Cardoso to SC

[darkstar1]

Your frame reference is probably the UConn game in which SC backcourt played one of their worse games of the season. They had a strong season near the end. I guess you didn't see the Stanford game. SC backcourt dominated Stanford's guards. Cooke had 27 and Henderson had 18 against the National champions. So to say they wont get better next year is wishful thinking.

I don’t wish for them not to get better. I hope they do and look forward to a great rivalry. I watch e wry game I can and just don’t see the current back court taking them all the way.

 

[shiverz45]

Boston - 6'5" Nelson-Ododa - 6'5"
Cardoso - 6'7" DeBerry - 6'5"
Amihere - 6'4" Gabriel - 6'5"
Juhas - 6'4"


Now let's talk guards - UConn - Azzi, Bueckers, Williams, Westbrook, Muhl...need I say more

And while we are at it...the forwards - Edwards, Griffin, McLean, Ducharme, Poffenbarger.

I like our chances.

You forgot to list 6'3 Feagin who outplayed DeBerry and won MVP of an all star game earlier in April. Just saying.

 

[Boreifs]

Actually, I don't remember that being a thing, at all.

Alaina Coates:
13-14: 34 gm, 1 st, .612%, 12.3 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 2.2 bpg
14-15: 36 gms, 5 sts, .562%, 11.1 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.5 bpg
15-16: 35 gms, 33 sts, .644%, 12.1 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.3 bpg
16-17: 28 gms, 27 sts, .670%, 12.9 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 1.4 bpg
17-18: N/A


A'ja Wilson:
13-14: N/A
14-15: 37 gms, 1 st, .538%, 13.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 1.8 bpg
15-16: 33 gms, 32 sts, .531%, 16.1 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.1 bpg
16-17: 35 gms, 35 sts, .588%, 17.9 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 2.6 bpg
17-18: 33 gms, 29 sts, .542%, 22.6 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.2 bpg

Both players actually complimented each other, not got in each other's way. They both each improved with each successive season. Wilson is the program-leading career scorer (Coates is 11th), and shot-blocker (Coates is tied for 2nd with Kiki Herbert-Harrigan), while Coates is the #2 career rebounder (Wilson is 3rd) and #1 career field goal shooter (Wilson is 5th). Wilson is 2nd all-time at USC in double-doubles, while Coates is 3rd. One could argue that Wilson and Coates were in the top 5 all time players for South Carolina, and they both played together. How is that getting in each other's way??

Wilson had her big jump her senior year offensively not so much because Coates was out of her way, but moreso because Coates as well as Kaela Davis and Alisha Grey had all graduated, and they were 3 of the team's top 4 scorers the previous season. Wilson HAD to shoulder more of a scoring load as a result. Also lost a dbl-digit rebounder in Coates, and Grey was no slouch around 5.0+ rpg herself.....

This seems like revisionist history to me. If I remember correctly, SC took off and played with much more cohesion when Coates was injured. They then won their only NC without her. Not to mention that Boston and Cardosa are completely different players; no one knows if they can be effective on the court at the same time. Saxton and Amihere are both very effective at the four and Boston needs frequent rest; they may just split the center minutes. Stanford won a title rotating three players at the five.

 

[shiverz45]

They both improved each year but there's no denying the 2017 team really started to gel once Coates went down with injury. A lot of that comes down to personnel and skill set, but the team thrived once Wilson had the paint to herself to operate and better spacing. Boston and Cardoso isn't a great parallel since neither is going to blow by defenders off the bounce like A'ja did but they have similar low post skill sets which usually don't pair well together. Boston has a solid face up game and I could see her being a decent passer out of the high post but I think it'll be interesting to see how Dawn uses 2 of the best bigs in women's basketball.

I don't see them playing a whole lot of minutes on the court at the same time like Wilson and Coates did. Maybe for matchup purpose. I think they will rotate for the most part.

 

[sivad40]

I wonder how much longer this thread is going to on until it gets locked.

 

[Orc]

You forgot to list 6'3 Feagin who outplayed DeBerry and won MVP of an all star game earlier in April. Just saying.

I think it will take time for deberry to develop. Dont think she’ll make much of an impact next year. Ono will still be Ono. I dont think that will change.

