It's Pitt and Syracuse!!!!

[jpm25]

Swofford went to Pitt and Syracuse because they were weak and panicking. If I am wrong, how come he gave them a few days to accept the offer?

Everyone's knee jerk reaction is to do exactly what you are doing, which is to cry about teams that won't be in our conference that don't really matter to the success of UConn's athletic program.

Ok, now Pitt and SU are the weak ones. He avoided the strength of the rest of the BE because he couldn't handle it. He gave them a few days to accept because he was weak, not them. He knew that he had a weak hand vs. the Big 10 and if he gave the Big 10 time and information, the chances of him losing the programs he wanted grew significantly.

I'm not crying about teams that won't be in our conference, but I do acknowledge that the BE is a signficantly, significantly weaker conference without SU and Pitt. This is my opinion, so I'm not going to portray it as a fact, but it's pretty close to that.

Let's plug the holes with Navy, capture the DC market and the prestige of that institution, and we're off to the races!!

 

[gars44]

Swofford obviously disagrees with you.

You are really going to criticize Graham's recruiting? and losing to Iowa? Really? And Jamie Dixon built Pitt basketball? I seem to remember Ben Howland doing ok, and Pitt winning multiple BE championships before his tenure.

And knocking Syracuse because of the age of their coach? You don't think that the HC job at Syracuse is one of the top 10-20 coaching jobs in the country? Jim B won a NC not too long ago.

It's everyone's knee jerk reaction to try to sugar coat this, but those are two historically significant programs across many sports and two fine academic institutions.

It's not sugarcoating. It's not. But you have to get yourself up off the floor. Getting knocked down is not a weakness. The weakness is not getting back up. Let's get up and play ball. That's all Nelson is saying. We will survive.

 

[jpm25]

It's not sugarcoating. It's not. But you have to get yourself up off the floor. Getting knocked down is not a weakness. The weakness is not getting back up. Let's get up and play ball. That's all Nelson is saying. We will survive.

I'm not worried about UConn, but suggesting that the BE is almost better off without SU and Pitt is ridiculous.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I agree with pretty much everything said originally. Losing Syracuse and Pitt is a major nostalgic hit to te conference. Put emotion aside, and it's not as bad as it seems.

My problem is that I believe we've got incompetent leadership, that has priorities that are not strong enough to keep other conferences from being more attractive to academic institutions that compete in all sports, specifically football, intercollegiately at the highest level. We're very attractive to 1-AA programs, and non-BCS teams, and with the current leadership, there's no reason to expect it to change.

IF - a new leadership office were to be established, that was completely new, outsiders coming in, and untainted by the history of the conference and had absolutely nothing to do with the catholics, aside from business interest, and it was set up anywhere - ANYWHERE - but providence...

In that case - we certainly are a strong conference, with a BCS bid, with 14 teams and TCU set to join in 2012, making 15 all sports except football, and 7 football schools, and much like the SEC - we would be in position to be a predator, for just one more football program to get back to the 8 we had before and 16 teams overall for all sports besides.

In that case, the basketball side of things really becomse a powerful thing, b/c what program with a powerful football program, and a powerful basketball program would not want to be that 16th team?

Anybody got faith in friar tuck and the providence branch of the vatican he represents?

I don't.

 

[gars44]

I agree with pretty much everything said originally. Losing Syracuse and Pitt is a major nostalgic hit to te conference. Put emotion aside, and it's not as bad as it seems.

My problem is that I believe we've got incompetent leadership, that has priorities that are not strong enough to keep other conferences from being more attractive to academic institutions that compete in all sports, specifically football, intercollegiately at the highest level. We're very attractive to 1-AA programs, and non-BCS teams, and with the current leadership, there's no reason to expect it to change.

IF - a new leadership office were to be established, that was completely new, outsiders coming in, and untainted by the history of the conference and had absolutely nothing to do with the catholics, aside from business interest, and it was set up anywhere - ANYWHERE - but providence...

In that case - we certainly are a strong conference, with a BCS bid, with 14 teams and TCU set to join in 2012, making 15 all sports except football, and 7 football schools, and much like the SEC - we would be in position to be a predator, for just one more football program to get back to the 8 we had before and 16 teams overall for all sports besides.

In that case, the basketball side of things really becomse a powerful thing, b/c what program with a powerful football program, and a powerful basketball program would not want to be that 16th team?

Anybody got faith in friar tuck and the providence branch of the vatican he represents?

I don't.

