OT: Olympics: U.S. Women’s Soccer

[Plebe]

During the Bronze Medal game (USA vs. Australia), there was a detailed discussion between the announcers on why the team didn't get younger after winning the 2019 World Cup. I thought it was persuasive, and a lot less conspiratorial than what you are suggesting.

They acknowledged that age was a problem for the team, particularly on the front line. But they noted several factors accounting for the decision to go with older players in this Olympics:

1. The same team, with forwards who were already old by soccer standards, had won the 2019 World Cup in convincing fashion, so there was no indication then that they were over the hill.
2. When the new coach took over immediately after that tournament, he and everyone expected that the Olympics would be in 2020 rather than 2021, leaving him with a very short time to prepare -- probably too little time to select and practice with a drastically overhauled roster.
3. When the Olympics were postponed, it was done only a few months before the event was scheduled to take place. This again created a situation where there would be too little time to overhaul the roster for the 2021 games.

The implication is that if the coach had known in 2019 that the Olympics were two years away, he would have realized that he needed some younger forwards on his roster and would probably have selected and trained the roster differently.

Having said that, the fact that Rapinoe and Lloyd were responsible for all the scoring in the Bronze Medal game suggests that those two players in particular were far from "old timers". Both of Rapinoe's goals demonstrated a very high offensive skill level. I wonder if any younger player would have been able to score those goals.

Of greater concern is the defensive side (giving up 3 goals to both Sweden and Australia, and 2 goals to The Netherlands), where age is not a particular problem. The back end of the formation needs improvement also, though not necessarily by getting younger.

Lots of great points here.

A certain layer of fans seem to engage in a reflexive form of ageism, whereby they start calling for players to be set out to pasture as soon as they reach a certain age. Some have even gone so far as to advocate for "term limits". We've seen it in basketball as well, with some fans claiming Taurasi and Bird are just too old for the national team.

I also agree that the defensive lapses were more concerning than the offensive struggles. Dahlkemper is regarded as one of the better defenders in the world, but she had a horrible tournament. O'Hara I thought was dreadful as well, I can't even count all the times I saw her lose the ball or give it away (one such play led directly to the late goal by Australia in the bronze medal game).

Losing Alyssa Naeher to injury early in the Canada game was a major blow. Adrianna Franch has supposedly been great in the NWSL but every time I've seen her play on the national team she has looked terribly unsteady and unreliable to me.

 

[Vowelguy]

WhAt evidence is there that it wasn’t ?

 

[Vowelguy]

And yet she’s gotten more playing time than 4 others. I guess they’re not top 75 ?

 

[Bama fan]

You say it is not ageism, and then call them "dinosaurs"? I think you displayed your bias quite openly. You have every right to think that way, but you cannot then credibly deny it.

 

[LoboDays]

This was an old team. No one denies it. But if you are arguing that some players should have been replaced, give us some names of the younger replacements so we have something to discuss. You can have your opinion but without anything to support it, the hollowness echos.

 

[stamfordhusky]

This was an old team. No one denies it. But if you are arguing that some players should have been replaced, give us some names of the younger replacements so we have something to discuss. You can have your opinion but without anything to support it, the hollowness echos.

At most there were one or two young players who had a case for being on the team in the run-up to the Olympics. What some have forgotten is that this team, with all the veteran players, had gone 25-0-1 in all games between the World Cup and the Olympics. Had beaten Sweden, Netherlands, Brazil, France, England, Canada (2), and Japan - and also tied Sweden. Nothing terribly wrong that would cause them to bring in young players who hadn't earned a spot just so the roster would be younger.

 

[stamfordhusky]

WhAt evidence is there that it wasn’t ?

No evidence.

 

[Waquoit]

At most there were one or two young players who had a case for being on the team in the run-up to the Olympics. What some have forgotten is that this team, with all the veteran players, had gone 25-0-1 in all games between the World Cup and the Olympics. Had beaten Sweden, Netherlands, Brazil, France, England, Canada (2), and Japan - and also tied Sweden.

This happens among UConn women's fans as well. They become enamored with JV game results. But first game for real, they get crushed. Against the varsity their play featured "disinterest in supporting runs" and "defensive lapses" as well as an "inability to control the pace". That's what happens when you're old and slow. Bottom line, they stunk out the joint in Tokyo. This team needs to be blown up and started from scratch.

 

[JoePgh]

This happens among UConn women's fans as well. They become enamored with JV game results. But first game for real, they get crushed. Against the varsity their play featured "disinterest in supporting runs" and "defensive lapses" as well as an "inability to control the pace". That's what happens when you're old and slow. Bottom line, they stunk out the joint in Tokyo. This team needs to be blown up and started from scratch.