I think Edwards will be solid for us next year. Hoping Dorka will be solid contributor too. We need these two to be great to compete with SOuth Carolinas frontcourt

 

[cferraro04]

You forgot to list 6'3 Feagin who outplayed DeBerry and won MVP of an all star game earlier in April. Just saying.

Actually I didn’t...I only listed SCs #5 players. If I would have listed Faegin...I would listed her with Aaliyah Edwards and that would be the match up and I like Asliyah’s chances too.

 

[Boreifs]

I don't see them playing a whole lot of minutes on the court at the same time like Wilson and Coates did. Maybe for matchup purpose. I think they will rotate for the most part.

I agree

 

[Sluconn Husky]

No it's not misdrection. The object of the game is to win. The defense played by SC wasn't good enough to win. Results matter.

PB went nuts because they didn't have good enough perimeter defense to stop her, right? Isn't that the point of saying an extra big won't help?

And in regards to the other game you are referring to it's not close to being relevant point. PB - the best player in WCBB didn't play in that game. And she was the reason - to put in your words - why she went nuts vs " SC's defense. SO the future meetings - UCONN will have the best player in WCBB that they didn't have 2 years ago. So how is 2 years ago relevant?

Sorry, it is misdirection. I mentioned how they shut down UConn's offense and that their defense and rebounding is bound to be better and you pointed in a different direction.

UConn's offense was no better with PB than the year before without. In fact, UConn shot worse this year's game (40% - 43%) despite Bueckers going 14-26. And they were worse on the boards this year as well.

 

[Boreifs]

I think it will take time for deberry to develop. Dont think she’ll make much of an impact next year. Ono will still be Ono. I dont think that will change.

I think Edwards will be solid for us next year. Hoping Dorka will be solid contributor too. We need these two to be great to compete with SOuth Carolinas frontcourt

SC should be worried about competing with our backcourt.

 

[Britt87]

So sad but luckily she didn't go to Stanford. SC can't utilize the Big well. I dont understand her decision.

Everybody can't just transfer to Stanford all willy nilly lol.

 

[ConwayGmck]

perhaps but you cannot deny losing Coates did NOT hurt the team.

If it happened early in the season, it very well could have. There were only 7 or so games left to play in the season - mostly conference and national tournament games. I WILL IN FACT DENY that Coates getting initially injured at Missouri DID NOT hurt the team for that game - WE LOST IT 62-60, primarily due to the shock of losing Alaina.

But the team was in a very fortunate position to have Wilson, Davis, and Gray who were all very talented confident players who had led three different P5 programs at various times of their college careers, and they were who we had to rely on to help carry the load of Coate's loss. So they were able to step up and get the job done. But that doesn't mean that had they had to do that for a whole season, that something would have broken down along the way....

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Even with the addition of Cardoso...which is a good one, the difference between Uconn and SC is guard play. CT is better. SC can play two bigs, but ON DEFENSE one of them will have to guard on the parameter. Boston can do it sufficiently for a few possessions, but for even half a game. I can't see that. ON OFFENSE...one has to play outside the paint. Assuming it's Boston, who can hit from the foul line area the question is ...can she do it consistently. I've seen her have good games from outside, but most of the time the other team was conceding that shot to her as opposed to allowing her to dominate the paint.

SC has excellent guards, but IMO they have to do TOO MUCH because of the absence of that player who is a consistent wing scorer. Maybe it's one of their newcomers, but don't expect a miracle no matter how good they were in HS. The area is open, but who is there...Beal...Saxon? Zia Cooke will take a bad shot before even thinking about passing to them. And she can score, but on how many shots? Henderson, the PG shoots at a higher percentage.

SC will go into these extended offensive lulls where it's just not pretty at all. In a nutshell...while Cardosos is a plus, it's the top of their offense that they need to figure out. AND...I wouldn't be surprised if a SC player or two hits the portal before the deadline. They need better outside shooters and their roster is BULGING. Zia shot like 39% from three, but if you take off her best two or three games...that number falls. She's a slasher and midrange threat...take the 3 point weight off of her.

I think there are too many assumptions in this thread that Cardoso and Boston will be playing at the same time. I'm sure they will for a handful of minutes each game, but the true advantage is that neither of them will really have to worry about foul trouble when they don't need to be counted on to play 32 mpg.

