B12 Officials Met with Cincinnati BEFORE Playoff Announcement

[frankthetank]

Too far away?

• Austin TX - Boise ID: 1628 miles
• Austin TX - Provo UT: 1247 miles
• Austin TX - East Hartford CT: 1865 miles

We have better flights than Boise for sure. I don't think distance is decisive here.

Connecticut is an entire state too. Connecticut population 3.6 million, Idaho 1.6 million. Boise State is not even the flagship state university. This is not even a close comparison.

UConn people need to be making this argument at every chance that they get. The public perception is that UConn is much farther from Big 12 territory than the western schools, but a lot of people forget how vast the distances are in the Rocky Mountain region. I'm not saying that this argument will work in the end (as I still think the Big 12 would choose Cincinnati and BYU *if* the league chooses to expand), but this is a major geographic perception bias that UConn needs to address at every opportunity if wants to have a chance.

 

[frankthetank]

B


Boise State and BYU have much better football programs.
You forget Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St.
How far it for Boise to travel to Iowa?
How far for BYU?

BB teams could do a two/three day swing all ways for B12. Texas swing, Northern swing, Kanas/Oklahoma swing.

UConn is an Eastern school. These are all Western programs.
The idea is to get everyone in the concerned area from Utah to Texas thinking B12 football.
Ct. is an island that no one there cares about.
We would be the cousin Vinny of the B12.

From Google Maps:

Ames, IA to Storrs, CT: 1,260 miles
Ames, IA to Provo, UT: 1,116 miles
Ames, IA to Boise, ID: 1,396 miles

Lawrence, KS to Storrs, CT: 1,383 miles
Lawrence, KS to Provo, UT: 1,046 miles
Lawrence, KS to Boise, ID: 1,370 miles

Both BYU and Boise State would be islands in the Big 12, too. The argument that UConn should be making is that it would be much less of an island assuming that it joins with Cincinnati (with West Virginia in between).

IMHO, Boise State is largely a non-factor for Big 12 expansion. BYU, on the other hand, is serious competition because they have a good football brand and great national fan base.

 

[Kolumbo]

UConn people need to be making this argument at every chance that they get. The public perception is that UConn is much farther from Big 12 territory than the western schools, but a lot of people forget how vast the distances are in the Rocky Mountain region. I'm not saying that this argument will work in the end (as I still think the Big 12 would choose Cincinnati and BYU *if* the league chooses to expand), but this is a major geographic perception bias that UConn needs to address at every opportunity if wants to have a chance.

Plus while visitors come to our fine state, they can easily go enjoy the Yankees, Mets, Sox, Jets, Giants, Patriots, Rangers, Islanders, Devils, Bruins, Knicks, Nets, Celtics...

 

[WestHartHusk]

From Google Maps:

Ames, IA to Storrs, CT: 1,260 miles
Ames, IA to Provo, UT: 1,116 miles
Ames, IA to Boise, ID: 1,396 miles

Lawrence, KS to Storrs, CT: 1,383 miles
Lawrence, KS to Provo, UT: 1,046 miles
Lawrence, KS to Boise, ID: 1,370 miles

Both BYU and Boise State would be islands in the Big 12, too. The argument that UConn should be making is that it would be much less of an island assuming that it joins with Cincinnati (with West Virginia in between).

Norman, OK to Storrs: 1629
Norman, OK to Provo: 1144
Norman, OK to Boise: 1546

Morgantown to Storrs: 520
Morgantown to Provo: 1930
Morgantown to Boise: 2209

 

[Sky ball]

Google maps says:

Austin, TX to:

Hartford, CT 1865 Mi
Boise, ID 1628 mi
Provo, UT 1246 mi









Provo, UT

 

[Stinger92860]

Let's play Texas and Oklahoma in Yankee Stadium. NYC is a major advantge we must leverage. Texas vs UConn be followed by the ny media.

