Michigan State coach sounds off about NCAA hosting format and the Starkville experience

[Plebe]

Aside from the polemics of it, I thought this article contained some interesting tidbits of information:

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...ch-column-msu-women-ncaa-tournament/82061218/

 

[meyers7]

Wah, wah, wah. Michigan State's own fault.

Breslin Center was contracted to the Michigan High School Athletic Association for the girls state tournament. And, athletic director Mark Hollis said, there wasn’t a basketball floor available to use at Jenison Field House.

If you want to host, have somewhere to host. Or just put on your big girl britches and win the game. They'd probably be whining about playing UCONN in Bridgeport if they'd have beaten Miss St.

This is why I'm a Wolverine fan.

 

[UcMiami]

meyers7 - absolutely agree!
What a whiny article - a bad rule on a foot out of bounds not being reviewable - give me a break. Don't like it get a proposal into the committee and see if you can get it changed, but you have coached and played your career with that rule so just get on with it. 'Block or foul' yeah, every play in every game comes down to what officials see, and if the call goes against you you complain and they happen home and away.

As for the hosting - been a rule for two years now, so go complain to your facilities administrator for screwing you over, but don't complain to the NCAA - Louisville didn't complain last year, they just went out and won in a road game. ASU's administration jumped through hoops to clear the home court schedule last year. Home courts in the NCAA are unfair on the underdog teams but are in place to get more fans in to watch games - sounds like it worked in MS if the place was so load. Good for them, good for the game, and look no further than your own school for the problem.

All that said - I do have a problem with the Lexington regional site - I think the committee needs to revisit that rule, as the arena is a home site for the school, just not for the WCBB team which limits its games to only two to get around the rule. That I think is an unfair advantage as if seeds held KY would be playing two lower seed teams on a de facto home court even if not de jure.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yeah good posts and I totally agree,..... though feel sorry for the Spartan players and program.... but for crying out loud..... if you want to cash in on what you have earned and deserved for your play all year....... DO NOT contract your building out for that weekend in March..... Pretty simple..... and yes it is a rule as pointed out.....

 

[ballhawk]

What a whiny article. If you want home court advantage don't contract out your facility. Pathetic.

 

[f1f1ferrari]

Suzy Merchant sounds like she's got a screw loose or something. She decides that shoot-arounds aren't worth the commute, but that's someone else's fault? She also says the better team didn't win, that they were the better team. Yet they lost 2 regular season road games to unranked teams? The "better team" should be able to win on the road. And she says "We probably win by 12 at home". But they lost to then-unranked Louisville and unranked Penn State in the regular season, both at home. But they're "the better team". Yeah, uh-huh, sure.

 

[terif831]

Suzy Merchant sounds like she's got a screw loose or something. She decides that shoot-arounds aren't worth the commute, but that's someone else's fault? She also says the better team didn't win, that they were the better team. Yet they lost 2 regular season road games to unranked teams? The "better team" should be able to win on the road. And she says "We probably win by 12 at home". But they lost to then-unranked Louisville and unranked Penn State in the regular season, both at home. But they're "the better team". Yeah, uh-huh, sure.

And sometimes "the better team" doesn't win, however you might be measuring who is "better." That's why they play the games. Especially true at tournament time, when it's "one and done" and every team worth their salt works and prepares to put their absolute best foot forward. Geez, should one really have to explain these things to a coach?

 

[HGN]

Well I wonder if the MSU coach would be saying that if the game had been hosted on the MSU campus instead of the Mississippi State campus? Also , it appears that the MSU AD did not think that the MSU team ( Men or women's) would play well enough during the season to be a host in the NCAAT because he rented out the arena............Can't blame Mississippi for that.

 

[Fiftyish]

Looking past the whine, there is a nugget of truth in the article. It would be great if the women's game grew in popularity so that Tournament games were always played on neutral courts. I know that's not going to happen very soon but it would be good for the game.

 

[JordyG]

Looking past the whine, there is a nugget of truth in the article. It would be great if the women's game grew in popularity so that Tournament games were always played on neutral courts. I know that's not going to happen very soon but it would be good for the game.

