I hope ESPN is happy with what they did to hoops

[HuskyHawk]

Did you miss the part where I called it a "funny" argument?

And, you sure Creighton isn't an autobid team? Look at their schedule.

They won the MVC, but Lunardi has the team they beat, Wichita State in as a lock. So they aren't from a single bid conference like the others. Memphis in contrast will likely be the only CUSA team.

 

[upstater]

The thing I love about these three weeks, is that people actually give a crap about schools like "Creighton" and "Valparaiso"

I've been wondering about this the last several years, as I watched Creighton get ranked. This school hasn't done a thing in a great many decades. And people suddenly know who they are.

 

[upstater]

They won the MVC, but Lunardi has the team they beat, Wichita State in as a lock. So they aren't from a single bid conference like the others. Memphis in contrast will likely be the only CUSA team.

I was joking when I mentioned Stony Brook et al. I even wrote that.

 

[ZooCougar]

I've been wondering about this the last several years, as I watched Creighton get ranked. This school hasn't done a thing in a great many decades. And people suddenly know who they are.

And most people still have no idea where in flyover country it resides. I guessed Iowa, I also though Valpo was somewhere in some godforsaken town Illinoplace. It's actually in Indianoplace.

 

[Husky25]

I think ESPN has helped to "kill" hoops in a more profound/different way - not via CR but rather through over-saturation of the product. I think most fans - even in "basketball-crazed" areas - are tiring of it via elongated seasons that now have pre-season tourneys (yawners for the most part) and more and more and more and more games on tv. By the time folks get to March, it is kind of white noise and unless your team makes a deep run into the tourney or your bracket pool is winnable people are paying less attention to hoops at that time of year as well. Football (with its fewer game schedules) is replacing other sports that have many more games per season (i.e. basketball, baseball, and hockey) as the sport to watch (and I think there are societal reasons for this as well). Things might cycle back to basketball being more popular than it is now but I think that will be a long time coming.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure I agree. It's not like the NCAA is a professional league trying to expand into ill-fitting markets (**Cough** NHL**cough** Columbus, Ohio**). The games are already being played. The networks are simplying making more available via various media outlets (HDTV, I-pad, smartphone) and one no longer is required to be in attendance. I think the environments at these tournements games has less to do with over saturation of the overall product and more to do with the In-arena vs. at home experience (I've made this argument before).

At the end of the day, college sports is entertainment and John Q. Consumer is concerned now (and since 2008)more than ever with the cost-benefit of that entertainment. I'd venture that most fans are less concerned with saturation because they are able to sift through the various offerings in order to find the desired program.

 

[HuskyHawk]

And most people still have no idea where in flyover country it resides. I guessed Iowa, I also though Valpo was somewhere in some godforsaken town Illinoplace. It's actually in Indianoplace.

Creighton is a little better known, because they host the college world series every year. They average over 16,000 a game for basketball. The MVC isn't a bad league. Wichita State is often decent, and their baseball is very good.

 

[UCFBfan]

Creighton is a little better known, because they host the college world series every year. They average over 16,000 a game for basketball. The MVC isn't a bad league. Wichita State is often decent, and their baseball is very good.

I thought the CWS was in Omaha? Is that where Creighton is? Clearly they aren't that well known....

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[nelsonmuntz]

CTFAN raises a really good point I think. The problem of just the ever lengthening of the season with meaningless games really contributes to the problem. If you go back to 1989-90, the Dream Season, UConn played its first game on thanksgiving weekend at a pre-season tournament, the Great Alaskan Shootout. The NCAA limited teams to 1 "pre-season" Tournament every 4 years I think. Most teams didn't start until after Thanksgiving. This year, UConn's first game was November 9 and they had already played 5 regular season games BEFORE the 1989 team had played 1. I think this is contributing to basketball's loss of stature vs football in particular, because with a season that so dramatically overlaps and with so many games that are pretty meaningless, its hard to really get too pumped for Stony Brook or Maryland Eastern Shore. And while football has its cupcake games, too, there aren't as many and at east once you start conference play, every game means something.

Nope. Football plays more cupcake games because there are no consequences for playing cupcakes in football. Since there is no tournament who cares about SOS?

Football is just a more popular game right now, although I think that popularity is on the verge of falling off a cliff (more on that later). Structurally, basketball is far superior, which is why basketball's postseason destroys footballs in interest and ratings. There are about 3 bowl games a year, all played in prime time without any CFB or NFL competition at the same time, that outdraw the Sweet 16, which plays head to head against other Sweet 16 games and about 10 NBA games.

 

[whaler11]

Not knowing where Creighton is shows more about the person than it does the school. They have had a solid program for a long time and draw huge crowds.

 

[hthusky74]

I thought the CWS was in Omaha? Is that where Creighton is? Clearly they aren't that well known....

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They are in Omaha and in addition to the university, have a quality medical center. Their soccer team is usually ranked and if for no other reason, they should be known as the school that produced one of the greatest baseball players of all time--Bob Gibson.

 

[Chief00]

There are pluses and minuSes but over-all I agree - MBB is worse off, It is ironic.

 

[UCFBfan]

Not knowing where Creighton is shows more about the person than it does the school. They have had a solid program for a long time and draw huge crowds.

I knew their basketball team as the team that always pulled off the upsets in the Tourney. Not knowing they were in Omaha or that they're the hosts of the CWS does not mean a thing.

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[ZooCougar]

Not knowing where Creighton is shows more about the person than it does the school. They have had a solid program for a long time and draw huge crowds.

Mmmmm if anything it just shows that you don't know or care all that much about mid majors or basketball in general.

