Is it coaching or the recruits we get?

[hjoerring]

A number of discussions following the win over Duke raised explicitly and in some cases implicitly the reasons for uconn dominance over Duke and others. A number of coaches (F at MD, fx) have said that if Geno didn't have all the AA he may have to coach as they do. The logic ... Indeed, Geno has said on various oc that having highly skilled players produce champions-- something to that effect. This has been taken to mean, by some, that without getting the top 1 or 2 in a class we may not have had the successes we are enjoying. This leads me to think about Aja. Were Aja to go to Duke, ND or Tenn (rather than Uconn) could uconn win the next two NC (assuming all are healthy, develop as they should, etc)? Or, would Duke finally win-- or one of the others. The logic: 'I told you so....' Or is there more to it: tradition, coaching, and the importance of having a particular system? I have always been of the view that you need competent, t and skilled players-- not necessarily the top 3 or even 15 in their class, but more importantly you need a winning system. The latter is what Geno has forged at uconn. When he leaves the coach replacing him should know and believe in that system. In that way, we are not talking about rebuilding but continuation. Look at our men's bb team. Calhoun built a system and he wanted the program to continue with it- thus the hiring of his former player and asst coach. While it is still early, we have not missed a step. In wbb I am aware that we hate tenn and think that Holly isn't smart; however, she has done a great job in my view of continuing that system with success-- no rebuilding. Another ex. would be Gail G who left Duke for UT and never found success (of course it was also about recruiting in TX). My point, uconn wins because of good x & o but also because of the system of bb that has been created here, where player x an come in and is ask to execute a play with the same precision as player Y.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I don't think your analysis requires considering top 3 or top 15 - just very talented and suitable for Geno's system.

His success does require top players - but it isn't where they are ranked, it is their skill sets and how he can use them that leads to the success UConn as had. Give another coach the same players as Geno and they will certainly be successful, I just doubt quite as successful as he as been. And give him somewhat less talented players and he still would be successful - maybe an NC or more than one - but not the runs of victories, the double digit victories or the quantity of NC's.

While you may hope for a continuation of success with a future coach from "within", the one point to bear in mind is the mantra "never follow a legend". Gail G could speak to that, I think.

 

[alexrgct]

Geno's #1 national recruits:

-Nykesha Sales
-Shea Ralph
-Tamika Williams
-Diana Taurasi
- Ann Strother
-Tina Charles
-Maya Moore
-Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis
-Breanna Stewart

That being said, Geno has turned non-#1 recruits into NPOY winners: Lobo, Rizzotti, Kara Wolters, and Sue Bird. So you have to give him some credit for recognizing and developing talent.

I do think "the system" has a lot to do with Geno's success. Just look at the incredible S&C program, the effort that is demanded at all times, the great track record developing posts, etc. The results speak for themselves, but without Sue and D, Maya and Tina, etc., he doesn't have eight championships. Just as you were pretty much guaranteed a NC with Brittney Griner, certain championships depend on getting certain recruits. However, you don't win nattys without superior coaching. Of course, superior coaches recruit well.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I believe it was during the last Geno show he sideways addressed this issue by saying "other people get great players." The implication is that, yes, great players are important, but coaching makes them champions.

 

[UcMiami]

I think the answer is it is a bit of both - Geno has himself said you need the best player to win a NC and if you look back at the eight he has won he has had that player* and if you look at most of the other teams that won an NCs the same is true - Griner, Parker, Catchings/Holdsclaw. And most of those players were #1 coming out of HS, but there are also a lot of #1 HS players that never won one, so it takes more than a #1 HS rank. But if you look at the current team, and previous teams for Uconn there are a lot of players that were not ranked that highly that are outperforming the HS players that were ranked above them and while some of that is the inexactitude of HS rankings, a lot of it is coaching and a player's inner desire.
* last year is the exception where Griner and EDD were probably the #1/2 in the country, but in the NCAA no question the best player was Stewart.

