OT Jeff Green

[Scoe]

Two starts he's put up 31 and now 43. He's shown this before, just doesn't do it on a consistent basis. His rep at G'Town was too passive and that's carried over to this point in his career. Him being around the Celts has certainly helped and hopefully it continues.

Well there you go you have to do it on a consistant basis. Hes very good but not top 15. JR Smith would be a star if he could do it on a consistant basis.

 

[tzznandrew]

LeBron is tremendous. Guy does it all, every night.

If you're picking your best all-ever team, LeBron is pick 1. MJ a close second. Maybe Magic after that.

Just ridiculous how much better than everybody else on the court he is, and he doesn't even seem to have reached his ceiling.

I'll take the bait.

I've been saying LeBron is great for a long time. Far better than Kobe, even at Kobe's peak.

Yet you've forgotten the greatness of Jordan to say that he's already better than him. He's not, yet. Statistically, he's on par for a couple of years. He needs to keep doing it and win more titles, and then we can talk. I do think it is a possibility.

Career-wise, he's not that close. Peak? If you had to pick one player to win one game, I still go MJ, but LeBron is up there.

 

[UChusky916]

Jeff Green being a top 15 player is one of the more laughable things I've read on here, and that's saying something.

How can he be a top 15 player if he hasn't even been on the All-Star team?

Typical celtic fan overreation.
Just like how Rondo is the best PG in the NBA

 

[Scoe]

I'll take the bait.

I've been saying LeBron is great for a long time. Far better than Kobe, even at Kobe's peak.

Yet you've forgotten the greatness of Jordan to say that he's already better than him. He's not, yet. Statistically, he's on par for a couple of years. He needs to keep doing it and win more titles, and then we can talk. I do think it is a possibility.

Career-wise, he's not that close. Peak? If you had to pick one player to win one game, I still go MJ, but LeBron is up there.

Well said

 

[UConn990411]

Typical celtic fan overreation.
Just like how Rondo is the best PG in the NBA

Yes, because Celtics fans are the only ones who overrate their players...

Comments like that always make me laugh.

(The Green comment was insane, but Rondo is a top 3-4 point guard in the NBA.)

 

[Deepster]

LeBron is tremendous. Guy does it all, every night.

If you're picking your best all-ever team, LeBron is pick 1. MJ a close second. Maybe Magic after that.

Just ridiculous how much better than everybody else on the court he is, and he doesn't even seem to have reached his ceiling.

Kind of ironic that this post came from someone named "Perspective".

He has one ring and really no rivals to steal rings away for the near future. Spurs and C's are old. Lakers seem to be on the downside of the Kobe run. OKC still doesn't appear to have the entire package. Let's take a step back and take a deep breath before we throw the G.O.A.T. at him.

 

[Perspective]

This years Celts team is a heck of a lot more dangerous even without Rondo just because of what Green can do to Lebron.

No ! Great point.

He held him to 37 points on 55% shooting, 7 boards, 12 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocked shots.

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[Perspective]

He has one ring and really no rivals to steal rings away for the near future.

Wow. So much hate. Already prepping the argument that the guy won "easy" titles.

You're right. Who can compare to Jordan beating "I ain't got no rings" Mailman Malone? That Jazz team was heeeeeelacious!

Chamberlain gets brought up in GOAT conversations and he didn't win but what? 1?
Oscar Robertson?

Rings are nice, but let's not confuse the issue.

If LeBron retired after this season, he'd already be ahead of Kobe (5 rings?) Bryant.

 

[UChusky916]

Yes, because Celtics fans are the only ones who overrate their players...

Comments like that always make me laugh.

(The Green comment was insane, but Rondo is a top 3-4 point guard in the NBA.)

Celtic fans are the worst homers, bar none.

And I don't understand how you can consider Rondo a top5 PG in the NBA when he can't event hit a jump shot to save his life.

1)Paul
2)Rose
3)Parker
4)Irving
5)Westbrook
6)Rondo

Look how good the Celtics are doing without Rondo. He's overrated.

If you put Rondo on a team there's no way he would produce the assist numbers as well as he does on the Celtics. That's how you measure greatness.

 

[James]

This is all hypothetical since neither are healthy, but if they had a healthy kg last night they win. Too many minutes to Wilcox/bass, niether good defensively.
Although the Jeff green comment was out of line, nights like last make you wonder why he isn't a star. Very inconsistent.

I think the spurs are really good with a healthy Parker. Could be heats kryptonite. a bunch of defenders to throw at wade(nobody is stopping 6, just can't let get others too involved) coupled with shot blocking/interior play.