 

[ConwayGmck]

This seems like revisionist history to me. If I remember correctly, SC took off and played with much more cohesion when Coates was injured. They then won their only NC without her. Not to mention that Boston and Cardosa are completely different players; no one knows if they can be effective on the court at the same time. Saxton and Amihere are both very effective at the four and Boston needs frequent rest; they may just split the center minutes. Stanford won a title rotating three players at the five.

What seems like revisionist history to you? The cold hard stats I posted? The career records that are in the official media guide?

Coates got injured against Missouri in a game that USC lost close. It's just my opinion, but Coate's injury played a role in them losing that game. She returned to play the final 2 games in limited minutes, and actually had 13 pts and 9 rebounds in a 95-87 win over Kentucky, but re-injured her ankle again. She then played briefly in the SECT semifinals against versus UK, and injured her ankle again. That's when she was ruled out for the rest of the season.

Again, it helped that the Gamecocks had a lot of veteran talented players to carry the load. They also had a good week if not more of preparation for the NCAAT to adjust the roles to fill the void. Bianca Cuevas-Moore had competed with freshman Ty Harris for the starting PG role, and lost to her earlier in the season. Bianca was a bit too wild and undisciplined with her passing and ball handling, but was a lightning bolt in transitions, and played in your hip pocket defense. She was also a veteran reserve who totally knew the schemes.

Dawn adjusted the lineup to have Cuevas-Moore play alongside Harris in the backcourt, and Davis join Gray as Wings 3/4 players, and Wilson at the 5. Kinda like what CT played the past two season with ONO as a stretch 4 playing the 5, but in Wilson's case she actually had the body size and physicality to be a legit 5. And it worked - had USC not won the title or lost early in the NCAAT, the talk here would be that losing Coates was the reason why. But EITHER argument is nothing but pure conjecture because you will NEVER have BOTH scenarios to compare with side to side, to see which scenario was the most successful.

You're just guessing after the fact. Fabricating with little to no basis of evidence, to suit your argument. Another description for that is, "revisionist history".......

 

[ConwayGmck]

Everybody can't just transfer to Stanford all willy nilly lol.

This is true. One will NEVER be allowed to transfer to Stanford all willy nilly. I think it's actually Admissions Department policy there that you are ONLY allowed to transfer nolens volens.......

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I think there are too many assumptions in this thread that Cardoso and Boston will be playing at the same time. I'm sure they will for a handful of minutes each game, but the true advantage is that neither of them will really have to worry about foul trouble when they don't need to be counted on to play 32 mpg.

I didn't assume...just didn't address it in my already long post. And yes, the extra fouls are an advantage, but playing one at a time...also makes it easier for defenses to pack the paint. And fouling...is usually easy points to the other team. IMO...the maximum advantage would be to have consistent shooters around either or both. I thought that's why they brought in Littleton, she didn't play a ton. In most games, against the average defense or against other teams it really won't matter because SC is overall elite.

My overall point is, whether you play one or both...that doesn't address the lack of consistent shooting. Look at the game between SC and Conn this past season. Boston dominated. In the second half, the CT offense stalled by any standards and they still won. Why? Because so did Zia and Henny. And BEAL played 45 minutes and she's not a consistent scoring threat. Combined...just those 3 guards missed 27 shots.

Add Azzi and Ducharme to the guards already on CT...and any combination of 2 or 3 of them on the floor is a lot of scoring and a lot to defend. Naz Hillman scores 50 points against Ohio State and they still lose because she had no help from their guards and if I recall zero bench points. Ohio State wins because they just put 5 double-digit scorers on the floor...nothing flashy. SC is not a CONSISTENT threat from all 5 positions....or even four positions. AND...neither was CT this past year and considering the youth...I thought they overachieved. I love Cardoso, and she definitely helps SC, but not where they really need it.

 

[shiverz45]

Actually I didn’t...I only listed SCs #5 players. If I would have listed Faegin...I would listed her with Aaliyah Edwards and that would be the match up and I like Asliyah’s chances too.

Amihere is not a 5. Saxton is closer to a 5 than Amihere.

 

[ThatCG1801]

Honestly? Yes! I didn't post about the players themselves, I posted about the SC fans and their opinions about the playing time and/or who might leave.

You seemed to be asking or wondering if South Carolina fans were worried if any of our girls would hit the portal and I answered you and gave you the reasoning behind that answer.

 

[diggerfoot]

Didn't have any problems against UConn's offense the last two years. Are you saying they will have more problems defensively after adding the ACC defensive POY?

