Officiating in the Post-Season

[housekeys]

If officials called games close some of your favorite players would foul out in the first half. As players get bigger and stronger the amount of physical play is going to increase. I have noticed HS officials are absolutely horrible and that has to impact how players "learn" to play for college. Play fast on offense and the defense can't play too physical, stand around and you give the slow big person the advantage.

I doubt the best coaches will let their best players foul out. If they do, I bet you that will be the last game they will foul out. I also bet they will coach their players differently.

You need to start somewhere to clean up the game, as it has gotten out of hand. You mention HS officials. As fans, players, announcers, coaches, and officials, we have been indoctrinated, for the past couple of generations, on what is the correct way to play, call and even watch the game. Time to take a step back and try something outside the box, maybe. I do not know the answer, but there are people that do.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I was shocked how physical the play was. I've always thought of the PAC as a more finesse style of basketball, more pretty and free flowing. Maybe I've just been wrong all along. I certainly was this season. It was brutal at times.

That stereotype hasn't been true for a LONG time. Arizona St. under CTT probably started it, but many other conference teams have followed suit for probably somewhere between 5-10 years.

 

[housekeys]

Doubtful. There will always be the same number of complaints and the same amount of whining. Some time in the future AI will call each game and 1/2 the fans will complain the AI has been hacked.

I generally agree with what you are saying, except there is a difference when the complaints are about whether it was a touch foul on a shot, instead of whether it is a flagrant 1 or 2. The latter will become more and more common if something is not done.

 

[ThisJustIn]

You want officiating to be more consistent? Show them the money.

As we know, the NCAA has no "control" over officials until the NCAA tournament. Until then, it's the conferences.

The NCAA Rules Committee (Man, it was a pain to try and track down the members: COMMITTEE SELECTION LINKS: A JSP APPLICATION) id's points of emphasis, changes, etc. They're decided on and then sent out to the conferences/teams via PDFS/Links/Videos and carrier pigeons.

Officials review the changes. Remember, they're independent contractors, paying a hunk of taxes, paying for their insurance, and working a gig that keeps them away from home and family for several months. They're not paid for any time outside the games for which they're contracted.

If they're lucky, they're on a roster of a pro-active conference supervisor who PAYS THEM to come to a professional development session during which questions are asked, implementation challenges are reviewed etc. Of course, the trick is these are not "intellectual" changes. They are changes that, more often than not, impact how you call a live game. So, how does one train THAT?

I have some thoughts. If anyone has encountered the word "scalability" you know what's coming next.

1) The NCAA hires Regional Rule Trainers. They're incredibly skilled deliverers of professional development. They can talk "what ifs" and they can model. AND they're REALLY good at navigating politics. OMG THE POLITICS!!!

Their job is, as a cohort, make sure they're consistent in their messaging and expectations of rules/officials.
They also:
a) meet with their regional conference supervisors (it would be cool if it were DI, 2 & 3) 3 times a years to introduce, problem solve, discuss and implement rule changes. Make sure the SUPERVISORS are consistent in their messaging and expectations of rules/officials ('cause every coordinator has their own opinions on how a game should be reffed AND have coaches with their own opinions)

b) They run and/or hire great facilitators (paid) to host Refereeing Camps/Trainings that officials are PAID to attend (travel/food/housing) I'd start smallish - a camp of "senior" officials mixed with "up and comers" that were nominated by Conference Supervisors or "senior" officials. These sessions include basketball players willing to be referee-guinea pigs.

CONFERENCES NEED TO PONY UP!!
When I spoke with Barb Jacobs back in the day, she said she was given a budget, out of which she was expected to pay herself, hire officials (travel/food/housing) as well as in-game/post game reviewers. Would love to know what the top conferences are doing these days, 'cause you know the mid-majors and such are doing a FRACTION of that.

So, beyond hiring officials for games (travel/housing/food) and post-game reviews, conferences need to
i. Pay officials for conference focused training sessions: Professional Development, one-on-one mentoring, workshops with coaches and players, etc
ii. Hire and train and PAY an enough experienced eyes to get out to games and do observations/reports and feedback.
iii. Have trainings to build a professional relationship between observers and officials - discuss feedback processes etc.
iiii. Have on going meetings with the observes to discuss what they're seeing, questions that have come up etc. Share that work with officials and coaches.

Oh, there's so much more... lol.

All this is a logistical nightmare and would cost a ton of $$$. BUT, it would increase the trained pool of officials.

That being said, I agree with Tom. Folks are NEVER going to stop complaining about officials. BUT, boy I would love there to be "So you want to be an official" sessions for fans. snrtle

Last note: When I was writing about the game, there was a woman who took over as the NCAA Senior Official Supervisor person. Lots of energy, lots of ideas, lots of vision.