 

[James]

Westbrook is a 2 guard masquerading as a 1. and rose hasnt played in a year who knows how hell adjust

 

[tzznandrew]

Wow. So much hate. Already prepping the argument that the guy won "easy" titles.

You're right. Who can compare to Jordan beating "I ain't got no rings" Mailman Malone? That Jazz team was heeeeeelacious!

Chamberlain gets brought up in GOAT conversations and he didn't win but what? 1?
Oscar Robertson?

Rings are nice, but let's not confuse the issue.

If LeBron retired after this season, he'd already be ahead of Kobe (5 rings?) Bryant.

Two different issues at hand, and it's important to distinguish.

Best player at his/her peak ("Who would you want for 1-3 seasons?")
It's in this that Kobe falls back a lot. Bird and LeBron move up a ton. Jordan wins this, but there are a lot of other issues.

Best career ("Who would you want for the duration of their career?")
This is where injuries hurt players like Bird, and where, if LeBron retired today he'd hurt himself and be behind Kobe.

Those are two separate questions.

Players who I think are really good for the first question, but can't really be best in the career conversation: Bird, Baylor, Robertson, Chamberlain, to name a few. Their peaks are just ridiculous. Chamberlain played well for a while, but he had a few just ridiculous years. Rings matter here in that you want someone who can win, but the number isn't necessarily important. I give Baylor a pass here, as he couldn't, himself, beat the Celtics powerhouse teams. I'd say the last three years of LeBron is comparable to anything anyone else has done, and he's right behind Jordan on the "Peak" list.

Career-wise, LeBron's got a ways to go.

As for Malone. The Malone-Stockton teams were really good, as were the Barkley Phoenix teams. Malone is ringless because of Jordan. He would have won a series had Jordan stayed retired. Jordan didn't have a player his caliber to compete against for the bulk of his career, but he had individual players. I mean, he beat Magic in the Finals. He beat the Drexler team that won a title two years prior. He knocked off the Bad Boy Pistons team. He consistently beat the Knicks--a team that went to the Finals the year after he retired both times. The Payton-Kemp Sonics were damn good too.

LeBron got beat by the Duncan-Paker-Ginobili Spurs, and he got beat by the Nowitski-Mavs. The first time his team was overmatched, the second he choked. He's had to go through the end of the Pistons-run, the Pierce-Garnett-Allen Celtics, and some other decent teams.

And, to be fair, he beat Durant in the Finals--a player we will also be talking about as an All-Time great in 20 years. But if he is ringless because of LeBron, in 15 years someone will probably call him "I ain't got no rings" Kevin Durant to try to minimize LeBron's accomplishments when the next big thing is coming along.

 

[Scoe]

Wow. So much hate. Already prepping the argument that the guy won "easy" titles.

You're right. Who can compare to Jordan beating "I ain't got no rings" Mailman Malone? That Jazz team was heeeeeelacious!

Chamberlain gets brought up in GOAT conversations and he didn't win but what? 1?
Oscar Robertson?

Rings are nice, but let's not confuse the issue.

If LeBron retired after this season, he'd already be ahead of Kobe (5 rings?) Bryant.

MJ has 6 with his original team and the level of competition was greater in the 80s and 90s. Lebron is top 10 alltime but he is not GOAT yet hold off on that.

 

[UConn990411]

Celtic fans are the worst homers, bar none.

And I don't understand how you can consider Rondo a top5 PG in the NBA when he can't event hit a jump shot to save his life.

1)Paul
2)Rose
3)Parker
4)Irving
5)Westbrook
6)Rondo

Look how good the Celtics are doing without Rondo. He's overrated.

If you put Rondo on a team there's no way he would produce the assist numbers as well as he does on the Celtics. That's how you measure greatness.

LOL, this entire post is foolishness. I'll address each point individually.

(1) Every fan base is filled with duck*ing homers. This isn't even worth discussing.

(2) After Paul and (a healthy) Rose, you can make pretty much put Parker, Westbrook and Rondo in any order. All have either won or been to a championship, and they're all in their primes right now.

I love Irving as much as anyone, but he hasn't even proven he can stay healthy yet. You can't rank him ahead of those three yet.

(For the guy who said Westbrook's not a point guard, you're wrong. He's a scoring point guard like Rose, but a point guard nonetheless. The guy is averaging 7 apg for his career.)

(3) I think that some players (Terry, Lee, Green) are more effective without Rondo. But the Celtics' upside with Rondo (ECF with an outside shot against the Heat) is a whole lot higher than their upside without Rondo (ECF where they'd get their doors blown off by the Heat).

