Delany

[Fishy]

AAU issue will be addressed soon, as will our "mediocre" football. Our biggest hurdle will be who is #16 (possible partners...Kansas, Mizzou, Georgia Tech, Virginia). Let's see how the Maryland lawsuit turns out....

That said, look for a "black swan" scenario within the next 5 years, which is likely to give UConn more, not less, options.

The AAU and the 16th member are huge hurdles.

The AAU, if it ever happens, could be a decade off - we're really, really low on some of their admission metrics. And then, the 16th team is.....who?

 

[lv99]

Right now, a big impediment for either the Big 10 or ACC to invite us is that they really need to invite a 16th member at the same time because the current rules for a championship game require you, for practical purposes, to have an even number of members. So first the problem is you need to find two, not just one, schools that bring value, and second, the problem is even if there were two schools left that could add value, they still wouldn't be invited (unless one was Notre Dame) because it wouldn't kind of force Notre Dame into the other conference. Since none of the P5 want Notre Dame to join a someone else's conference, the Big 10 and ACC will be stuck at 14 forever ...

... unless the rules for championship games change which allow for an odd number schools. In this case, our fortunes could reversed. There would no longer be the problem of having 15 schools in a conference. Instead of avoiding inviting us so that they don't get stuck at 15 until the unlikely day when Notre Dame can be coerced into a conference, there would be competition for us as the best school left on the board in the northeast with the last spot still open for Notre Dame.

The ACC is trying to get the championship game rules amended so that an odd number would work. The decision could come as early as April.

 

[btstimpy]

That's a great point about ODU. I remember that last year they would bury other teams in football. I think they scored something like 60+ points against one team. I didn't realize ODU was competitive in basketball. I'll start keeping track of them. I would much prefer UCONN to be in a regional conference until they get into a P5. Also, I guess VCU will remain in the A-10 until they establish a football program. It's difficult not to follow VCU if one lives in Richmond, even if you didn't go to school there.

ODU isn't ready to win the ACC in men's basketball, but they can play. NCAA appearances in 1980, 1982, 1985, 1986, 1992, 1995, 1997, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2011. Round of 32 in 1986, 1995, 2010. And like I mentioned Jeff Jones is a good coach who can help quite a bit there. He's in his first year there. They will finish with about a 0.500 record this year after a bad season last year and a coaching change. In football they have just transitioned to FBS. They have work to do there, and they are off to a decent start. Last year they played Pitt tough, but they got beat by UNC kind of bad. UNC beat UVA kind of bad too, so I'm not sure that is a good indicator.

And yes VCU has created a lot of excitement locally. They just don't have football.

 

[btstimpy]

Right now, a big impediment for either the Big 10 or ACC to invite us is that they really need to invite a 16th member at the same time because the current rules for a championship game require you, for practical purposes, to have an even number of members. So first the problem is you need to find two, not just one, schools that bring value, and second, the problem is even if there were two schools left that could add value, they still wouldn't be invited (unless one was Notre Dame) because it wouldn't kind of force Notre Dame into the other conference. Since none of the P5 want Notre Dame to join a someone else's conference, the Big 10 and ACC will be stuck at 14 forever ...

... unless the rules for championship games change which allow for an odd number schools. In this case, our fortunes could reversed. There would no longer be the problem of having 15 schools in a conference. Instead of avoiding inviting us so that they don't get stuck at 15 until the unlikely day when Notre Dame can be coerced into a conference, there would be competition for us as the best school left on the board in the northeast with the last spot still open for Notre Dame.

The ACC is trying to get the championship game rules amended so that an odd number would work. The decision could come as early as April.

The issue for the ACC is that for now the ACC doesn't want a 17th member, and we already have 15 for everything except football. So this rule change would open up some possibilities for us if we can have more flexibility with divisions and the methods for choosing the pairing for the Championship in football. But the ACC is not focused on expansion while we integrate Notre Dame football into the schedules and deal with the Louisville for Maryland swap. Plus the changes at the NCAA and finalizing the Playoffs is a distraction.

