OT: European Soccer Super League

[XLCenterFan]

This has been floated in golf. A “super tour” or something of the like with the top, top players. Pretty much every single player said “no way, no thanks.”

 

[Chuck]

First to say, "Take it to the Soccer Board!" ?

This is greedy of the big clubs, but they are businesses, so in the end they should do what's best for them. I don't know that is what's best for them (considering all of the hate that this is immediately getting). Yet FIFA is the proverbial glass house and their reps should stop throwing stones about "greed" and "snakes" making these decisions. Can their be a more corrupt organization that always lined their own pockets (organization and individual) over the good of the game.

If this super league replaces each team's home league, then I think all involved will regret this decision. It will be exciting for a few years if you are Man U playing Real Madrid instead of that year's relegation-slot English team, but that'll get old when you lose all of your local excitement. Ask Syracuse how awesome it is to play Wake Forest over UConn.

But if this replaces Champion's League, it's greedy, but it's not the end of the world. It would hurt a team like West Ham that could make Champion's League next year. Champion's League would become more like Europa. That's why I personally preferred the expanded Champion's League though. It acknowledged that the big clubs are different (whether people like it or not), but also allowed smaller clubs to bust in at least temporarily. There would still be problems, like the big teams not prioritizing league games because they wouldn't need to reach 4th place (EPL), but stuff changes.

 

[Adios]

The price of Juventus stock going up says everything that needs to be said. Dortmund will probably be replaced by Leipzig as a "founding club".

 

[CardiacAndre7]

This is shameful. Gonna be hard to be a Liverpool fan from now on.

 

[Icculus]

I think that there's less than 10% chance that this comes to fruition. This isn't like a college team changing conference. It's a much deeper thing than that. I've been a Chelsea fan for 10-plus years & I've never seen the fan-base so riled up and angered. Many are claiming that they will stop supporting the team (I would be among them) and yeah, some of that might be "all talk", but I suspect that a lot of it is genuine.
Sports do not occur in a vacuum, it requires fans to care about you. That's the engine that drives the whole train. If you mess that up, the train sputters.

 

[bendm]

@bendm @djct1999 isn't Olympic soccer played with countries "B" teams mostly? I don't recall the Olympic's soccer tournament generating nearly as much buzz as a World Cup, and that has country pride on the line. I'd assume most people don't care because the top players from each country aren't participating, meaning the gold medal is just a watered down trophy.

Edit: to tie it back to basketball. Would there be as much interest in watching the USA Men's Olympic basketball team compete if LeBron, KD, Irving, etc. didn't play and just a bunch of "B" team guys wearing USA a jersey?

let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy

 

[McLovin]

let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy

Fair enough. I don't watch soccer with any rooting interest so this doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I'll watch the WC and Euros because its always fun to see the big time international matches IMO.

Y'all were going back and forth about how this would / wouldn't impact the game at a national competition level and figured I'd toss the most comparable example (Olympic soccer) to what this could do to the national competitions.

 

[McLovin]

This has been floated in golf. A “super tour” or something of the like with the top, top players. Pretty much every single player said “no way, no thanks.”

How is that different than WGC & the FedEx Cup? Personally, I'd love to see a "super tour" that featured more high stake matches in Europe, South Africa, Australia & Japan where many of the top international players are from.

 

[SubbaBub]

FIFA has a stake in all the leagues and this would be competition and take money out of their pocket. I think this would hold up in court because FIFA controls the World Cup so they can set the rules of participation.

FIFA wants to get paid is really all it is. I think this super league would ruin European football competition long term.

This, but you have one thing backwards. This is the big clubs wanting a bigger cut from FIFA and UEFA.

As for legality, it might vary from nation to nation but since domestic leagues have strict controls on them over how many foreign players are allowed and the FA's are licensed by the government. They can absolutely deny work permits and tax breaks to players and teams that participate, even if they can't ban them outright, which I think they could.

 

[SubbaBub]

How is that different than WGC & the FedEx Cup? Personally, I'd love to see a "super tour" that featured more high stake matches in Europe, South Africa, Australia & Japan where many of the top international players are from.

You already have this in golf. The PGA is the super league and with a few exceptions most of the top players play in it full time. On top of that you have the Masters, US Open (USGA) and British Open (R&A) which aren't strictly PGA events. The Masters is actually an official event on 3 tours, PGA, Euro, and Japanese.

 

[hardcorehusky]

I am a long long time Liverpool supporter- I have no problem with the Super League. I would rather rake in the money in a league playing Juventus as opposed to Burnley. As a UConn fan, we see what the other side of the coin is, and it isn't pretty.

 

[Chuck]

let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy

Follow-up question. This isn't me picking a fight. My son and I have gotten into international soccer for a while. Primarily EPL. He's a big Man U guys (because his first soccer coach was a fanatic). I have less rooting interest. I've come to enjoy the set-up of the league with relegation. I didn't love a lack of playoff because the champion is generally a foregone conclusion a month or two before the end of the season. But the Champion's League and Europa League qualification helps.

Other than the qualification slots changing, what's the big difference in what is proposed? The big 5 wouldn't share in their new league profits, so that's a hit. They'd need to revise Champion's League qualifications and you could have a team totally mailing it in during a difficult season because they won't lose their spot in the new league.

But I'm clearly missing the death knell that everyone assumes this would result in. This wouldn't be like the top of the P5 leaving their leagues. It would be like those teams setting up their own football playoff. It kind of sucks for the other teams knowing they couldn't make that playoff, but it's only a dream for them to make it now.