Like Van Gundy has said, the notion that the Celtics are a better team without Rondo is "preposterous."

(4) That's how you measure greatness? Uh, okay.

His assist numbers don't fall off much anytime he's played without Pierce and KG.

 

[UConn990411]

MJ has 6 with his original team and the level of competition was greater in the 80s and 90s. Lebron is top 10 alltime but he is not GOAT yet hold off on that.

The level of competition is a heck of a lot better now than it was in Jordan's peak years. It's not too far off from the 80s, either.

LeBron still has a shot at catching Jordan, but this is so far away from being a debate that it's not worth having at the moment.

(And did someone really mention Wilt as the GOAT? He wasn't even the best player during his generation - Russell was.)

 

[tzznandrew]

The level of competition is a heck of a lot better now than it was in Jordan's peak years. It's not too far off from the 80s, either.

LeBron still has a shot at catching Jordan, but this is so far away from being a debate that it's not worth having at the moment.

(And did someone really mention Wilt as the GOAT? He wasn't even the best player during his generation - Russell was.)

People underplay how good the talent is now. The 90s had some very good teams in the West (Phoenix, Portland for a time, Seattle, Utah, San Antonion, Houston), but the East was garbage after Chicago, New York in the early-90s, and a short window where Shaq played in Orlando and Penny was healthy.

Right now, most of the teams have really really good players on them. That wasn't necessarily the case in the 90s.

That said, you are right. Not a debate at the moment, but it could be.

 

[aceboon]

The East is pretty garbage outside of Miami right now, Miami is obviously so far ahead of the pack in terms of talent but there is nothing impressive about NYK, Bos, Indiana, NJ, etc.

People underplay how good the talent is now. The 90s had some very good teams in the West (Phoenix, Portland for a time, Seattle, Utah, San Antonion, Houston), but the East was garbage after Chicago, New York in the early-90s, and a short window where Shaq played in Orlando and Penny was healthy.

Right now, most of the teams have really really good players on them. That wasn't necessarily the case in the 90s.

That said, you are right. Not a debate at the moment, but it could be.

 

[tzznandrew]

The East is pretty garbage outside of Miami right now, Miami is obviously so far ahead of the pack in terms of talent but there is nothing impressive about NYK, Bos, Indiana, NJ, etc.

Yeah, the East does suck right now. The West is much deeper now than it was then, and there are a lot of pretty good players in the East, on teams that just don't seem to have "it."

I would suggest, though, that the overall talent level of the league is as high as its been since right before expansion.

 

[Waquoit]

Wow. So much hate. Already prepping the argument that the guy won "easy" titles.

The above comment was in reply to this: "He has one ring and really no rivals to steal rings away for the near future."

Here's my latest pet peeve, using the word "hate" in reply to a fair comment. For me, the use of "hate" in a similar context means you've lost the debate.

 

[Scoe]

The level of competition is a heck of a lot better now than it was in Jordan's peak years. It's not too far off from the 80s, either.

LeBron still has a shot at catching Jordan, but this is so far away from being a debate that it's not worth having at the moment.

(And did someone really mention Wilt as the GOAT? He wasn't even the best player during his generation - Russell was.)

You can compare Lebron to MJ but you cannot put him above MJ yet, that would be disrespectful and using a lack of research. You can go any which way in this argument. Today you have a lot of young stars in the 90s you had young stars, and guys from the golden ages.

90s
young stars- Kobe, Duncan, KG, AI, Ray, Kidd, Shaq, Sprewell, Payton, Kemp, Hill, Penny, Mourning

golden age guys- MJ, Malone, Stockton, Robinson, Hakeem, Drexler, Ewing, Tim Hardaway (drafted in late 80s), Rodman, Reggie

and thats just to name a few, the NBA is not what it was in the 90s, its getting there though

 

[Scoe]

The level of competition is a heck of a lot better now than it was in Jordan's peak years. It's not too far off from the 80s, either.

LeBron still has a shot at catching Jordan, but this is so far away from being a debate that it's not worth having at the moment.

(And did someone really mention Wilt as the GOAT? He wasn't even the best player during his generation - Russell was.)

and I never mentioned Wilt as the GOAT

 

[Kitaman]

Lebron is not a freak, but a great basketball player with extraordinary skills. I hope he is not labeled a freak as he ages, as he is just built 'better' than everyone else.

As for comparisons, I agree its too early. Enjoy him while he is playing, as it may be a generation or two to be able to witness anything or anyone similar.