Carl, forget about the big east staying together if something better comes along for individual members. I have no doubt that if the B12 offered Lou and WVA right now, they'd be gone by this afternoon. That's a given. The conference is now just a developmental league for the big whatevers. No question. No amount of leadership is going to save it at this point, so Marinatto is as good as anyone. But football will be football. If we add UCF and ECU, the actual quality of the football on the field will probably be an improvement over Pitt and Syr. Throw in Navy and Air Force, and you bring back the "nostalgia" that you lose with Pitt and Syr. So, it's not a good long term solution, and it's not the end of world as we know it, either. But please, don't bring in a strong leader now. We need to be renters at this point. With month to month rather than long term lease.

 

[mattp]

i think what Nelson is saying is that the BigEast's on the field product hasn't really diminished at all as a result of Pitt and SU's defection, and he's right. SU was the worst program of the New Big East, and Pitt was average. this raid is less like losing Miami and Vtech and more like losing Temple and BC. we do lose a little "history" but we all know that's pretty much nonsense anyhow and most fans weren't alive when either team was worth bragging about. TV market-wise we lose a couple of dying rust-belt cities that are clearly past their prime, and i doubt excited our TV partners too much to begin with.

that being said i still think the BE is weaker today than last month, but it's certainly not the end of the world, and i'd much rather stay here than join the mess that is the Big12

 

[ctchamps]

i think what Nelson is saying is that the BigEast's on the field product hasn't really diminished at all as a result of Pitt and SU's defection, and he's right. SU was the worst program of the New Big East, and Pitt was average. this raid is less like losing Miami and Vtech and more like losing Temple and BC. we do lose a little "history" but we all know that's pretty much nonsense anyhow and most fans weren't alive when either team was worth bragging about. TV market-wise we lose a couple of dying rust-belt cities that are clearly past their prime, and i doubt excited our TV partners too much to begin with.

that being said i still think the BE is weaker today than last month, but it's certainly not the end of the world, and i'd much rather stay here than join the mess that is the Big12

My take as well. But even with this logical perspective I doubt it takes place.

 

[freescooter]

For sure I agree with nelson, and I seldom ever say that, on the Big 12 situation. It is a mess, too and is likely to remain so. Every time the LHN issue seems to get solved, Texas pushes the envelope again...Can't carry high school games live...ok we'll carry high lights...and we decide what and what players we're recruiting, constitute highlights. If you're Kansas or Iowa State, I'm not sure you have too much choice, but Missouri might have options, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State might have options. The risk you run is that the next time Texas and the Oklahomas announce they are ging to the PAC 12 they actually go...and you're in a league which has even fewer options than the Big East. I think that long term, a combination of the Big East and the Big 12 football schools, probably without Texas and the Oklahoma twosome, and maybe without Missouri, is in the future. For Louisville and Cincy and TCU, that isn't a horrible outcome. For UCONN we need the big East to last another couple of years at most. I doubt we're partof the Big 12-East.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

As long as the Big East doesn't lose its mind and add 3 service academies, I think the league will be fine. Temple (football only) is a good idea, and I really, really like Houston for all sports. Houston should be a lot better in hoops and they have already picked it up in recruiting. Houston is a great center for high school basketball talent, especially by southern standards where the best athletes play football.

 

[ctchamps]

For sure I agree with nelson, and I seldom ever say that, on the Big 12 situation. It is a mess, too and is likely to remain so. Every time the LHN issue seems to get solved, Texas pushes the envelope again...Can't carry high school games live...ok we'll carry high lights...and we decide what and what players we're recruiting, constitute highlights. If you're Kansas or Iowa State, I'm not sure you have too much choice, but Missouri might have options, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State might have options. The risk you run is that the next time Texas and the Oklahomas announce they are ging to the PAC 12 they actually go...and you're in a league which has even fewer options than the Big East. I think that long term, a combination of the Big East and the Big 12 football schools, probably without Texas and the Oklahoma twosome, and maybe without Missouri, is in the future. For Louisville and Cincy and TCU, that isn't a horrible outcome. For UCONN we need the big East to last another couple of years at most. I doubt we're partof the Big 12-East.

Joining Texas with their attitude would make the inclusion of ND with its football exclusion a brilliant option. No way I want anything to do with Texas. But people are not acting logically. Fear does that to people and everybody is trying to cause panic with everyone else. So we'll see if any BE teams see the logic of what you and nelson are making and stay put. I have my doubts.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl, forget about the big east staying together if something better comes along for individual members. I have no doubt that if the B12 offered Lou and WVA right now, they'd be gone by this afternoon. That's a given. The conference is now just a developmental league for the big whatevers. No question. No amount of leadership is going to save it at this point, so Marinatto is as good as anyone. But football will be football. If we add UCF and ECU, the actual quality of the football on the field will probably be an improvement over Pitt and Syr. Throw in Navy and Air Force, and you bring back the "nostalgia" that you lose with Pitt and Syr. So, it's not a good long term solution, and it's not the end of world as we know it, either. But please, don't bring in a strong leader now. We need to be renters at this point. With month to month rather than long term lease.