This may all seem a little scattershot. Look, I know this article sounds as if Merchant has a wet diaper. If you want to be in a better position for the NCAA's it's easy. Just win during the season. That would've spurred confidence in the MSU administration not to book those weeks. And yes, sour grapes make the cheapest whine. But the truth is these venues, pro and college are in the money making business. WBB in general is poorly supported, and out of season bookings is how these venues make up for their losses. I don't know how well MSU draws. Someone I'm sure here on the BY will speak on this better than I. Clearly MSU administrators threw the dice and lost. But the problem is worse on the pro level where these venues are surviving on a thread. On the college and pro level the draw of the men's game partially makes up for the lack of draw on the women's side. But many of the suits feel they're running a charity with the women's game which loses money. We UConn lovers don't see these issues. But this issue is multifaceted. I just fear for the health of WBB. Sports popularity is built on rivalries that capture the public's imagination. That's what puts asses in seats. The women's pro game feeds off of the college game. It is to the disadvantage of WBB that such a rivalry no longer exists. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrongheaded here.

 

[toadfoot]

Wah, wah, wah. Michigan State's own fault.

Breslin Center was contracted to the Michigan High School Athletic Association for the girls state tournament. And, athletic director Mark Hollis said, there wasn’t a basketball floor available to use at Jenison Field House.

If you want to host, have somewhere to host. Or just put on your big girl britches and win the game. They'd probably be whining about playing UCONN in Bridgeport if they'd have beaten Miss St.

This is why I'm a Wolverine fan.

Granted a fair amount of whining, but as I understand the circumstances, they contracted the use of the facilities in 2011, before the NCAA decided on the current hosting format. Contractually Michigan St. may have simply been in a box. I've also been told that NCAA rules prohibit a hosting school from using other facilities farther than 100 miles(?) from the host school, so using another arena in Michigan may not have been legit.

 

[toadfoot]

Suzy Merchant sounds like she's got a screw loose or something. She decides that shoot-arounds aren't worth the commute, but that's someone else's fault? She also says the better team didn't win, that they were the better team. Yet they lost 2 regular season road games to unranked teams? The "better team" should be able to win on the road. And she says "We probably win by 12 at home". But they lost to then-unranked Louisville and unranked Penn State in the regular season, both at home. But they're "the better team". Yeah, uh-huh, sure.

We'll never know what would have happened if this game had been at MSU, but in fairness Mississippi St. was not exactly a powerhouse on the road. And they did lose at Georgia and Missouri. Neither of whom finished the season ranked.

 

[EricLA]

I read the comments first before the article and thought "Man, you guys are harsh. No way could a HC sound that bad". NYET LOL. I was wrong. She comes across just as you all described. Michigan State was a top 25 team preseason and slowly moved up the rankings hovering around the 15-20 range for most of the final few months of the season.

If they wanted to host as a 4 seed, they should have planned better. I think Michigan State just made one bad call after another - from the school not preserving a stadium for the 1st round to play at. And the HC should have had her team go to the stadium for shoot around, regardless of how long the "commute" was.

 

[toadfoot]

I read the comments first before the article and thought "Man, you guys are harsh. No way could a HC sound that bad". NYET LOL. I was wrong. She comes across just as you all described. Michigan State was a top 25 team preseason and slowly moved up the rankings hovering around the 15-20 range for most of the final few months of the season.

If they wanted to host as a 4 seed, they should have planned better. I think Michigan State just made one bad call after another - from the school not preserving a stadium for the 1st round to play at. And the HC should have had her team go to the stadium for shoot around, regardless of how long the "commute" was.

As I said above, in order to plan better they would have needed the services of a psychic. Is the coach whinning, absolutely. Should she have done things differently, absolutely, but there's no way that MSU could have reasonably anticipated the current hosting setup back in 2011 when they signed a longtime contract to host the boys & girls state championships.

 

[UcMiami]

Granted a fair amount of whining, but as I understand the circumstances, they contracted the use of the facilities in 2011, before the NCAA decided on the current hosting format. Contractually Michigan St. may have simply been in a box. I've also been told that NCAA rules prohibit a hosting school from using other facilities farther than 100 miles(?) from the host school, so using another arena in Michigan may not have been legit.

