I think the ACC needs to add at least one football power | The Boneyard

I think the ACC needs to add at least one football power

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I think the real reason that the ACC has stopped at 14 schools is that they need to add a football power to the conference. The additions of Pitt and Syracuse have improved ACC basketball, but neither is considered a football power. I think the ACC football schools want to add a traditional football power, which is why they are focused on ND as ND would satisfy the NC schools as well as the football schools. If ND says no, the football schools might want WVU as no B10 or SEC school is coming to the ACC and the B12 seems to have survived in the ST. The NC schools would probably be opposed to adding WVU, but the football schools may force the issue or threaten to leave for the SEC.

Read this article from Orlando today on what FSU should do.

[http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/bianchi-fsu-acc-sec.docx-20110923,0,3711432.column]
 

ctchamps

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I think the real reason that the ACC has stopped at 14 schools is that they need to add a football power to the conference. The additions of Pitt and Syracuse have improved ACC basketball, but neither is considered a football power. I think the ACC football schools want to add a traditional football power, which is why they are focused on ND as ND would satisfy the NC schools as well as the football schools. If ND says no, the football schools might want WVU as no B10 or SEC school is coming to the ACC and the B12 seems to have survived in the ST. The NC schools would probably be opposed to adding WVU, but the football schools may force the issue or threaten to leave for the SEC.

Read this article from Orlando today on what FSU should do.

[http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/bianchi-fsu-acc-sec.docx-20110923,0,3711432.column]
Not linking to article.
 

ctchamps

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Here's hoping they bolt tomorrow
I'm just wondering what the loss of FSU will mean in terms of a renegotiated ACC contract. Will ESPN continue an approximate 9 million per school or will they try to lower that number?
 

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I enjoy the notion that ND somehow brings a football powerhouse.
 
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It is a stable football conference, just not a top tier one. It is in absolutely no danger whatsoever of losing its BCS bid. Say what you want about him, Swofford isn't a complete idiot. He's been ahead of the game at every turn, despite some skeevy dealings.
 

ctchamps

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I enjoy the notion that ND somehow brings a football powerhouse.
lol Some reputations are bigger than life.
 
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Unlike college basketball, big time college football is all about tradition, history, and rivalries. Newbies like UConn have none of the above and can only offer performance and potential. There are only 2 potential ACC adds that are considered football powers nationally: WVU and ND (You could add TCU here as well.). All of the other schools have future potential.
 

ctchamps

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It is a stable football conference, just not a top tier one. It is in absolutely no danger whatsoever of losing its BCS bid. Say what you want about him, Swofford isn't a complete idiot. He's been ahead of the game at every turn, despite some skeevy dealings.
Time will tell. But at least he put the pressure on B12 and the BE and temporarily/permanently saved the ACC. After T&M started this round of change with the announcement they were leaving the B12 a lot of us including myself thought the ACC could be more vulnerable than the BE. I'll admit my failure on this one.

Jleves posted on the men's bb board that the ACC schools will get 9.6 million each this year. The contract the BE turned down recently he calculated would have given 9 million for each football BE school. With the defections of Cuse and Pitt that number will go down.

I've scratched my head before I heard these numbers when Pitt and Cuse bolted. But now I'm scratching my head more. That turned down contract (which has been rumored to have been blocked by Pitt, Rutgers and ND) was a lowball ESPN contract that had a decent chance of increasing by other networks in 18 months. The BE conference was in no way inferior to the ACC at least with media $$. So Cuse and Pitt had other reasons for bolting than $$. Most likely they thought someone else would bolt first and leave them high and dry. And Swofford was able to take advantage of this.
 
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Unlike college basketball, big time college football is all about tradition, history, and rivalries. Newbies like UConn have none of the above and can only offer performance and potential. There are only 2 potential ACC adds that are considered football powers nationally: WVU and ND (You could add TCU here as well.). All of the other schools have future potential.
Yep. But when you think about it, Miami battled their way in during the 80s. They deserve respect. Boise State is battling their way in. We can battle our way in.
 

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Time will tell. But at least he put the pressure on B12 and the BE and temporarily/permanently saved the ACC. After T&M started this round of change with the announcement they were leaving the B12 a lot of us including myself thought the ACC could be more vulnerable than the BE. I'll admit my failure on this one.

Jleves posted on the men's bb board that the ACC schools will get 9.6 million each this year. The contract the BE turned down recently he calculated would have given 9 million for each football BE school. With the defections of Cuse and Pitt that number will go down.