I've heard of Creighton tons of times, I never cared to find out where it is. It's somewhere between LA and NY.

 

[ZooCougar]

I knew their basketball team as the team that always pulled off the upsets in the Tourney. Not knowing they were in Omaha or that they're the hosts of the CWS does not mean a thing.

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Right. CWS is totally niche. It's filler.

 

[upstater]

I knew their basketball team as the team that always pulled off the upsets in the Tourney. Not knowing they were in Omaha or that they're the hosts of the CWS does not mean a thing.

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Huh?

I just checked their tourney record.

13 times since 1975.

Constant first round losses.

They've never made the Sweet 16 in the 13 times since 1975 that they made it to the NCAAs.

Are you thinking Valpo? They have some good showings.

 

[huskymedic]

I knew their basketball team as the team that always pulled off the upsets in the Tourney. Not knowing they were in Omaha or that they're the hosts of the CWS does not mean a thing.

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You are parly vindicated ... While Creighton is in Omaha, the City owns the TD Amertrade stadium that the CWS is played in. They allow Creighton to play home baseball games there but Creighton does not "host" the tournament. The CWS is run by a non-profit agency.

 

[UCFBfan]

Huh?

I just checked their tourney record.

13 times since 1995.

Constant first round losses.

They've never made the Sweet 16 in the 13 times since 1975 that they made it to the NCAAs.

Are you thinking Valpo? They have some good showings.

No I wasn't thinking of Valpo but now I wanna know who I was thinking of.....crap....I just looked at the same thing and they haven't had many victories....I was only referring to the first round also. Never said they made it far....I'll have to think about this.....wait a second...I really don't care that much about Creighton to be honest so I'm not really going tow aste much time on it.....

 

[upstater]

No I wasn't thinking of Valpo but now I wanna know who I was thinking of.....crap....I just looked at the same thing and they haven't had many victories....I was only referring to the first round also. Never said they made it far....I'll have to think about this.....wait a second...I really don't care that much about Creighton to be honest so I'm not really going tow aste much time on it.....

LOL......

 

[The Funster]

This is all short-term thinking.

You have to wait to see the final product.

If a few southern schools left the ACC and UConn joined, then Fox's purchase of the BE would be all hollowed out. The ACC tourney would move to NY, and people would say the northeast is locked up for basketball by the ACC.

Georgetown would be in mourning.

Yeah but when that happens nelsonmuntz will just tell us all that was inevitable. He's the King Of Revisionist History.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yeah but when that happens nelsonmuntz will just tell us all that was inevitable. He's the King Of Revisionist History.

Link?

 

[whaler11]

Mmmmm if anything it just shows that you don't know or care all that much about mid majors or basketball in general.

I've heard of Creighton tons of times, I never cared to find out where it is. It's somewhere between LA and NY.

Which sort of makes my point that if you don't know where Creighton is and yet want to blab about them on a message board it isn't THEIR fault that you or others feel the need to weigh in on subjects on which you have no interest or knowledge.

 

[zls44]

Structurally, basketball is far superior, which is why basketball's postseason destroys footballs in interest and ratings. There are about 3 bowl games a year, all played in prime time without any CFB or NFL competition at the same time, that outdraw the Sweet 16, which plays head to head against other Sweet 16 games and about 10 NBA games.

I think the CFB playoff ratings are going to obliterate this theory.

 

[freescooter]

Nope. Football plays more cupcake games because there are no consequences for playing cupcakes in football. Since there is no tournament who cares about SOS?

Football is just a more popular game right now, although I think that popularity is on the verge of falling off a cliff (more on that later). Structurally, basketball is far superior, which is why basketball's postseason destroys footballs in interest and ratings. There are about 3 bowl games a year, all played in prime time without any CFB or NFL competition at the same time, that outdraw the Sweet 16, which plays head to head against other Sweet 16 games and about 10 NBA games.

Not true at all. And it will become less true as the playoff system becomes more significant. But all of that is interesting to discuss, but the bottom line is that ESPN doesn't really care what it did to college basketball. While I wouldn't go so far as to say its irrelevant, it is of minor consequence to them, for 2 reasons. First is that football is just more popular. It drives the bus to use the old cliche. But secondly, at the point where basketball does take over, ESPN gets left behind. Then it becomes CBS's show. Regular season basketball is just too many games, few meaningful ones until maybe February, certainly none before January.

 

[ZooCougar]

Which sort of makes my point that if you don't know where Creighton is and yet want to blab about them on a message board it isn't THEIR fault that you or others feel the need to weigh in on subjects on which you have no interest or knowledge.

Exactly. It's really not their fault that they don't matter.

 

[Husky25]

Nope. Football plays more cupcake games because there are no consequences for playing cupcakes in football. Since there is no tournament who cares about SOS?

Football is just a more popular game right now, although I think that popularity is on the verge of falling off a cliff (more on that later). Structurally, basketball is far superior, which is why basketball's postseason destroys footballs in interest and ratings. There are about 3 bowl games a year, all played in prime time without any CFB or NFL competition at the same time, that outdraw the Sweet 16, which plays head to head against other Sweet 16 games and about 10 NBA games.

Why do you feel that football's popularity is about to fall off a cliff? It is instituting a 4 team playoff, and when the powers-that-be see all the $$ roll in, there is little doubt that it will go to an 8+ team format. There are two reasons the current Bowl structure fails: 1) Too many bowl games between mediocre teams with no history that mean nothing to the respective fan bases or locales in which they are played. 2) HDTV. The In-home experience is far more cost effective and adaptable to everyday life (and sometime more enjoyable) than the in-stadium experience. Related, all the bowl games are on TV. It's not as big of a deal anymore to say that you were there.