If you are going to take this position, how about replying specifically to what was said in the posts that you disagree with? As stamfordhusky noted, the USA team's record prior to the Olympics included a win and a tie against Sweden, and two victories against Canada -- the two teams that beat them in Tokyo. Are those opponents the "JV"? What about the 2019 World Cup itself -- was that a JV tournament?

And about the defensive lapses, which certainly existed in the Olympics, can they reasonably be attributed to age? Dahlkemper is 28 or thereabouts, and Tierna Davidson (who committed the penalty that caused Canada to score its only goal) is 22. Are they old and slow?

And what about the effect of the unexpected Olympic postponement (from 2020 to 2021) on the roster composition? (See my previous post.) Do you care to respond to that?

 

[Waquoit]

If you are going to take this position, how about replying specifically to what was said in the posts that you disagree with? As stamfordhusky noted, the USA team's record prior to the Olympics included a win and a tie against Sweden, and two victories against Canada -- the two teams that beat them in Tokyo. Are those opponents the "JV"? What about the 2019 World Cup itself -- was that a JV tournament?

And about the defensive lapses, which certainly existed in the Olympics, can they reasonably be attributed to age? Dahlkemper is 28 or thereabouts, and Tierna Davidson (who committed the penalty that caused Canada to score its only goal) is 22. Are they old and slow?

And what about the effect of the unexpected Olympic postponement (from 2020 to 2021) on the roster composition? (See my previous post.) Do you care to respond to that?

I went to see them play Mexico in the Rent. That was the JV. And so were all these other games that aren't in the WC or Olympics, tbh. And your postponement effect argument refutes everyone here that says the USA had the best available squad.

I have a question for you. You mention defensive lapses with no mention of the offensive lapses. No mention of the shocking lack of goals. Can that be blamed on the age and pace of the attackers?

 

[stamfordhusky]

I went to see them play Mexico in the Rent. That was the JV. And so were all these other games that aren't in the WC or Olympics, tbh. And your postponement effect argument refutes everyone here that says the USA had the best available squad.

I have a question for you. You mention defensive lapses with no mention of the offensive lapses. No mention of the shocking lack of goals. Can that be blamed on the age and pace of the attackers?

So playing virtually every top team in the world - some multiple times - between the World Cup and Olympics constitutes playing the JV??? Hard to have an intelligent discussion after hearing that. Who else should they have played? And since they went undefeated against all of those teams, how much better should they have played?

I am way more than a casual follower of women's soccer, and I can think of a grand total of one younger player who might have helped this team. All of the other under-25's will help in a few years, but none were ready to help now - as they demonstrated in National Team camps and Friendlies. There is absolutely no evidence and very few honest opinions that replacing the older players would have done anything other than to make this team worse.

 

[stamfordhusky]

One thing that few people have focused on is that the U.S. has done poorly in the U-17 and U-20 women's world cups over the past eight years. In total the two teams have achieved one 4th place finish collectively. Nothing better. Although not conclusive, that doesn't give one a reason to think the talent pool for players now aged 24-28 is particularly strong.

 

[Vowelguy]

One thing that few people have focused on is that the U.S. has done poorly in the U-17 and U-20 women's world cups over the past eight years. In total the two teams have achieved one 4th place finish collectively. Nothing better. Although not conclusive, that doesn't give one a reason to think the talent pool for players now aged 24-28 is particularly strong.

A good point but Canada Sweden and Australia also haven’t finished top 4 in the U20 in the past decade. (Nor Neth or Bra)

 

[JoePgh]

I have a question for you. You mention defensive lapses with no mention of the offensive lapses. No mention of the shocking lack of goals. Can that be blamed on the age and pace of the attackers?

I mentioned defensive lapses because you did, and you attributed it to "old and slow". When I and others pointed out that the back line on Team USA 2021 was not old (don't know about slow), you now shift ground to offensive lapses.

OK, so let's talk about that. Team USA scored 5 goals against New Zealand and 4 against Australia (in the Bronze Medal game) and The Netherlands. They failed to score goals against Sweden, Canada, and in the first Australia game. We can discount the first Australia game (especially after the Bronze Medal result) because neither team was really trying to win that game -- both were assured of getting into the elimination rounds regardless of the score.

That leaves Sweden and Canada as the two teams against which Team USA failed to score. Those just happen to be the two teams that played for the Gold Medal. Those are good teams with good defenses (better than Team USA's) -- they only managed to score one goal against each other in the Gold Medal game (and Canada's goal against Sweden was on a penalty kick, just like their goal against the USA), so their offense against the same opponent wasn't much better than Team USA's. That doesn't suggest that Team USA was completely outclassed on offense by anyone in Tokyo.

It certainly doesn't support "stunk up the joint", "need to be blown up and started from scratch", and other similar language in your previous posts.