As Louisville found out last year the rule is I believe it must be one of your 'Home Courts' and you cannot say that you will use another venue even at your own school, and certainly not in your city - something that Louisville looked into when the Yum was booked for the weekend. Uconn could use Hartford or Gampel because they are alternate home sites for the women's team, but not either Mohegan Sun or Bridgeport regardless of distance.

JordyG - their are some great rivalries in the women's game and some very passionate fanbases - it is unlikely their will ever be a Uconn/TN because the game has moved beyond a 'top two' program dynamic. For 18 years there were a few hiccups when neither Uconn or TN won the NC, but otherwise those were the only teams anyone was aware of. Boston/NY in baseball survives because of a century of history, but has seldom actually been relevant - and it has relied on the other pro teams in both cities to maintain the fire. Boston/LA in basketball died a long time ago. Most of the other rivalries in the pros are regional or in football are based on very small groups of 4 teams vying for an automatic bid to the post season and playing almost 40% of each season in round robin format.

 

[UcMiami]

As I said above, in order to plan better they would have needed the services of a psychic. Is the coach whinning, absolutely. Should she have done things differently, absolutely, but there's no way that MSU could have reasonably anticipated the current hosting setup back in 2011 when they signed a longtime contract to host the boys & girls state championships.

Yeah, but maybe they could have found an alternative hosting site for the boys & girls tournament if they had tried - they lose the fee, but get to play at home. That is what ASU did.

 

[toadfoot]

Yeah, but maybe they could have found an alternative hosting site for the boys & girls tournament if they had tried - they lose the fee, but get to play at home. That is what ASU did.

Possible, but imagine the implications for parents and fans of the participating high school teams if the high school tournament had been moved 100+ miles away. Hotel reservations, travel plans, etc. And without knowing the terms of the contract they signed in 2011 we can't know what possible financial or legal penalties MSU could have faced by cancelling the high school events.
I think the NCAA bears some responsibility for the situation by having rules that restrict the alternatives for hosting schools. Would it have been so horrible to move the host site to say, Ann Arbor, roughly an hour away?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Possible, but imagine the implications for parents and fans of the participating high school teams if the high school tournament had been moved 100+ miles away. Hotel reservations, travel plans, etc. And without knowing the terms of the contract they signed in 2011 we can't know what possible financial or legal penalties MSU could have faced by cancelling the high school events.
I think the NCAA bears some responsibility for the situation by having rules that restrict the alternatives for hosting schools. Would it have been so horrible to move the host site to say, Ann Arbor, roughly an hour away?

I'm not arguing your basic premises. But moving that game to Ann Arbor would sort of be like moving a UofA game to ASU, etc. Pretty sure those schools don't like each other much.

 

[UcMiami]

Possible, but imagine the implications for parents and fans of the participating high school teams if the high school tournament had been moved 100+ miles away. Hotel reservations, travel plans, etc. And without knowing the terms of the contract they signed in 2011 we can't know what possible financial or legal penalties MSU could have faced by cancelling the high school events.
I think the NCAA bears some responsibility for the situation by having rules that restrict the alternatives for hosting schools. Would it have been so horrible to move the host site to say, Ann Arbor, roughly an hour away?

Sounds like all they would have needed to do is find a basketball floor rental for their own field house which has 4000 seating capacity - and I am sure there are other venues in Michigan a lot closer than 100 miles. Would have cost them some money and taken some effort, and some negotiations, but not a whole lot of either.

Possible, but imagine the implications for parents and fans of the participating high school teams if the high school tournament had been moved 100+ miles away. Hotel reservations, travel plans, etc. And without knowing the terms of the contract they signed in 2011 we can't know what possible financial or legal penalties MSU could have faced by cancelling the high school events.
I think the NCAA bears some responsibility for the situation by having rules that restrict the alternatives for hosting schools. Would it have been so horrible to move the host site to say, Ann Arbor, roughly an hour away?

The whole idea of having 'host sites' in WCBB is to get the local fanbase out to the games - are Michigan fans really going to come support an MSU team? And Michigan is hosting WNIT games.