I disagree. I think that with a conference leadership intact, that places priority on the all sports colleges, over the catholic basketball interests, we are in a very good position. The key is keeping the BCS intact.

BCS colleges distributed something like $750 million between themselves last year, while non BCS schools distributed under $100 mill. don't have the energy to look up the reference right now, but I think it was an article on bloomberg or something.

We need to be part of BCS football conference. Taht's the bottom line. WE need leadership that values that over basketball.

It makes no sense to just eject the basketball colleges, if they are willing to submit to a new leadership model and get rid of providence. There is money to be had there.

If you think about it, an 8 team football conference with a BCS bid is HIGHLY desireable to be part of. It's easier to win the title when you've got 7 opponents to beat rather than 9 or 15.

The 8 / 16 model could continue, and reap the basketball rewards for having the catholic east coast presence and madison square garden, and we could be very attractive to many, many BCS programs with strong basketball programs as well anywhere east of the rocky mountains.

We'd need to find 1 school.

It will never happen though, until the leadership in providence is gone, and that pool of schools out there has reason to believe that coming to the big east is a good move for an all sports BCS level football college.

 

[gars44]

I disagree. I think that with a conference leadership intact, that places priority on the all sports colleges, over the catholic basketball interests, we are in a very good position. The key is keeping the BCS intact.

BCS colleges distributed something like $750 million between themselves last year, while non BCS schools distributed under $100 mill. don't have the energy to look up the reference right now, but I think it was an article on bloomberg or something.

We need to be part of BCS football conference. Taht's the bottom line. WE need leadership that values that over basketball.

It makes no sense to just eject the basketball colleges, if they are willing to submit to a new leadership model and get rid of providence. There is money to be had there.

If you think about it, an 8 team football conference with a BCS bid is HIGHLY desireable to be part of. It's easier to win the title when you've got 7 opponents to beat rather than 9 or 15.

The 8 / 16 model could continue, and reap the basketball rewards for having the catholic east coast presence and madison square garden, and we could be very attractive to many, many BCS programs with strong basketball programs as well anywhere east of the rocky mountains.

We'd need to find 1 school.

It will never happen though, until the leadership in providence is gone, and that pool of schools out there has reason to believe that coming to the big east is a good move for an all sports BCS level football college.

Carl, here's the problem with that. I don't think we would have enough political weight with just 9 schools footballs. Maybe with 12, better with 14, better yet with 16. Even if it's ECU, UCF, SMU, Houston, and (is there anyone else?) Memphis? It just gets more senators and congressmen/women involved in case there's an anti-trust fist fight. The BCS wouldn't dare take away our BCS bid if it was justified by a large tent inclusion of have-nots from around the country. No one in the conference actually has to want to be there, or even commit to stay forever, but the conference has to have a shot at the national championship and a BCS bowl. Then the lucky winners can get plucked out periodically. We cannnot become a non-BCS conference, however, and I don't think 9 gets us there. I could be wrong, but I prefer the additional security. Basketball will have to suffer, but we'll be fine. Look at Memphis under Cal.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Here's an interview with Gladchuk at Navy talking aobut the money distribution among BCS colleges and non-BCS.

http://navy.scout.com/2/1108796.html

The most important thing for UConn right now are those three letters - BCS - and to make sure whatever shape or form the conference were in, still has them.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I still disagree, shocking I know. Going into 2012, as things stand right now, we'll have 7 all sports schools making up the football side of the big east, and 8 catholic colleges making up the non-football side of things.

A strong leadership, that understands that the security of those 7 schools in retaining the BCS affiliation as being more important than anything else is required.

There's not a single president or AD in the country, I believe that thinks that leadership is coming out of providence - my opinion. That's why the very concept of a program like say Penn State, might be at all interested in going to the big east is completely ludicrous.

BUT - with a powerful leadership, and I have no idea who it would be, coming out of say - New York City...?

That leadership would have to make it very clear, that any big time BCS program that would join with those 7 schools, with a sub/requisite of a respected and powerful basketball program - would be in a very secure environment in an 8 team football league with the AQ - BCS bid?

IF - you could blow up the providence leadership, and maintain the catholic colleges in that somehow, even without Syracuse and PItt, and adding TCU, you would still have all the other eastern college basketball presence, the tournament at MSG, and the potential earnings from teh NCAA tournamnet, and all the media market stuff that we're supposed to have for a television contract anyway. We would need to fill one slot, and we could go pretty much after any fish in the country.