 

[JoePgh]

I see that Carli Lloyd announced her retirement today. That means the USA front line will get younger in future competitions, whether it wants to or not.

 

[Plebe]

I see that Carli Lloyd announced her retirement today. That means the USA front line will get younger in future competitions, whether it wants to or not.

She must have read the Boneyard and found out she's a "dinosaur" who can't even keep up with high school players anymore.

Seriously, Carli had an amazing career and she was a late bloomer. She was named the best player in the world at ages 33 and 34, and the competition wasn't even that close. She scored a hat trick in the first 17 minutes of the 2015 World Cup final against Japan.

U.S. Women’s National Team Legend Carli Lloyd Announces Retirement

Lloyd Will End Historic USWNT Career Over Four Fall Friendly Matches and Will Play Remainder of NWSL Season with NJ/NY Gotham FC

www.ussoccer.com

 

[meyers7]

She must have read the Boneyard and found out she's a "dinosaur" who can't even keep up with high school players anymore.

Seriously, Carli had an amazing career and she was a late bloomer. She was named the best player in the world at ages 33 and 34, and the competition wasn't even that close. She scored a hat trick in the first 17 minutes of the 2015 World Cup final against Japan.

U.S. Women’s National Team Legend Carli Lloyd Announces Retirement

Lloyd Will End Historic USWNT Career Over Four Fall Friendly Matches and Will Play Remainder of NWSL Season with NJ/NY Gotham FC

www.ussoccer.com

Great NT career. And time to move on.

 

[Bama fan]

Great NT career. And time to move on.

Maybe she can learn to work the saxophone , and play just what she feels.

 

[eebmg]

cute story on goalkeeper Alyssa Naeher

Alyssa Naeher has reached soccer's pinnacle by appearing in the 2019 World Cup and 2020 Tokyo Olympics for Team USA, but she didn't fulfill her biggest childhood dreams in doing so. The 33-year-old goalkeeper told the Just Women's Sports podcast she originally wanted to play basketball for coach Geno Auriemma at the University of Connecticut.

"Basketball was my first love...that's what I thought I would do with my life," Naeher said. "I prayed every morning when I was a kid, my parents can attest to it, of wanting to make the WNBA, I wanted to be a professional basketball player. I wanted to go to UConn."


USWNT goalkeeper Alyssa Naeher says basketball was her 'first love,' wanted to play at UConn as a kid - CBSSports.com

 

[SimpleDawg]

Did anyone see the game last Tuesday? Sophia Smith and Catarina Macario was really good. This seems to be a glimpse into the lineup for 2023..... I really like this lineup.

 

[meyers7]

Did anyone see the game last Tuesday? Sophia Smith and Catarina Macario was really good. This seems to be a glimpse into the lineup for 2023..... I really like this lineup.

View attachment 69893

Hmmm. I'm glad to see some younger players getting to play. However, Dunn is actually 2 years younger than Krueger (Short). Maybe Krueger can fill the RB spot, O'Hara is getting older. Sonnett is fine as a squad player.

The MF still has Horan (27), Sam Mewis (28) and Ertz (29). Gonna be hard to break the starting lineup there. But that's some really good depth.

Up top we may be a little short right now. With Lloyd, Rapinoe ageing out, Press taking a break. Heath is 33 also. Have to find some more talent somewhere beyond Pugh, Morgan, Smith and Williams.

 

[ucbart]

Hmmm. I'm glad to see some younger players getting to play. However, Dunn is actually 2 years younger than Krueger (Short). Maybe Krueger can fill the RB spot, O'Hara is getting older. Sonnett is fine as a squad player.

The MF still has Horan (27), Sam Mewis (28) and Ertz (29). Gonna be hard to break the starting lineup there. But that's some really good depth.

Up top we may be a little short right now. With Lloyd, Rapinoe ageing out, Press taking a break. Heath is 33 also. Have to find some more talent somewhere beyond Pugh, Morgan, Smith and Williams.

To me, Macario is a natural striker and should play as such. Her, Sophia Smith, and Williams/Pugh is a formidable front line. They have speed, skill, and creativity.

As for the back, right back is a real conundrum and I thought Dunn was terrible in the Olympics. The fact that she can play out of position though, in the WC and the Olympics, shows an insane level of skill. Dunn is a forward in every other universe. We are fine at center back, but outside back is tough. Also, at what point does Ertz have a baby-because I think the best backup at her position...is Dunn.

 

[JordyG]

Maybe she can learn to work the saxophone , and play just what she feels.

I'm with the drink scotch whiskey all night long part.

 

[Bama fan]

I'm with the drink scotch whiskey all night long part.

As long as you stay from behind the wheel, my friend.