Are you saying our offense against them was well run the past two years (I don’t consider Bueckers taking over well run in the usual UConn fashion, though the team did screen for her quite well)? Also, who were the SC twin towers of which you refer? Were both paint dominant posts, or did you miss that part of my post?

But besides the rhetorical errors of your challenge, I’ll answer maybe. They will have fewer problems defensively if Cardoso is used to compensate for the foul trouble and stamina of Boston, ie, in tandem. They will have more problems against a well run offense, and I expect ours to be well run, if used together. I’m just restating my case here.

Frankly, for those pessimists that must have something to be worried about I would suggest being worried about the light bulb finally turning on for Amihere, as she could indeed be the kind of additional tall post that can yet create spacing on offense and be mobile if caught on the perimeter on defense.

Plus, though I hate to do this to pessimists who already torture themselves enough, you really have something to worry about with SC guards. That was the weakness they needed to improve upon most and improve it looks like they will.

 

[Huskie02]

I don’t wish for them not to get better. I hope they do and look forward to a great rivalry. I watch e wry game I can and just don’t see the current back court taking them all the way.

First Boston and now Cardoza, a top recruit and a top transfer that most people had UConn bound. Dawn has turned into a top recruiter.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Are you saying our offense against them was well run the past two years (I don’t consider Bueckers taking over well run in the usual UConn fashion, though the team did screen for her quite well)? Also, who were the SC twin towers of which you refer? Were both paint dominant posts, or did you miss that part of my post?

But besides the rhetorical errors of your challenge, I’ll answer maybe. They will have fewer problems defensively if Cardoso is used to compensate for the foul trouble and stamina of Boston, ie, in tandem. They will have more problems against a well run offense, and I expect ours to be well run, if used together. I’m just restating my case here.

Frankly, for those pessimists that must have something to be worried about I would suggest being worried about the light bulb finally turning on for Amihere, as she could indeed be the kind of additional tall post that can yet create spacing on offense and be mobile if caught on the perimeter on defense.

Plus, though I hate to do this to pessimists who already torture themselves enough, you really have something to worry about with SC guards. That was the weakness they needed to improve upon most and improve it looks like they will.

No, it wasn't well run. That's the point. South Carolina all but shut it down save for Dangerfield and Bueckers.

I never mentioned "twin towers." You did.

 

[oldude]

Why does Saxton's or Amihere's playing time matter any more than Mir or Aubrey Griffin's?

so long as the minutes are decided on merit in each case, it shouldn't matter much who plays.

No team can control whether their bench can handle their role. If they can't, that's what the portal is there for.

Both teams have similar challenges in managing a large, talented roster. This thread is focused on Cardoso and SC, not necessarily UConn. Call me crazy, but if a couple players reach their potential, Dawn’s best lineup might just be Cardoso at the 5, Amihere, the most athletic Big at the 4, 3 G/W’s and Boston on the bench. Just sayin.

 

[DeeHusky]

I don’t think either team is far superior to the other. We saw that this year.

 

[diggerfoot]

No, it wasn't well run. That's the point. South Carolina all but shut it down save for Dangerfield and Bueckers.

I never mentioned "twin towers." You did.

Feel free to point to rhetorical errors. Stating I mentioned "twin towers" when that was you doesn't count.

Since my comments have consistently been about the flaws of a twin towers approach, what precisely were you challenging if not for that? If you are not challenging the flaw of having two paint dominant posts then what is your point?

Two years ago SC clearly had a better team, the season revealed our offense not to be as smooth as in years past so that a better team like SC could stop us. They did not need two paint dominant posts to do so. Neither Cox nor Sabally constitute a paint dominant post like Cardoso either.

Last year the teams were more even. Our offense was a little better run, but still unlike vintage UConn in being too often focused on one player. We needed better shooting from our other guards. Hopefully that will happen, but it won’t be another paint dominant post that will thwart our guard play, an enhanced Amihere is more likely to do that.

Seriously, why do you continue to challenge my claims if you do not dispute my detailing of the problems of playing two twin towers at the same time? There’s nothing else in my comments for you to dispute, I even gave you extra fuel for pessimism, including the problem Cardoso poses if they alternate her with Boston. If you do think playing both Boston and Cardoso at the same time is a greater problem for us, then don’t hide behind the fact you never used the phrase twin towers yourself.