 

[Kolumbo]

Want to see an outlier? Check out U. of Washington. Farther north than Montreal and farther west than LA.
That said, we are not being invited to the Big 12.

 

[Kolumbo]

I think even playing in the Yale bowl would be a unique experience once in a while.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Austin to Orlando: 1123 miles
Ames to Orlando: 1360
Lawrence to Orlando: 1275 miles
Norman to Orlando: 1269 miles
Morgantown to Orlando: 899
Lubbock to Orlando: 1427

Lubbock to Provo: 872
Lubbock to Boise: 1253
Lubbock to Storrs: 1949

 

[Broman]

UConn people need to be making this argument at every chance that they get. The public perception is that UConn is much farther from Big 12 territory than the western schools, but a lot of people forget how vast the distances are in the Rocky Mountain region. I'm not saying that this argument will work in the end (as I still think the Big 12 would choose Cincinnati and BYU *if* the league chooses to expand), but this is a major geographic perception bias that UConn needs to address at every opportunity if wants to have a chance.

Frank,

What are the odds Notre Dame finally decides to join a conference based on the College Football Playoff?

I still maintain that is UConn's best life-raft since if ND struck a deal to move to the BIG then UConn is the only obvious choice (unless a SEC team left...), and they seem to make more sense in the ACC versus UC (who fits better into the Big 12)...

Oh, and this is a general comment (not towards Frank...) the idea that Cincinnati is OSU territory is only really believed by marketing folks. I was at Kroger's yesterday and saw a huge display of OSU paper towels. I of course being a loud mouthed UC fan asked the guy and girl stacking them what OSU towels were doing in Cincinnati...they were both to paraphrase "I dunno...its stupid". I asked some of the employees in the front who were equally confused.

Cincinnati is UC #1, UK #2 (Northern Kentucky), and I'd argue ND/OSU tie #3, and Louisville a distant #4. 10 years ago when UC was irrelevant in football then there were a lot more OSU fans (I was a PSU fan at a party when they upset OSU...almost got my ass kicked...cue up Sandusky jokes). The bigger problem is that we have the old Pitt problem of having a pro football team (although to be fair, that might be being nice to the Bengals in calling them a professional team...) in a mid-sized city competing for $$ with college football and HS football (which I will never get why its so big here...I grew up on the East Coast).

 

[pnow15]

Here's UConn's best chance for entrance into Big 12. We fly into the a meeting with the Texas schools and Warde carries a very large suitcase. At the meeting, he unpacks vintage Colt 45's and Winchester 73's and presents them to the Texans. His opening remark. You have done business with Connecticut before and how did that work out for you?

 

[CL82]

.
But Boise State, where you get an entire state to watch.

Idaho, United States population - 1.61 million (2013)

Connecticut, United States population - 3.60 million (2013)
New York City population - 8.40 million (2014)

 

[Gampeltiles]

Even the Big 12 was serious about keeping West Virginia for the long-haul, you knew they would try to bridge that gap geographically. Cincy makes a lot of sense as an addition.

True, and Pitt would fit in perfectly. Panthers jump the ACC and UCONN moves in.

 

[frankthetank]

Frank,

What are the odds Notre Dame finally decides to join a conference based on the College Football Playoff?

Effectively zero. I can't emphasize enough that Notre Dame looks at independence as an institutional identity issue (not just a football issue). Domers have passed up more money (which they would have made by being an equal member of the Big Ten), more bowl access and better chances for the national championship already because independence is a threshold core issue for them. What's logic for 99.9% of other football programs is IRRELEVANT to Domers. The only way that ND would ever join a conference is if they are 100% structurally shut out of the playoff where there is an explicit rule that no one but conference champs would be allowed. It can't merely be "very hard" or "unlikely", which is how it is in the CFP setup.

Note that Notre Dame is the one power school in the country where the alums truly dictate terms to the leadership as opposed to the other way around. There is no leader at Notre Dame that will advocate for football conference membership because as soon as he/she does, he/she will be immediately removed by the alums. It's a zero sum issue for them.