The Big Ten seems to be preoccupied with Maryland and Rutgers integration, and they probably won't be prompted to even consider more expansion until they get into renewing their Tier 1 contracts in 2016. This is at least what Jim Delaney is saying.

 

[Stinger92860]

The AAU and the 16th member are huge hurdles.

The AAU, if it ever happens, could be a decade off - we're really, really low on some of their admission metrics. And then, the 16th team is.....who?

I was on the aau website the other day trying to understand where we rank. Does anyone know the x number of metrics, where we rank within each category and what UConn is doing to address gaps? Do we need to hit every metric or is their a total view scoring model? How much does politics play?

 

[Pat125]

... unless the rules for championship games change which allow for an odd number schools. In this case, our fortunes could reversed. There would no longer be the problem of having 15 schools in a conference. Instead of avoiding inviting us so that they don't get stuck at 15 until the unlikely day when Notre Dame can be coerced into a conference, there would be competition for us as the best school left on the board in the northeast with the last spot still open for Notre Dame.

The ACC is trying to get the championship game rules amended so that an odd number would work. The decision could come as early as April.

Doesn't the MAC have 13 teams and a championship game? So I don' t think a rule change is needed there. If the ACC added a 15th full member and wanted to have three divisions with a playoff structure, the rules would need to be changed. This could work well with the current conference structure and allow ND to become a full member down the road.

 

[billybud]

1....none of the conference teams now under a GOR will be changing conferences any time soon. Count them out in CR.

2....sixteen seems to be the "magic number" for maximum manageable conference size.

3....If the ACC petition succeeds, pods could change the way conference play is organized and change the geographic dynamics of CR.

4....Conferences will augment by CR for differing reasons and have differing needs.
........Big 12 may want to get to a similar size/configuration as rest of P5. Maybe pod in east?
........ACC may still be looking to build up football...and also be still awaiting on Godot.
........Big Ten may want to make eastern pod...expand east.

5....The media money must be there to make an addition a gain rather than a revenue cutter to each individual conference member.

 

[CTGoonie]

The AAU and the 16th member are huge hurdles.

The AAU, if it ever happens, could be a decade off - we're really, really low on some of their admission metrics. And then, the 16th team is.....who?

Why does the B1G need an even number? With that many you won't be playing every team in bball twice anyway. In FB you can have three pods of 5 and have a four team playoff with the pod winners and 1 at-large.

 

[NickyNewark]

1....none of the conference teams now under a GOR will be changing conferences any time soon. Count them out in CR.

2....sixteen seems to be the "magic number" for maximum manageable conference size.

3....If the ACC petition succeeds, pods could change the way conference play is organized and change the geographic dynamics of CR.

4....Conferences will augment by CR for differing reasons and have differing needs.
...Big 12 may want to get to a similar size/configuration as rest of P5. Maybe pod in east?
...ACC may still be looking to build up football...and also be still awaiting on Godot.
...Big Ten may want to make eastern pod...expand east.

5....The media money must be there to make an addition a gain rather than a revenue cutter to each individual conference member.

Yeah billy I agree with most of what you say here. I think the Big12 NEEDS to expand there profile and an NY/NJ/Conn presense would be smart but do those in Texas with big ego's and provincial minds care to admit it? If Texas/Oklahoma(Okla's Castiglione wanted RU so he has some national savvy) would accept 1 of UCF or USF and a UConn and/or Temple the B12 FB scope/viewership would become more national in perception.Also 16 sounds about right as a workable number for conference size. Any move or rumbling should help push UConn into the P5 as all thats holding people back is small minds who think "if we need them they'll be there" attitudes in CR IMO. My guess? B1G. Its certainly the best fit.

 

[CTGoonie]

I would be very receptive to adding Uconn to the B1G. IMO they are the most obvious P5 Team not currently in a P5 Conference. In some ways they fit the profile for a B1G Institution better than some of the teams currently in the conference.

Pros:
Flagship state school
Good academics
Furthers eastern exposure
Great basketball
Ice Hockey
Good Olympic Sports

Cons:
Small state
Not AAU
Where do you go for # 16?
Mediocre Football
No wrestling(personal pet peeve)
Addition does nothing to address the perception of the conference being weak in football.