They left. And I'm SURE it was because people TALK about wanting to change, but personalities and egos (and logistics and time and money) get in the way.

Also, we know referees are treated with contempt and derision by fans, coaches and (following their example) players. Why anyone would WANT to be a referee is beyond me. So, what does that say about the folks who stick around?

 

[UConnCat]

Because I started the thread, I'll respond.

I don't view my post as complaining about the officials -- I rarely post about officiating -- but more bemused at how an official can watch a play that obviously violates a rule of the game and not blow the whistle. I understand officials may be underpaid, but does that mean that players, coaches and fans should not expect the officials who've chosen this profession to enforce the rules of the game? I don't understand why that is too much to ask.

I've worked in two professions: in one I was over-paid and in the other I was underpaid and sometimes on the receiving end of complaints and abuse that were unwarranted. In both professions, I was trained, licensed and held to a standard of practice. If I didn't meet the standard of practice, I heard about it and it didn't matter how much I was paid.

So, I may still on occasion post about an official's obvious failure to enforce a rule of the game.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

You want officiating to be more consistent? Show them the money.

As we know, the NCAA has no "control" over officials until the NCAA tournament. Until then, it's the conferences.

The NCAA Rules Committee (Man, it was a pain to try and track down the members: COMMITTEE SELECTION LINKS: A JSP APPLICATION) id's points of emphasis, changes, etc. They're decided on and then sent out to the conferences/teams via PDFS/Links/Videos and carrier pigeons.

FWIW - each edition of the rule book includes the committee at the time the book was issued. In the current NCAA rule book, some of the terms expired in 2023. All the rest are per your list.

Back in the day, Barbara Jacobs autographed our NCAA Rule Book, she was the editor or some such position. I guess she remembered us, because as we were walking out of the arena one day she definitely told us something that fans would not normally hear about a specific play and the official that messed up.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Which conference has the best officials? Just wondering cuz I am not going to miss the Pac-12 refs next season. ;-)

None, really, per se. The conferences share officials, the "best" of whom work 6 or even 7 days a week all over the country.

The PAC is slightly different, the vast majority of officials don't work the other Power 5 conferences, though a few do. Historically, the Big 12 shared the most PAC officials, but a few also did, for example the B1G (Lisa Jones I think, Tiffany Bird is another). Mike Price used to work the SEC, probably not anymore. They work the other western conferences, such as Big West, WCC, Mountain West, Big Sky, etc.

Of course, the officials that work primarily the other four conferences (actually, as of a few years ago, most worked around 3 of them in a season) also work a selection of smaller conferences, as well. For the 2 years I "studied it", probably 7 - 10 years ago, Cameron Inouye worked the most games, virtually almost everyday. For a couple years, she also worked a weekend or 2 in the PAC, as did Roy Gulbeyan another supposedly good Eastern referee.

The PAC had some horrible refs, my least favorite were Tyler Trimble and Kyle Bacon (another who also works or worked a bit in the B1G). Among the best, Lisa Jones and Brenda Pantoja. I could never make up my mind about Missy Barlow.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I watched more PAC basketball this season than ever before, especially the tournament because they had so many good teams going at it. I was shocked how physical the play was. I've always thought of the PAC as a more finesse style of basketball, more pretty and free flowing. Maybe I've just been wrong all along. I certainly was this season. It was brutal at times.

I admit to being disappointed. I'm an SEC fan by virtue of my Vandy affiliation, and I see that type of basketball constantly. Can't say I really enjoy the style of play, but it seems to be spreading in P6 conferences. Luckily, I'm a secondary fan of some mid-major programs where the style of play is much less physical. I like that.

Just like every conference, the referees tended to call games similarly. Most conferences have a "style". For the PAC, a lot of physical play was tolerated in the post - but if you touched a shooters arm gently, expect a foul. Very strange. Also very tolerant of scrums for the ball, but not so much of touch fouls. In the end, yes, physical, but pretty consistent.

 

[jake0414]

None, really, per se. The conferences share officials, the "best" of whom work 6 or even 7 days a week all over the country.

The PAC is slightly different, the vast majority of officials don't work the other Power 5 conferences, though a few do. Historically, the Big 12 shared the most PAC officials, but a few also did, for example the B1G (Lisa Jones I think, Tiffany Bird is another). Mike Price used to work the SEC, probably not anymore. They work the other western conferences, such as Big West, WCC, Mountain West, Big Sky, etc.

Of course, the officials that work primarily the other four conferences (actually, as of a few years ago, most worked around 3 of them in a season) also work a selection of smaller conferences, as well. For the 2 years I "studied it", probably 7 - 10 years ago, Cameron Inouye worked the most games, virtually almost everyday. For a couple years, she also worked a weekend or 2 in the PAC, as did Roy Gulbeyan another supposedly good Eastern referee.