I've scratched my head before I heard these numbers when Pitt and Cuse bolted. But now I'm scratching my head more. That turned down contract (which has been rumored to have been blocked by Pitt, Rutgers and ND) was a lowball ESPN contract that had a decent chance of increasing by other networks in 18 months. The BE conference was in no way inferior to the ACC at least with media $$. So Cuse and Pitt had other reasons for bolting than $$. Most likely they thought someone else would bolt first and leave them high and dry. And Swofford was able to take advantage of this.
I hate to even mention this, but a poster on the NCAABBS realignment board, (imagine this forum but as an ongoing concern for the last year), claimed that the BE old guard was so put off by the demands of 2 of the newer football schools that the delicate balance of the conference hybrid was totally screwed and ultimately lead to SU and Pitt (and supposedly Uconn) looking for a way out. And now the basketball schools want to exact their revenge by only agreeing to preposterous football additions like Army.
 
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I hate to even mention this, but a poster on the NCAABBS realignment board, (imagine this forum but as an ongoing concern for the last year), claimed that the BE old guard was so put off by the demands of 2 of the newer football schools that the delicate balance of the conference hybrid was totally screwed and ultimately lead to SU and Pitt (and supposedly Uconn) looking for a way out. And now the basketball schools want to exact their revenge by only agreeing to preposterous football additions like Army.
Interesting. I'd like to know who were the schools and what the outrageous demands were. This is what I mean when the two sides have differing issues that are just too big to overcome.

Other than ND there is football power/tradition laden school that the ACC has a shot at. FSU should bolt and take NC State with them.
 
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Both the ACC and FSU are dreaming. FSU holds no power in this situation, they'll never be let into the SEC because of the U of Florida. They can bitch and whine all they want about the ACC not adding another football power or being a basketball league. They have no where to go unless they're off the reservation and think going to the Big 12 is a good idea. There are no football powers for the ACC to poach.

The ACC obviously wants Notre Dame but that won't happen, ND will remain independent until the moment they're told they must be in one of the four 16-team mega-conferences in order to get into the college football postseason. Personally I don't think we'll see that 64-team setup for years, if ever.
 

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Interesting. I'd like to know who were the schools and what the outrageous demands were. This is what I mean when the two sides have differing issues that are just too big to overcome.

Other than ND there is football power/tradition laden school that the ACC has a shot at. FSU should bolt and take NC State with them.
The poster was implying it was Louisville and USF, and particulary UL AD Jurich, who were stepping on toes and making demands at conference meetings. Supposedly the relationship between the football and basketball onlies was poisoned by this and destroyed an uneasy truce. There was a lot of (understandable) resentment of newbie schools condescending to charter members of 30 years, solely because they were BCS football affiliated.
 
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Interesting we don't here much about USF. Considering they've been playing 1A football about as long as us, and don't have Nationally recognize BBall program you'd think they'd know to keep their mouth shut. Still curious about the demands or maybe the BBall schools just wanted the FBall schools to "kiss the rings" sort of speak.
 

SubbaBub

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Interesting we don't here much about USF. Considering they've been playing 1A football about as long as us, and don't have Nationally recognize BBall program you'd think they'd know to keep their mouth shut. Still curious about the demands or maybe the BBall schools just wanted the FBall schools to "kiss the rings" sort of speak.

This is a common source of conflict, not just for college athletic conferences, but any partnership. If you bring someone in as an equal partner, don't be surprised when they operate as such. If the old CUSA schools had issues, concerns, ideas, then they had every right to bring those to the table. I wonder what the issues where? TV, expansion, facilities, a CIC-like partnership?
 
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I wonder if these same FSU guys begging to add a football power were singing the same tune then they sent their 4 loss team to a BCS Bowl...Twice.
 

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Of course, we need to remember that the college football mentality prefers tradition steeped, but mostly irrelevant, Bowls to an actual playoff system.
 

HuskyHawk

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I wonder if these same FSU guys begging to add a football power were singing the same tune then they sent their 4 loss team to a BCS Bowl...Twice.

I agree, FSU itself hasn't been a power in several years. Nor has Miami. Despite a good Seminole team this year, OU pummeled them. I think he should be careful what he wishes for. It's likely that FSU would very rarely even qualify for an SEC championship game. If anything, the SEC is overweighted with football talent, and needs some basketball help.
 

ctchamps

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I hate to even mention this, but a poster on the NCAABBS realignment board, (imagine this forum but as an ongoing concern for the last year), claimed that the BE old guard was so put off by the demands of 2 of the newer football schools that the delicate balance of the conference hybrid was totally screwed and ultimately lead to SU and Pitt (and supposedly Uconn) looking for a way out. And now the basketball schools want to exact their revenge by only agreeing to preposterous football additions like Army.