 

[bendm]

Other than the qualification slots changing, what's the big difference in what is proposed? The big 5 wouldn't share in their new league profits, so that's a hit. They'd need to revise Champion's League qualifications and you could have a team totally mailing it in during a difficult season because they won't lose their spot in the new league.

It kind of sucks for the other teams knowing they couldn't make that playoff, but it's only a dream for them to make it now.

The ESL would destroy football as we know it – it’s almost as if they don’t care | David Baddiel

We all knew that eventually, money and corporate interest would mutate the game at the top level into something approaching Rollerball

www.theguardian.com

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I am a long long time Liverpool supporter- I have no problem with the Super League. I would rather rake in the money in a league playing Juventus as opposed to Burnley. As a UConn fan, we see what the other side of the coin is, and it isn't pretty.

I am a Liverpool fan as well and find this atrocious. It defeats the whole point of earning your respect and your spot, belittles the english league pyramid, and pretty much tells smaller clubs to f off. Greed and naivety runs deep.

 

[LIuconn]

The PGL is/was the pro golf equivalent
The PGA tour is not a "super tour" but it is the EPL equivalent

 

[CCSUblue]

Perez said Bayern and PSG weren't even invited, what a joke. Let's have a super league but not invite some of the best teams in Europe...Ok.

6 premiership teams but none from Germany or France. How super can you be when you're missing an arm and a leg?

 

[ColchVEGAS]

This, but you have one thing backwards. This is the big clubs wanting a bigger cut from FIFA and UEFA.

As for legality, it might vary from nation to nation but since domestic leagues have strict controls on them over how many foreign players are allowed and the FA's are licensed by the government. They can absolutely deny work permits and tax breaks to players and teams that participate, even if they can't ban them outright, which I think they could.

What I meant by FIFA wanting their cut is if the Super League is truly being set up as an alternative tournament to the Champions League FIFA making the threats they are making is solely due to them losing money, not for keeping the beautiful game going. I agree with everything you said though.

 

[aburks41]

Perez said Bayern and PSG weren't even invited, what a joke. Let's have a super league but not invite some of the best teams in Europe...Ok.

6 premiership teams but none from Germany or France. How super can you be when you're missing an arm and a leg?

PSG and Bayern both came out and said they rejected the invite (along with Dortmund).

 

[aburks41]

Since 2000, 56 of the 60 league titles from Italy/Spain/England have been won by the Super League teams. It seems to me that the best way to restore balance and competitiveness to those domestic leagues is actually by letting those clubs walk away and form their own league.

The other solution is implementing a salary cap...which would likely result in those same top clubs wanting their own league to avoid it lol.

 

[UCTitleTown]

I'm a huge soccer guy. As long as FIFA maintains a hard line, this will never hold up.

 

[zls44]

 

[Waquoit]

The EPL would cease to exist if they banned their top 6 clubs. They have absolutely zero leverage over them and the clubs know it

That’s not true. Games would go on and fans would still support their teams. TV rights would bring in less money, I suppose.

 

[shizzle787]

I get the feeling the German and French clubs are waiting to see how this plays out. If the league does go forward you better believe the top clubs will be looking to be apart of this, the money will be too much to turn down.

The interesting thing will be the 5 teams that can be relegated. How will this be decided? If FIFA and the domestic leagues begin banning teams for participating in the Super League and the 5 teams are rotating in and out will the domestic leagues accept them back if they are relegated? What will happen if they do not? Another league will have to be formed for the teams that cannot play domestically and have been relegated from the Super League.

For the first time ever, I do believe the super league will happen. Usually, the super league is floated as a negotiating tactic by the big clubs to get what they what in champions league negotiations but they announced this after the champions league negotiations were completed. It is terrible idea centered around greed but it will happen.

With regards to the other five teams, my guess is that the 54 domestic champions (highest-ranked non-ESL club in the top five leagues) will compete in a qualifying tournament to determine the five spots so that part of the competition will be meritocratic. Realistically this means that Leicester (3rd in the Premier League) would get the EPL's qualifying spot and face a potential path of say Zalgiris (Lithuania), Cracovia (Poland), and Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraine) to get in. Highly doable.

P.S. PSG, Dortmund, and Bayern will all cave.

Also, the SL clubs will remain in their domestic leagues and FIFA's threat to ban players from the World Cup will be in vain legally.

 

[djct1999]

let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy

I think your reaction is genuine and similar to most "Big Six" supporters. But I disagree about one thing. The outrage is real, however, I will bet you a 12 pack of Rolling Rock that City's first home girl, vs Barcelona or Juventus or Real or whovever would be sold out. As mad as most City fans are, they will still show up, support their team, and move on. Although I agree they may bitch about it for the next 100 years.

 

[Huskymagic]

This proposal is a disgrace. However, there is no loyalty, respect, and values in hyper vulture global capitalism. Monopolies created at the expense of the regular Joe serfs. The ugly masks are being taken off. Rich getting richer. These type of garbage making this announcement in a worldwide pandemic is even more malicious.

Capitalist greed and selfishness knows no bounds. Actions like this will hasten the demise of the existing order. No respect for values, traditions, culture, and for individual nations.

This is the same reason I am against amateur basketball mercenaries, and the same disgraceful actions taking place in American sports and every other sphere.

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