It it were up to me UCONN would eventually get an invite. Their inclusion would further assist the conference in tackling NYC and shift the focus a little more to the east. That said my biggest question/concern is who do you go after for #16? A team like Mizzou makes a lot of sense, but with The SECN on the horizon that seems highly unlikely.

Re: State population. If you're going to look at populations you also have to look at how that population is split. Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, PA etc. all split their respective fandoms with multiple D1 schools. CT has 3.5m which is near the bottom of B1G state populations but there is no in-state competition. 100% of 3.5m is on par with 50% of the B1G states populations.

 

[NickyNewark]

Why does the B1G need an even number? With that many you won't be playing every team in bball twice anyway. In FB you can have three pods of 5 and have a four team playoff with the pod winners and 1 at-large.

I dont think its "etched in stone" as they've had odd numbers before for temporary periods. If anyone else offers or even considers UConn the B1G will immediately convene IMO. I bet behind the scenes thing are going on quietly but steadily.

 

[UConn Dan]

Why does the B1G need an even number? With that many you won't be playing every team in bball twice anyway. In FB you can have three pods of 5 and have a four team playoff with the pod winners and 1 at-large.

NCAA rule requires all conferences with 12 or more teams to be split into two equal divisions with each division champion meeting in a conference championship game.

Now John Swofford and the ACC are petitioning for a rule change that would allow conferences to determine how they setup their divisions (or no divisions) and how they pick up champion.

 

[UConn Dan]

I dont think its "etched in stone" as they've had odd numbers before for temporary periods. If anyone else offers or even considers UConn the B1G will immediately convene IMO. I bet behind the scenes thing are going on quietly but steadily.

B1G had 11 teams (see my response to goodie above).

 

[billybud]

B1G had 11 teams (see my response to goodie above).

They did...but had no CCG when they were at 11.

The ACC also was at 11...and the NCAA denied them a CCG without 12...so they added.

 

[clmssun]

Admit UCONN as a 15th member today but partial football member (similar to the ND/ACC deal). Instant boost to basketball profile and eastern exposure. Another chance for northeast B1G alums to see their schools play (if they can't get to Rutgers). B1G teams (5-6 per year) would help UCONN football boost its profile with recruiting and, eventually, get to a point that it will be competitive. Then in 2020, everyone can revisit when some of these GORs expire and find another full time partner to get UCONN a full membership (and revenue split).

I would love for this to happen, but I see it as extremely unlikely. Notre Dame got their deal with the ACC because it significantly benefited both parties. While UConn's additional New York plus new New England exposure should be good for B1G, I have concerns as to the benefit (to B1G) of adding a few UConn-B1G football games per year. The frustrating conundrum here is that it is UConn's basketball that should be attractive to B1G under any circumstance -- full or partial membership -- but the B1G's present athletic concerns/"needs"/weaknesses are on the football front... just as with UConn.

 

[Pat125]

NCAA rule requires all conferences with 12 or more teams to be split into two equal divisions with each division champion meeting in a conference championship game.

Now John Swofford and the ACC are petitioning for a rule change that would allow conferences to determine how they setup their divisions (or no divisions) and how they pick up champion.

Does the MAC have a special exception with 13 teams?

 

[clmssun]

Does the MAC have a special exception with 13 teams?

Yes. 13 teams is a mess. By exception, the NCAA allows them to have 1 6-team division and 1-7 team division, and then have the champions meet for the conference championship. Unlike 12- or 14-team conferences with two divisions, two divisions in a 13-team conference mean all the teams in each division do not play all the teams in their respective division.

 

[UConnJim]

Yes. 13 teams is a mess. By exception, the NCAA allows them to have 1 6-team division and 1-7 team division, and then have the champions meet for the conference championship. Unlike 12- or 14-team conferences with two divisions, two divisions in a 13-team conference mean all the teams in each division do not play all the teams in their respective division.

I don't think this is correct. There is no rule against a 13 or 15 team conference, but the current NCAA rules state that there must be 2 divisions in which all teams in each division play each other every year in order to have a conference championship. The MAC violates the rule about all teams in each division playing each other every year. It's not clear that the MAC has an NCAA exemption to this rule as it seems like both the MAC and the NCAA are violating the rule.