 

[Dooley]

Well, Year 1 of the playoff saw nothing but conference champions even when you could make a very real argument that a few non "true" conference champions deserved to be in.

My guess is that the playoff field will grow to 8 somehow (probably begin the season in mid-August with less bye weeks?) and that the "true conference champion" requirement will be laxed in order to better fit all the Power conferences and ND. This way, you can have 2 SEC teams every year, all P5 conferences represented and still have room at the table in the event ND runs the table.

I wonder though if ND will look to re-negotiate their TV deal with NBC if conferences start pulling in an additional $25-$50M per year just for CCG rights.

 

[don356]

Oh, and this is a general comment (not towards Frank...) the idea that Cincinnati is OSU territory is only really believed by marketing folks. I was at Kroger's yesterday and saw a huge display of OSU paper towels. I of course being a loud mouthed UC fan asked the guy and girl stacking them what OSU towels were doing in Cincinnati...they were both to paraphrase "I dunno...its stupid". I asked some of the employees in the front who were equally confused.

Cincinnati is UC #1, UK #2 (Northern Kentucky), and I'd argue ND/OSU tie #3, and Louisville a distant #4. 10 years ago when UC was irrelevant in football then there were a lot more OSU fans (I was a PSU fan at a party when they upset OSU...almost got my ass kicked...cue up Sandusky jokes). The bigger problem is that we have the old Pitt problem of having a pro football team (although to be fair, that might be being nice to the Bengals in calling them a professional team...) in a mid-sized city competing for $$ with college football and HS football (which I will never get why its so big here...I grew up on the East Coast).[/QUOTE]

Yep, OSU is like the Walmart of college sports. They throw their junk everywhere trying spread their print. However, it often only irritates the home folks.

 

[frankthetank]

Well, Year 1 of the playoff saw nothing but conference champions even when you could make a very real argument that a few non "true" conference champions deserved to be in.

My guess is that the playoff field will grow to 8 somehow (probably begin the season in mid-August with less bye weeks?) and that the "true conference champion" requirement will be laxed in order to better fit all the Power conferences and ND. This way, you can have 2 SEC teams every year, all P5 conferences represented and still have room at the table in the event ND runs the table.

I wonder though if ND will look to re-negotiate their TV deal with NBC if conferences start pulling in an additional $25-$50M per year just for CCG rights.

Sure, but there's still a massive difference between having a strong preference for conference champions (which was also often the case in the BCS era) and being literally not allowed to participate in the playoff. The latter scenario is the only acceptable justification for Notre Dame's alums (who, once again, very literally control the school as football matters, including coaching hiring, all go through the large and completely alumni-based Board of Trustees that doesn't just rubber stamp the financials) to join a conference.

I'd agree that this will likely be made moot by an 8-team playoff. However, structurally, "less is more". Use the Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Fiesta Bowl and Orange Bowl as the quarterfinals on New Year's Eve/Day. I've never bought the bogus reasoning of university presidents that they don't want the playoff to extend further into January. Complete preservation of the bowl system (which is the free market contractual mechanism through which the power conferences can preserve their access and money advantages) plus avoiding conflicts with final exams in December for 8 teams would outweigh pushing the season 7 to 10 days later for 2 teams that are often still on Winter Break.

 

[frankthetank]

Oh, and this is a general comment (not towards Frank...) the idea that Cincinnati is OSU territory is only really believed by marketing folks. I was at Kroger's yesterday and saw a huge display of OSU paper towels. I of course being a loud mouthed UC fan asked the guy and girl stacking them what OSU towels were doing in Cincinnati...they were both to paraphrase "I dunno...its stupid". I asked some of the employees in the front who were equally confused.