The PAC had some horrible refs, my least favorite were Tyler Trimble and Kyle Bacon (another who also works or worked a bit in the B1G). Among the best, Lisa Jones and Brenda Pantoja. I could never make up my mind about Missy Barlow.

Agree with your opinion of PAC refs. I find Lisa Jones and Brenda Pantoja among the best. I liked Cameron Inouye as well but haven’t seen her at PAC-12 games the last couple of seasons. I think Inouye lives in the San Gabriel Valley in So Cal. Missy Barlow used to strike fear into many school’s fans but she seems to have improved recently. Mike Price and Alecia Ann Murray call games pretty balanced as well. I think Benny Luna, Kyle Bacon and Tyler Trimble are among the worst. They call fouls on the slightest contact (or perceived contact) and disrupt game flow. Infini Robinson and Tiffany Bird also on my not favorite list.

One indication of who the conferences views as its top referees can be gleaned from who worked the PAC-12 tournament championship game: Lisa Jones, Brenda Pantoja and Michol Murray.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Agree with your opinion of PAC refs. I find Lisa Jones and Brenda Pantoja among the best. I liked Cameron Inouye as well but haven’t seen her at PAC-12 games the last couple of seasons. I think Inouye lives in the San Gabriel Valley in So Cal. Missy Barlow used to strike fear into many school’s fans but she seems to have improved recently. Mike Price and Alecia Ann Murray call games pretty balanced as well. I think Benny Luna, Kyle Bacon and Tyler Trimble are among the worst. They call fouls on the slightest contact (or perceived contact) and disrupt game flow. Infini Robinson and Tiffany Bird also on my not favorite list.

One indication of who the conferences views as its top referees can be gleaned from who worked the PAC-12 tournament championship game: Lisa Jones, Brenda Pantoja and Michol Murray.

Inouye hasn't done the PAC recently. At one time she was married? to Bryan Enterline and based in the mid-west. Of course things change, but I tend to associate her with games in the mid-west.

Yeah, Benny Luna isn't a favorite, but I really have no particular feelings about the others you mention. Bob Schofield is from Tucson so he always gets greetings from some fans. He doesn't do a lot of our games, but almost always has done at least one of the 2 pre-season, and others from time to time.

 

[jake0414]

Inouye hasn't done the PAC recently. At one time she was married? to Bryan Enterline and based in the mid-west. Of course things change, but I tend to associate her with games in the mid-west.

Yeah, Benny Luna isn't a favorite, but I really have no particular feelings about the others you mention. Bob Schofield is from Tucson so he always gets greetings from some fans. He doesn't do a lot of our games, but almost always has done at least one of the 2 pre-season, and others from time to time.

Aren’t Lisa Jones and Brenda Pantoja also Arizona or ASU grads?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Aren’t Lisa Jones and Brenda Pantoja also Arizona or ASU grads?

Pantoja was a teammate of Adia's at Arizona and is not allowed to ref Arizona games.

Jones went to ASU and worked for the fire department in Phoenix up until fairly recently, I think. Adia mentioned her as one of the best refs in the league on her radio show.

 

[Matthew1589]

I'd like to see officials be required to do a post game and answer any questions reporters may have. Often there wouldn't be any questions, but I've seen some games where they should be made to answer for their calls or no-calls.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I'd like to see officials be required to do a post game and answer any questions reporters may have. Often there wouldn't be any questions, but I've seen some games where they should be made to answer for their calls or no-calls.

That's an interesting idea. Sometimes the head of officials for a conference issues a statement, but generally speaking there is a lack of accountability.

 

[Vowelguy]

I'd like to see officials be required to do a post game and answer any questions reporters may have. Often there wouldn't be any questions, but I've seen some games where they should be made to answer for their calls or no-calls.

I’m gonna disagree. It’s already a thankless job and they get abused by fans. To then have to get grilled by reporters?

I’m a big believer in $$. It will draw more people in and increase competition, which will allow the better refs to rise to the top. Also, as folks get paid more, they get more concerned about losing that good salary, so they spend more time reviewing tape, reading the rules, going to seminars, etc.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

One indication of who the conferences views as its top referees can be gleaned from who worked the PAC-12 tournament championship game: Lisa Jones, Brenda Pantoja and Michol Murray.

Interesting - same crew did Mountain West Final. Pantoja and Murray did the WCC with Benny Luna. Big Sky on the other hand was Schofield, Bird and Trimble.

 

[Matthew1589]

Just read this article about WBB officiating...

March Madness: As women's game grows, will officiating improve? 'We just want it to be at the level of game play'