You'd have to find one school in the eastern U.S.A. with a strong BCS football program, and a strong basketball program, and the 8 / 16 model works with an 8 team all sports + football division, and an 8 team non-football division scheduling all sports.

I realize it's all a pipe dream, but it's better than thinking about sitting around with a collective thumb up everybody's arses waiting for Swofford to snap his fingers.

 

[zls44]

Houston's facilities are a joke. Temple is a much better option. Which says a lot.

I am more confident than ever that the BCS bid we have is, instead, going to go to the Mountain West, with TCU staying there as well. This is a disaster. Stop sugar-coating it. The problem isn't just losing SU and Pitt...it's replacing them with terrible options. I am fully confident that the Big East will go after all 3 service academies as football onlies.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Houston's facilities are a joke. Temple is a much better option. Which says a lot.

I am more confident than ever that the BCS bid we have is, instead, going to go to the Mountain West, with TCU staying there as well. This is a disaster. Stop sugar-coating it. The problem isn't just losing SU and Pitt...it's replacing them with terrible options. I am fully confident that the Big East will go after all 3 service academies as football onlies.

There is no way TCU returns to the MWC if the Big East is still a viable league. The MWC TV deal is strangling that conference.

 

[zls44]

There is no way TCU returns to the MWC if the Big East is still a viable league. The MWC TV deal is strangling that conference.

What if the MWC gets the BCS bid? Hmm?

Do you realize how bad the Big East TV deal is going to be? I'd be shocked if it was above $750 million from NBC or ESPN. Shocked.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What if the MWC gets the BCS bid? Hmm?

Do you realize how bad the Big East TV deal is going to be? I'd be shocked if it was above $750 million from NBC or ESPN. Shocked.

Because Syracuse and Pitt are gone? And replaced with service academies who will easily outdraw them both in ratings? ESPN is playing hardball and Comcast knows they will have to pay not just a market price but enough to prevent ESPN from rat-duck*ing them again.

We need the Houston market thought. No other team on the table comes close to Houston for market value, and I think Houston can deliver a decent share of its home market.

 

[Uptop]

Swofford went to Pitt and Syracuse because they were weak and panicking. If I am wrong, how come he gave them a few days to accept the offer?

Everyone's knee jerk reaction is to do exactly what you are doing, which is to cry about teams that won't be in our conference that don't really matter to the success of UConn's athletic program.

You're right. I've been in Darryl Gross' presence on several occasions and each time i come away finding it difficult to seperate him, weakness and lack of guts

 

[whaler11]

You guys have it all wrong. The ACC leadership team are idiots. Pittsburgh and Syracuse suck. Houston and service academies are the ticket.

The ACC will rue the day they didn't get 3.9% of the Houston television market.

 

[whaler11]

Because Syracuse and Pitt are gone? And replaced with service academies who will easily outdraw them both in ratings? ESPN is playing hardball and Comcast knows they will have to pay not just a market price but enough to prevent ESPN from rat-duck*ing them again.

We need the Houston market thought. No other team on the table comes close to Houston for market value, and I think Houston can deliver a decent share of its home market.

Comcast will probably treat the opportunity to bid on this league like it's an Olympic Games that never ends. 71 billionty dollars for Navy/West Virginia. They are going to make ESPN look so stupid trying to run the ACC and SEC past America.

 

[whaler11]

And replaced with service academies who will easily outdraw them both in ratings? .

The service academies are such great television draws that CBS College Sports owns the rights. If you happen to have Directv and actually get it... you probably know it as the station that shows the games when the Rice mascot gets into fights at basketball games.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Comcast will probably treat the opportunity to bid on this league like it's an Olympic Games that never ends. 71 billionty dollars for Navy/West Virginia. They are going to make ESPN look so stupid trying to run the ACC and SEC past America.

You are right. Let's shut the athletic program down. That will show everyone.

 

[whaler11]

You are right. Let's shut the athletic program down. That will show everyone.

Why don't you reply to the message about how dumb the ACC is to prefer Syracuse and Pittsburgh to Navy and Houston?

I know you think what people post on message boards matter. I realize that if they don't get UConn into the ACC the athletic program is shut down regardless of what I say, think or post.

 

[noeynox]

You are right. Let's shut the athletic program down. That will show everyone.

Its hard to take you seriously when you say "Its only Pitt and SU leaving" then suggest that the service academies will get better ratings. Are we to presume that these "better" ratings will bring more money when it comes to Television Contracts?