Cincinnati is UC #1, UK #2 (Northern Kentucky), and I'd argue ND/OSU tie #3, and Louisville a distant #4. 10 years ago when UC was irrelevant in football then there were a lot more OSU fans (I was a PSU fan at a party when they upset OSU...almost got my ass kicked...cue up Sandusky jokes). The bigger problem is that we have the old Pitt problem of having a pro football team (although to be fair, that might be being nice to the Bengals in calling them a professional team...) in a mid-sized city competing for $$ with college football and HS football (which I will never get why its so big here...I grew up on the East Coast).

Yep, OSU is like the Walmart of college sports. They throw their junk everywhere trying spread their print. However, it often only irritates the home folks.[/QUOTE]

Cincinnati people know that I'm a big supporter of the school and believe that they're the #1 option for the Big 12. However, I do find the Cincinnati arguments to downplay Ohio State's fandom and influence in that market to be relatively weak compared to the other ones in their arsenal. The Ohio State fandom isn't necessarily as strong in the Cincinnati market as it is in other parts of the state of Ohio, but all of the TV ratings, Facebook data and other objective metrics show that the Ohio State presence is still *extremely* strong in that area (whereas it's *insanely off-the-charts* strong in other parts of Ohio). Ohio State's hold over its entire home state is as strong as any school in the country outside of the SEC schools that have monopolies (i.e. LSU).

That doesn't mean that Cincinnati can't co-exist with Ohio State in that market. It's pretty comparable to the Louisville/Kentucky split in the Louisville market.

 

[Fishy]

Cincinnati is in the same boat as Louisville - they have their fans in the neighborhood, but the state is dominated by the state U.

 

[pj]

Cincinnati is in the same boat as Louisville - they have their fans in the neighborhood, but the state is dominated by the state U.

Cincinnati is in a leakier boat, they have pro competition down the street.

 

[Broman]

Cincinnati is in a leakier boat, they have pro competition down the street.

Yea, but its a much bigger boat (Louisville metro area is 1.3 million, 22,300 students. Cincinnati metro area is 2.3 million, 42,600 students). If you include Dayton, its 3.2 million (they are merging for the 2020 census), although I'd argue Dayton is mostly O$U.

Let's face it...people in the state are bandwagon fans and will watch/root for whoever is doing well. It just normally happens to be O$U. Watch out if they start to suck for 5 years, lol.

With regards to Cincinnati...with other entertainment options available, people will pay and pay well to see a winner and a competitive team, we won't bother to watch for free if they suck. To be fair, I saw this same phenomena at U of Illinois during my graduate work there, and they have nothing to do around there except to prepare for unofficial St. Patrick's day (I never had a drunk student in any class I taught...I would have had a lot of fun).

And as for UConn's value to ESPN in the BIG or ACC or B12...there is no value if they are matched up against ECU for basketball. Good games/perceived good games drive viewership...I'm assuming when Texas plays fill in Sun Belt/MAC opponent the ratings are pretty bad. So yea, you might have a cheap property locked up and rent it out for next to nothing, but if you put some money and investment into it, you could probably quintuple your rent. Then again, ESPN hates UConn for whatever reason...why do you give them tax breaks again?

 

[Fishy]

We gave them the tax breaks before we found out they hate us.

The governor is also a Boston College grad which means he isn't inclined to follow college sports.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

But Boise State, where you get an entire state to watch

Oh boy, I think the B12 should go after Alaska-Anchorage and Alaska-Fairbanks then. After all, how could you turn down offering membership to a school with this video:

 

[Kolumbo]

Cincinnati is in the same boat as Louisville - they have their fans in the neighborhood, but the state is dominated by the state U.

In other words, Cincy is next up for the ACC. if available.

 

[pnow15]

Oh boy, I think the B12 should go after Alaska-Anchorage and Alaska-Fairbanks then. After all, how could you turn down offering membership to a school with this video:

Great video. But, since this a basketball website, I was wondering if ever got hold of the Glen Rice/Sarah Palin video.