 

[toadfoot]

Sounds like all they would have needed to do is find a basketball floor rental for their own field house which has 4000 seating capacity - and I am sure there are other venues in Michigan a lot closer than 100 miles. Would have cost them some money and taken some effort, and some negotiations, but not a whole lot of either.

The whole idea of having 'host sites' in WCBB is to get the local fanbase out to the games - are Michigan fans really going to come support an MSU team? And Michigan is hosting WNIT games.

Who said anything about Michigan fans. As I see it there were 2 alternatives, play the game closer to MSU or play in Starksville, Missisippi. Which one would have a better chance of attracting MSU fans?
And I used Michigan as one possibility. As you point out there are numerous other possibilities within a short drive of the MSU campus, but if the NCAA rule is that it must be one of your "home courts" that's not a valid alternative.
The bottom line is that this has happened before and will likely happen again and just maybe somebody at the NCAA ought to use this as a teaching moment and see if there's a better way to handle situations where schools have "earned" the right to host.

 

[Carnac]

Looking past the whine, there is a nugget of truth in the article. It would be great if the women's game grew in popularity so that Tournament games were always played on neutral courts. I know that's not going to happen very soon but it would be good for the game.

At first glance, I was going to agree with you, but then I had an epiphany. I'm not so sure about it being good for the game, here's why: Think about Television coverage, fan support (some teams don't travel well) and revenue income from those 1st round games.

If all of the 1st round games were played at a neutral site, there is a very good change that none of the games would be sold out, or that enough tickets would be sold to cover the cost of the event.
If however you stage the games at the home of one of the participating teams, then you are almost always assured of some sell outs, or near sell outs.

WCBB is already not that big of a draw fan wise. As you know, the interest in WCBB is about 1/3 that of the men. This is also true on many college campuses. Some of the women's basketball programs are regarded as an after thought. Its only because of title IX, that some women's college programs exist.

Gabby Williams made an observation as she sat in Gampel arena watching the second tournament game of the day after UConn had played. One of the BY posters sat behind her and heard her lament that there was nobody there for that game. Most of the people that attended the UConn game left. Only a scant few traveled to Storrs to watch and support their team's play, or a few UConn fans had enough interest about UConn's next opponent to stay at watch. Again.....REVENUE. Unsold tickets can cause shifts in thinking and procedure.

On too many campuses, when the men play, the arena is full. When the women play, you can hear crickets. Just remember, sometimes it's not about fairness, it's about the Ca$h. Cash (revenue) feeds the bulldog, and keeps programs solvent. Bottom line: its sad, but that's where we live.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Exactl, Carnac - Long time ago, speaking with coach McGraw said something like, "We always want things to be fair - but fair may not be best for the game."

The point it to build a program so you can host and have fans involved and committed... so when you DON'T host they'll spend the big bucks and travel....

ALSO: Dabnabbit, this is not "The Committee" - the NCAA is at the beck-and-call of the coaches and the Athletic Directors. If she didn't like this new tweak, she should have spoken up... and even if she DID speak up, she got outvoted.

 

[Fiftyish]

Of course I understand it's always about the money. That's why I said I wished it grew in popularity, i.e. people would pay to go see a women's game. Growing in popularity would mean being equal to the men's game. Isn't going to happen anytime soon, if ever but it would be great if it did.

 

[UcMiami]

I think the NCAA gets it right - put up or shut up to those getting top four seeds. They got 7100 into the arena for the game - nuff said.
Losers whine, winners keep playing. Washington beat Maryland in MD, TN beat ASU in AZ, FSU beat TAMU in TX, DePaul beat Louisville in KY - that is four of eight games that involved 7 or better seeds against 2-4 seeds being won by the road team - 50/50 odds - if your team is good enough you win, if not you start summer season early.

 

[ocoandasoc]

Neutral sites for all the games is a pipe dream. Heck, some of the gyms were mostly empty when the home team wasn't playing even though the homers had tickets for the session. Too many fans of a lot of these women's teams are not really WCBB fans. Heck, even Geno complains that a lot of UConn's fans aren't really basketball fans... they're just fans of winning.