 

[Wonkster]

A number of discussions following the win over Duke raised explicitly and in some cases implicitly the reasons for uconn dominance over Duke and others. A number of coaches (F at MD, fx) have said that if Geno didn't have all the AA he may have to coach as they do. The logic ... Indeed, Geno has said on various oc that having highly skilled players produce champions-- something to that effect. This has been taken to mean, by some, that without getting the top 1 or 2 in a class we may not have had the successes we are enjoying. This leads me to think about Aja. Were Aja to go to Duke, ND or Tenn (rather than Uconn) could uconn win the next two NC (assuming all are healthy, develop as they should, etc)? Or, would Duke finally win-- or one of the others. The logic: 'I told you so....' Or is there more to it: tradition, coaching, and the importance of having a particular system? I have always been of the view that you need competent, t and skilled players-- not necessarily the top 3 or even 15 in their class, but more importantly you need a winning system. The latter is what Geno has forged at uconn. When he leaves the coach replacing him should know and believe in that system. In that way, we are not talking about rebuilding but continuation. Look at our men's bb team. Calhoun built a system and he wanted the program to continue with it- thus the hiring of his former player and asst coach. While it is still early, we have not missed a step. In wbb I am aware that we hate tenn and think that Holly isn't smart; however, she has done a great job in my view of continuing that system with success-- no rebuilding. Another ex. would be Gail G who left Duke for UT and never found success (of course it was also about recruiting in TX). My point, uconn wins because of good x & o but also because of the system of bb that has been created here, where player x an come in and is ask to execute a play with the same precision as player Y.

Oy, gevalt - try using paragraphs next time, please.

 

[pap49cba]

It is a bit of both but, having said that, I have always felt that Geno was a brilliant judge of talent and character. There have been numerous top 10 players that he hasn't gone near for various reasons, rankings be damned. Not saying he always has been right but more often than not he HAS been right in terms of his system, the 'type' of player he wants and his approach to the game. He obviously sees things in certain h.s. players that the raters and other coaches don't. Prime examples would be Maria, Stef, Kelly, etc. And he is not reluctant to recruit role players if he believes they have what it takes to play at UConn.

 

[Fishy]

It's not really much of a mystery.

UConn has superior talent receiving superior coaching.

It's a tough nut for an opponent to crack.

If you're getting crushed on the court, you call a time out and then Geno is crushing you in the huddle.

 

[sparky]

Geno is able to meld great players and good players into his system of 'No Excuses". His expectations are high , but the rewards are even greater- NC's. He also, has a great support system in his asst. Coaches. So yes there are great players here, but more than that, there is outstanding coaching, and recruiting of players with complementary skill sets. He recruits needs not always the great player.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Geno makes good players into great players. He makes great players into superstars. And he makes superstars into all-time greats.

Plain and simple.

 

[pinotbear]

To me, this is the basic "nature vs. nurture" debate recast in high-top Converse ... or, Nikes, or whatever it is we wear nowadays.

It is as unresolvable as always - not the general agreement that it is a combination of both, but, where to specifically draw the line, and how to precisely identify the breakdown of influence in a particular individual, or a single "trait" in said individual.

It's a mystery, an ineffable conundrum, wrapped in an enigma, and all that jazz. Human beings and their behaviors are not that easily dissected, analyzed, and weighed. The one thing I will postulate with some confidence is, there is something about Geno , Chris, and the rest of the staff, that brings great development to the individual player and great success to the program. What makes a great symphony conductor...well, great? What makes a great writer? There is some marvelous combination of sensitivity and understand of human beings, singularly and plural, and the ability to communicate and use the aforesaid understanding, in a demanding, yet loving fashion.

That's enough use of vocabulary words for one post. It's like so many wonderful things in life folks, be it music, food, art, whatever. You can objectively measure the tangible ingredients that go into it, but, there's something undefinable that makes it magic.

OK, so a couple 'more vocab words...

 

[Huskyforlife]

Combo of both

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A factor that may be implicit in a few posts, but not expressly mentioned is team chemistry. Recently Geno mentioned this as a factor about this team - how well they got along. He also mentioned he has had some that don't and this is better. To the extent that Geno is looking for a certain personality type, one would hope that a combination of such players would click. Can slow down the passing/assists if a player is calibrating who she is passing to. Of course it is a combination of player raw talent and coaching. Height is not the only thing you can't coach.

Recruiting the talent has increased in importance as UConn's success has bred a program that can accept no less than a national championship game as the measure of a year. As Geno said recently in All Access or similar, (loose paraphrase) you have to arrive here ready to contribute, because we don't have the time to instill it. So, of course, he is thrilled with Saniya.

 

[Bestiarius]

It's not really much of a mystery.

If you're getting crushed on the court, you call a time out and then Geno is crushing you in the huddle.

Never thought of it this way. Advice to opponents, never call a timeout!

 

[Suebird10fan]

Short answer is both.

