At large bid possible for Army?

[Blakeon18]

Army under Dave Magarity is having a fantastic regular season. They play Friday in the Patriot league semi-finals with the final tourney game on Saturday at 6:00 on CBSSN. Normally that league gets one bid...period.
Should Army lose in the finals [Bucknell?], I hope the committee looks closely at them for an at-large bid.
Their inclusion would be a great story to promote the tourney...with west coaster Kelsey Minato as the centerpiece. 3 time league POY...career scoring leader for Army....number retired [first one so honored].


Give them a 13 or 14 seed and they might sufficiently annoy a team to grab a win.

Note: they are 27-2...lost to Duke by 11 at Duke...and split with Bucknell. Best win is probably Albany which has dominated the America East including UHart.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Kelsey Minato is a very, very good player with WNBA talent.

 

[UcMiami]

I just don't see it happening, though it would be nice. They have a 70 RPI that would drop to around 80 with a loss to Bucknell who comes in to that game with a 90 RPI. The Albany win is as good as it gets and they have a 48 RPI so compared to Temple, Auburn, Iowa, Villanova, or any of the other bubble teams they just don't stack up. Kelsey is great and Army is a favorite for a lot of reasons, but they have to win or head to the WNIT.

And people discount the WNIT but for teams on the bubble or off the bubble it is actually a great way to end their season - in the NCAA very few bubble teams that get in do anything more than get blown out in the first round - in the WNIT teams have a chance to play in competitive games with a very real chance of adding to their season win totals even if they do not win the tournament.

 

[Vowelguy]

Absolutely not.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

I agree, it would be a great story, but I don't see it. I would LIKE to see it, but while Mid-80s Navy team on the men's side had a budding superstar in David Robinson, they had a decent team around him, and I think they made it to the Final 8. Minato and Army are nowhere near that good. NIT bound, where they should get through the first round or two. If televised, I will watch, just to see a great kid like Minato play.

 

[ThisJustIn]

This is when I'd like to say... throw the numbers and rule book out!! sigh.

Honestly, I know what the numbers say about some teams, and that means they should go in.. and it's probably the best, fairest way to make the decisions. But dang, choosing between a team of top quality players that have stumbled through the season v. a bunch of high quality players that have kicked ass through the season? No brainer for me.

BTW - the job Aaron Roussell has done with the Bucknell program should have earned him WBCA consideration for region COY honors

 

[ochoopsfan]

The Army has given Kelsey Minato permission to play in the WNBA, if drafted and makes a WNBA team. She can not play internationally, before her Army commitment is completed.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/minato-707610-army-point.html

Article has video of her senior night retirement of her jersey.
Also photo slide show.

 

[UcMiami]

They and Bucknell both still have a chance, that unfortunately will come at the expense of the other - like Penn and Princeton and a number of other really good mid-majors. I absolutely agree that too much deference is paid to numbers and to P5 teams and I would certainly be in favor of a rule that limited the total number of P5 teams receiving at large bids to 18 or 20 instead of the 21 that Creme is predicting.
But the reality is every year there are great stories associated to near miss schools - Villanova that has a great record but is being dropped from projections because one of their stars is lost for the year in the last month of the season. Bantam at Minnesota who, like Minato if Army doesn't win, is a great player who will miss the dance. Princeton who doesn't give sports scholarships, has a good record and lost twice by 2 points to Penn.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Kelsey Minato is a very, very good player with WNBA talent.

Would she be permitted to play in the WNBA? Six year commitment to the army awaits after a degree in a service academy. Having said that, the military has a way of permitting great athletes to single out of that. Robinson, for example.

 

[UcMiami]

Would she be permitted to play in the WNBA? Six year commitment to the army awaits after a degree in a service academy. Having said that, the military has a way of permitting great athletes to single out of that. Robinson, for example.

See the post above by Ocho.
Typically they find ways for professional athletes to serve in the off-seasons stateside - it isn't a complete release of responsibilities to their service. Not sure if that was true for Robinson, but I am sure they could have found great value in using him in both a morale and PR capacity if not in an actual part-time role on a base.

 

[NVUConnFan]

An outstanding award, article and video about an wonderful young person.

From the article:

“I have to force myself not to think about her on the battlefield,” Rick Minato [her father] said. “It’s only natural for a parent to be concerned. There’s always a worry.”

“I wouldn’t say it’s scary,” Kelsey Minato said. “West Point has prepared me for deployment.”

It's what they (West Point) do.

 

[cordarone]

I would LIKE to see it, but while Mid-80s Navy team on the men's side had a budding superstar in David Robinson, they had a decent team around him, and I think they made it to the Final 8.

As a side note, a notable teammate of the Admiral on that Elite Eight team in 1986 was Vernon Butler, father of the UConn transfer from Georgetown...

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

As a side note, a notable teammate of the Admiral on that Elite Eight team in 1986 was Vernon Butler, father of the UConn transfer from Georgetown...

I did NOT know that.

While at Gampel watching a STUNNING freshman playing in a game, a guy in front of me turned around and said "That's My Cousin!". That was Kemba Walker. He proceeded to admit that he was lying through his teeth, and we both got a good laugh about it, albeit at my expense.

It took two seconds to verify YOUR claim, less time than it took Kemba to admit that he was pulling my leg! Thanks for the information!