Glad you did. Most likely each and every one of us has inaccuracies with all the details, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that this set of events is the result of people with different perspectives over issues combined with people with different personalities. If two people disagree over an issue, but they have flexibility and patience and commitment to compromise, chances are pretty good that they will resolve that issue and come up with a decent solution. If one of these individuals lack these qualities than the only way there can be appeasement is if the other gives into the formers demands. This probably will create tension and resentment in the latter that eventually will cause that individual to stop agreeing and lead to the dissolution of the partnership. And if both lack those qualities, they will fight and work to destroy each other.

freescooter and others who advocated the hybrid conference was doomed to failure had a pretty good pulse on things. Things could have worked out, but the number of differences, the wide range of very important issues with dissimilar values, the large number of parties involved, and the wide range of powerful personalities, made the probability for success very low.

The tensions did not just exist between bb only vs. football schools. There were tensions with some old guard vs. some new guard football schools. There were tensions within schools between ADs and presidents or presidents and alumni. There were tensions between those schools who were athletically successful and those who weren't.

I thought freescooter's thread about which BE schools were football centric, which were bb centric and which were equally interested in both sports was a great thread. It began to identify the dissimilarity of values in a little more detail than the simpler model of football vs. bb only schools. But even that breakdown was an oversimplification of the range of differences among and within the various universities in the BE conference.

One of the things that concerns me regarding the admittance of UConn into the ACC is that the ACC has a lot of tensions amongst its members and UConn will be entering into a variation of the turmoil that existed in the BE. You can be certain that tensions exist in the SEC, the PAC and the B!G, but tensions have a way of being soothed when things are going well. And things are going very well for these three conferences at the moment. When they stop going well those tensions will come to the surface and be highlighted. They always existed but the uncomfortable environment makes people less forgiving, more irritable and therefore less compromising. Just look at this board.

IMO, the ACC, like the BE and the B12, is in the predicament of things not going well which is resulting in all the tensions coming to the surface. Within the ACC there are old guard universities, academic elitist universities, hybrid sports universities, football 1st second and third Universites, bb 1st second and third Universities, and geographically polarized Universities. I moved from CT to SC and was surprised, although not shocked, at the degree and extent people in SC still foster animosity towards the north. They don't call it the civil war here. They call it the "War of Aggression" and the "Recent Unpleasantness". Recent Unpleasantness says a lot. One hundred and fifty years later a significant part of the population can't let events go. North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia and Florida hold the same resentments. These are good people and when they get to know you they warm up to you. But they don't make the leap that many northerners can be nice. They come to the conclusion that you are one of the good ones but are the exception. And the northern states and university members have a polarized opinion about the south, and that these people are redneck, bible beater, and good ole boys driven. It doesn't take too many disagreements before people resort to their cliche, condescending feelings.

So this will be the pot and the environment UConn will be entering by going into the ACC. But instead of being an established member, with credentials and history in a conference with turmoil, they will be the red headed stepchild in a conference with turmoil.

And this is why I'm still scratching my head regarding Pitts and Cuse's decision to bolt to the ACC. There is a reason why people say it is better to stay with the Devil you know than go with the Devil you don't know. In my mind there is not enough potential reward to be gained by jumping from the BE to the ACC relative to all the tensions and turmoil that is waiting for these schools when they arrive. The reward to risk ratio doesn't meet my criteria for making such a jarring move. If the ACC were more stable, then it makes very good sense. But I believe that the instability is so extensive that even ND's inclusion in all sports including football, may not offer the conference enough benefits to allow it to be successful to the point where most of the tensions get buried.

Swofford and the ACC members have no choice. They have to hope for the white knight to come along and save them. They have nothing to lose. At the very least they are buying time. And with the right set of outcomes, such as the newly configured conference suddenly becomes very successful in football and many of the tensions I list can be held at bay, the ACC may survive. Otherwise it will implode like the B12 and the BE.
 

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The formation of Northern and Southern divisions in a 16 team ACC would help address the split of philosophies and culture you have described. Although 1or 2 southern schools (VT and Miami?) would have to slide to the northern division. If Cuse and Pitt think Duke is coming to play hoops on their campuses every year they can think dreaming. I would think the ACC would go back to its basketball roots and have round robin schedules within divisions, with just a couple of cross-over games. This would bring back the flavor the regular season has been missing for its fans. And the ACC tourney will never be held north of DC.
 
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The formation of Northern and Southern divisions in a 16 team ACC would help address the split of philosophies and culture you have described. Although 1or 2 southern schools (VT and Miami?) would have to slide to the northern division. If Cuse and Pitt think Duke is coming to play hoops on their campuses every year they can think dreaming. I would think the ACC would go back to its basketball roots and have round robin schedules within divisions, with just a couple of cross-over games. This would bring back the flavor the regular season has been missing for its fans. And the ACC tourney will never be held north of DC.

Forget FB for a minute. The ACC could accomplish what you state with 4 pods should it go to 16. Each pod is Home and Home and then you play everyone else once, rotating yearly. That's 18 games. In this situation one pod is obviously includes (Duke and UNC).
 
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