For the longer answer, start with the following question: which would have won more championships, Geno's* recruits with average (for top 10 teams) coaching, or average (for top 10 teams) recruits with Geno's coaching? I think anyone answering honestly has to say it's the former. Geno's recruits with average coaching win maybe four or five championships since 1995 whereas average recruits with Geno's coaching would have been more like two or three.

Looked at another way, Geno is clearly the best recruiter. As to who gets the most out of the players they have, I'd say Geno and Muffet are far and away the best. And I'm not so sure Muffet isn't even better than Geno. But in any case I don't think anyone else is close among the top programs.

* I say Geno but of course Chris D is a huge part of both the recruiting and the coaching

 

[semper]

One of the things that I most love about watching UCONN wbb is the passing; it's crucial to the aesthetic. And I noted that Geno said in the Duke presser (I think it was) that they don't recruit kids who can't pass. He is really looking for that in the top recruits he goes after apparently. Of course I guess all elite players are good passers, but some better than others, and that skill probably shades his decisions.

 

[ASweet3781]

I was at Boston at the Final 4 in 2006.

An LSU team with Seimone Augustus and Sylvia Folwes scored 45 points. They were horrendous and never competitive with a Duke team that just the previous week almost lost to one of the most flawed teams Geno ever had. Yes Geno gets the talent and you need the top talent to win in women's basketball. But coaching in this sport is huge. Just look at how UConn man handled the Louisville team that Baylor slept on.

 

[ScarlettB]

IMO in the beginning, it was coaching - and getting a few talented and driven players such as Lobo. Now it is still coaching, but to a lesser extent as UConn has had at least one if not more of the most talented players available in any year they have won a championship. Superior talent goes a long way - for example Jackie Stiles taking SMS to the final four or EDD taking her teams to the NCAA's. Geno is the best in the game, but this year, he has the most talented players hands down. I think there are quite a few coaches who could coach the current UConn team to a national championship. I felt the same way when you had Bird, DT, Cash, Williams and Jones.
I didn't realiza Ann Strother was a #1 coming out of high school. IMO, she is not in the same league with your other #1's. She certainly couldn't carry your teams on her back like some of the others on the list. The player I've always thought was special was Sue Bird. Where was she ranked?

 

[UcMiami]

Short answer is both.

For the longer answer, start with the following question: which would have won more championships, Geno's* recruits with average (for top 10 teams) coaching, or average (for top 10 teams) recruits with Geno's coaching? I think anyone answering honestly has to say it's the former. Geno's recruits with average coaching win maybe four or five championships since 1995 whereas average recruits with Geno's coaching would have been more like two or three.

Looked at another way, Geno is clearly the best recruiter. As to who gets the most out of the players they have, I'd say Geno and Muffet are far and away the best. And I'm not so sure Muffet isn't even better than Geno. But in any case I don't think anyone else is close among the top programs.

I say Geno but of course Chris D is a huge part of both the recruiting and the coaching

Well - I would say give Geno the two Baylor classes of Griner et al and Sims and he would have more than 1 NC with those kids. And I would say give him the TN teams over the years since Parker graduated and he would probably have at least 1 NC and certainly more FFs. Give him the Duke teams since GG and I think he would have a number of FFs. Not sure about either Stanford or ND - I think Tara and Muffet have done about as well as they could.

And give just about any other coach Tina and I don't think she ever wins a NPOY.

And I am not sure Geno is the best recruiter - he has gotten smoked on a number of players, but he has also gotten a few transcendent players - Maya and Stewart are the ones that stand out as the unanimous #1 players of their years and probably of the years around them, but what Geno did for Maya and what he is doing for Stewart expands their games in ways that other good coaches probably would not have. The other three players I think of in the same class with those two are Parker, EDD, and Griner and they went elsewhere and I would contend left college older but primarily the same players they were when they arrived. Maya would not likely have been pushed to develop her inside game and her defense at another school.
I left DT out of the list above because I believe she split HS POY awards and certainly wasn't seen as transcendent - that happened during her 4 years at Uconn and ever since.

 

[Jonathan Husky]

Well - I would say give Geno the two Baylor classes of Griner et al and Sims and he would have more than 1 NC with those kids. And I would say give him the TN teams over the years since Parker graduated and he would probably have at least 1 NC and certainly more FFs. Give him the Duke teams since GG and I think he would have a number of FFs. Not sure about either Stanford or ND - I think Tara and Muffet have done about as well as they could.

And give just about any other coach Tina and I don't think she ever wins a NPOY.

