albeit a 6'9" one, moving into the center position).

Everytime I hear this type of account, I think of poor Jim Chones, who played 30 minutes in that game, had 11 points and 10 rebounds, but his contributions at center in that game will never be acknowledged because Magic Johnson played center in that game. For about 8 minutes.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Two best players in my mind are
1) Magic
2) Oscar
Seemed to me that when they were on the court most everyone
else was trying to catch up to them.
I am trying to make a distinction here, not sure I can do it.
While they were on the court they were both the best team player and best
individual player on the court. They made everyone else better but at the same time
you knew it was them that were controlling the game.
Michael Jordan & Pat Ewing turned me off of the pro game. The idea of a team
game died when they came into the league. Much more boring. Great invidual
talents, did great things, but they were Jupiter and the rest of the team just revolved around
them like vassal moons.
Don't want to forget the mandatory Oscar stat--one year he averaged a triple double--OMG

Magic has been quoted as saying MJ is on a whole different level than himself. Magic speaks of/ recalls tales of MJ in complete admiration as if he's a little kid dreaming of one day being able to do some of the things he saw MJ do (theres a quote of h basically saying exaxtly that). Magic was great but if its coming from his mouth...you can take Magic. I'll take MJ and Magic would too.