Changing the rules would open the door to further conference expansion. With the current rules of playing every team in your division every year, if enforced, 14 team conferences are the realistic largest conference size.

 

[UConn Dan]

I had read that the MAC received an exemption because Temple left ( it's not that they added and purposely went to 13). I'm not sure if permanent, but assuming the MAC will not add because they may have another team poached at some point.

 

[UConnJim]

I had read that the MAC received an exemption because Temple left ( it's not that they added and purposely went to 13). I'm not sure if permanent, but assuming the MAC will not add because they may have another team poached at some point.

When Temple joined the MAC in 2007, they were the 13th member, so the MAC had 13 from 2007 to 2011. Back to 13 when Temple left and UMass was added.

 

[lv99]

I found a good article on this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-fo...-13-team-schedule-a-virtual-impossibility.php

It turns out the MAC is breaking the rules but they just aren't being enforced.

 

[clmssun]

I don't think this is correct. There is no rule against a 13 or 15 team conference, but the current NCAA rules state that there must be 2 divisions in which all teams in each division play each other every year in order to have a conference championship. The MAC violates the rule about all teams in each division playing each other every year. It's not clear that the MAC has an NCAA exemption to this rule as it seems like both the MAC and the NCAA are violating the rule.

Changing the rules would open the door to further conference expansion. With the current rules of playing every team in your division every year, if enforced, 14 team conferences are the realistic largest conference size.

Correct. There is no rule against 13-team conferences. The rule is supposed to preclude divisional alignment (with division champions meeting in a championship game) wherein all teams in said divisions do not play one another. If the MAC eliminated their divisions (and their championship game matching up the champions of the two divisions) and played as 13-teams (who play 8 or 9 "other" teams) in a unified league, they'd be fine -- but they would be forbidden from playing a championship game (under strict enforcement of current rules) if they had only one collection of 13 teams. (As it is now, their "divisional" breakdown is just semantics, as the teams do simply play 8 or 9 "other" teams irrespective of divisional placement).

The ACC challenging the premise that a football championship must match up the champions of two divisions. The ACC wants the option to have football be one collection of 14 teams -- just as ACC basketball is one collection of 15 teams -- wherein the league plays 8 or 9 "other" teams from the collection, with no "divisional" nomenclature.

 

[UConn Dan]

When Temple joined the MAC in 2007, they were the 13th member, so the MAC had 13 from 2007 to 2011. Back to 13 when Temple left and UMass was added.

i stand corrected.

 

[JayRU09]

I like the idea of having UCONN be a 'member in waiting' and giving them some 4-5 Big Ten football games a year and full membership in everything else. Give you guys 5-10 years to put a plan together to make the Rent more suitable for conference play and then see if there's another school ready to join. Would help out men's and women's basketball tremendously while keeping UCONN relevant in football.

UCONN's not Notre Dame for football in terms of drawing eyeballs, but if the B1G wants to easily upgrade basketball and give enough incentive for a school to get up to standards with football facilities and a shot at getting into the AAU, maybe a 10+ year trial period would be a good bet.

Beats betting on the American imo.

 

[SubbaBub]

I like the idea of having UCONN be a 'member in waiting' and giving them some 4-5 Big Ten football games a year and full membership in everything else. Give you guys 5-10 years to put a plan together to make the Rent more suitable for conference play and then see if there's another school ready to join. Would help out men's and women's basketball tremendously while keeping UCONN relevant in football.

UCONN's not Notre Dame for football in terms of drawing eyeballs, but if the B1G wants to easily upgrade basketball and give enough incentive for a school to get up to standards with football facilities and a shot at getting into the AAU, maybe a 10+ year trial period would be a good bet.

Beats betting on the American imo.

Except for the in-waiting part. I'm not interested in partial memberships, neither is the B1G.

I'll take a scheduling agreement to play two B1G teams in FB each year. Home/Road, doesn't matter. The league can pick which ones, I don't care. Second and fourth Saturdays in September at noon, just tell me where to be.