And I am not sure Geno is the best recruiter - he has gotten smoked on a number of players, but he has also gotten a few transcendent players - Maya and Stewart are the ones that stand out as the unanimous #1 players of their years and probably of the years around them, but what Geno did for Maya and what he is doing for Stewart expands their games in ways that other good coaches probably would not have. The other three players I think of in the same class with those two are Parker, EDD, and Griner and they went elsewhere and I would contend left college older but primarily the same players they were when they arrived. Maya would not likely have been pushed to develop her inside game and her defense at another school.
I left DT out of the list above because I believe she split HS POY awards and certainly wasn't seen as transcendent - that happened during her 4 years at Uconn and ever since.

I agree with you. A perfect example is the two centers in the UConn- Duke game. Willams and Dolson both started as freshman 4 years ago. Williams was highly rated (top 5) and Dolson was around 30-35.

Now, four years later Williams has not improved. She can rebound and block shots but has some difficulty in making layups and has no other successful shot. Dolson is probably the best center in WCBB (Chiney is a forward). She is an excellent passer, rebounder and is the hub of both the offense and defense at UConn She has a hook shot with either hand and is a great cutter to the basket. She has developed a jump shot that has 3 point range, Dolson is a complete player--Williams is one dimensional

The difference is the coaching--technique, team play, motivation.

Geno makes his players better--much better. Even great players like Taurasi and Bird become better. Good become great; great become greater.

It is the reason why a lot of the best, most highly motivated HS players come to UConn. They know they will get better over the four years.

 

[pvdoggy]

I agree with you. A perfect example is the two centers in the UConn- Duke game. Willams and Dolson both started as freshman 4 years ago. Williams was highly rated (top 5) and Dolson was around 30-35.
....

Why do people keep posting this nonsense. EW and SD are not from the same high school class.
EW is one year after SD. A better comparison is between EW and Kiah Stokes if you want to pick someone from
UConn that plays similar style and seems to have similar demeanor.

 

[UcMiami]

Why do people keep posting this nonsense. EW and SD are not from the same high school class.
EW is one year after SD. A better comparison is between EW and Kiah Stokes if you want to pick someone from
UConn that plays similar style and seems to have similar demeanor.

OK so are you expecting EW in her senior year to make the kind of leap that Stef made in her sophomore year? Yes they were a year apart, but the rankings they got are correct and the advancement that Stef has made each of her four years at Uconn is very dramatic, and the advancement that EW has made, not so much. I personally wouldn't be surprised if Stokes makes a dramatic improvement next year and outplays EW, especially if Wilson does not choose Uconn.
Comparing a players growth year to year is valid across classes and across decades. Is EW a class behind Stef, yes. Is EW playing as well as Stef played last year ... I say no. Do I expect EW to be as good next year as Stef is this year ... no.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Geno makes good players into great players. He makes great players into superstars. And he makes superstars into all-time greats.

Plain and simple.

Well put, Cam!

Good into great: Bria and Stef may be examples.

Great into superstars: Tina, Kaleena, and Rebecca may be examples.

Superstars into all-time greats: Diana and Maya are clear examples.

Sue may have jumped from good or possibly great to all-time great.

 

[cardfan]

it's both, but it starts with players. Just like Lobo and Rizzotti started it rolling for UConn, Azzi, Steding, started it for Stanford in a few years earlier. You guys continued it with Bird, DT, Maya, Stewie, KML. It's a guards game and you guys get great guards. You have 3 NCs because of DT and Maya. You need players to build around. Stanford got Wideman, Starbird, Folk, etc, but fell short of winning a NC.

UConn has definitely gotten more talent than other teams, and that's what it's about, numbers. Your 2nd five many years could start for most teams.

For coaching, of course I think Geno is great coach, but I also think Tara is too. They both have strengths and weaknesses, both have had good games vs each other. Tara out coached him in KC regional (2005)?, and again in Tampa F4 and at Maples 90 game streak breaker. But the ass kicking UConn put on Stanford this year and last, was about personnel, namely guards. Maya won it San Antonio on her own. Did he make her a better player, of course, but no one was in her galaxy, same as DT.

 

[johnnyc]

Geno makes good players into great players. He makes great players into superstars. And he makes superstars into all-time greats.

Plain and simple.

This right here.

It has been said over and over that UConn's practices are like no other. We only get to see bits and pieces of that with the latest one showing Stewart practicing 'until she can't get it wrong'. It's coaching and that includes the whole staff.