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

See the post above by Ocho.
Typically they find ways for professional athletes to serve in the off-seasons stateside - it isn't a complete release of responsibilities to their service. Not sure if that was true for Robinson, but I am sure they could have found great value in using him in both a morale and PR capacity if not in an actual part-time role on a base.

Robinson paid the USN back in SPADES with all of his promotion work. From a recruitment standpoint, I imagine that the USN made dollars on the penny from him. Mutually beneficial.

 

[Plebe]

I just don't see it happening, though it would be nice. They have a 70 RPI that would drop to around 80 with a loss to Bucknell who comes in to that game with a 90 RPI. The Albany win is as good as it gets and they have a 48 RPI so compared to Temple, Auburn, Iowa, Villanova, or any of the other bubble teams they just don't stack up. Kelsey is great and Army is a favorite for a lot of reasons, but they have to win or head to the WNIT.

And people discount the WNIT but for teams on the bubble or off the bubble it is actually a great way to end their season - in the NCAA very few bubble teams that get in do anything more than get blown out in the first round - in the WNIT teams have a chance to play in competitive games with a very real chance of adding to their season win totals even if they do not win the tournament.

I echo this. UCLA is having perhaps its best season ever, and the coach has credited this season's success to the confidence her young squad built from last year's winning run through the WNIT.

Army does have to win, clearly. There are actually other non-P5 conference leaders with stronger resumes than Army's that still won't get in because they lost in their conference tourneys:

• UTEP (25-4, 16-2 in C-USA) lost today to Old Dominion in its conference semifinal. UTEP has a high RPI (#35) but their only top-50 win is over Western Kentucky (not an at-large team).
• Arkansas State (26-5, 19-1 in Sun Belt) lost today to Troy in its conference semifinal. Arkansas State is #43 in the RPI but has no top-50 wins (best win is over #65 Florida Gulf Coast).
• South Dakota (25-6, 15-1 in the Summit) lost in its conference final to South Dakota State. South Dakota is #62 in the RPI but its best wins were the regular-season sweep of South Dakota State (#50 in the RPI).

On the bright side, though, Colorado State, with its gaudy 30 wins but atrociously weak schedule, narrowly averted disaster today, coming back from a double-digit deficit in the second half to nip Fresno State by one point to secure the automatic bid.

 

[UcMiami]

And the path for Army just got a little easier as Bucknell lost last night to Loyola (MD) - really tough for them after a very good season, but presumably better for Army. They play for the championship tonight at 6PM at West Point

 

[stamfordhusky]

I just don't see it happening, though it would be nice. They have a 70 RPI that would drop to around 80 with a loss to Bucknell who comes in to that game with a 90 RPI. The Albany win is as good as it gets and they have a 48 RPI so compared to Temple, Auburn, Iowa, Villanova, or any of the other bubble teams they just don't stack up. Kelsey is great and Army is a favorite for a lot of reasons, but they have to win or head to the WNIT.

And people discount the WNIT but for teams on the bubble or off the bubble it is actually a great way to end their season - in the NCAA very few bubble teams that get in do anything more than get blown out in the first round - in the WNIT teams have a chance to play in competitive games with a very real chance of adding to their season win totals even if they do not win the tournament.

Agree 100%. There is no way Army gets an at-large bid. In addition to the 80+ RPI they would have with a loss, their strength of schedule is somewhere around #310. As you say, Albany is their only win over a good team. If they wanted to be considered for an at-large bid, they needed to go on the road and play a few strong teams. As it is, they played only four away ooc games - and three of those were against relatively weak teams in the NYC area.

 

[Jimbo]

Army clinched the Patriot League's auto bid earlier today, so the at-large question is now moot. Congrats to them!

 

[Plebe]

Army clinched the Patriot League's auto bid earlier today, so the at-large question is now moot. Congrats to them!

Indeed, congrats to Army. Congrats as well to Albany, which yesterday edged out Maine for its automatic berth.

It's great the Kelsey Minato (25 points today) and Shereesha Richards (31 points for Albany yesterday) get to play on the biggest stage. Richards, in particular, deserves way more publicity than she's been getting.

 

[UConner]

See the post above by Ocho.
Typically they find ways for professional athletes to serve in the off-seasons stateside - it isn't a complete release of responsibilities to their service. Not sure if that was true for Robinson, but I am sure they could have found great value in using him in both a morale and PR capacity if not in an actual part-time role on a base.

Interesting fact. The maximum height for a Mercury astronaut was 5 11. Max weight was 180 pounds. It was easy for David Robinson to exceed max height on a ship, so letting him out wasn't that tough. As far as Kelsey goes, she can serve more time after her WNBA career as a great recuiter. Win-win for everybody

 

[stamfordhusky]

See the post above by Ocho.
Typically they find ways for professional athletes to serve in the off-seasons stateside - it isn't a complete release of responsibilities to their service. Not sure if that was true for Robinson, but I am sure they could have found great value in using him in both a morale and PR capacity if not in an actual part-time role on a base.

Based on the article, this is not a typical case. Until about seven years ago, Army would let certain athletes out of much of their service commitment, typically if they were drafted by MLB, with the proviso that they work in a recruiting office in the off-season. Navy and Air Force had no such policy, expecting athletes to serve regular duty, and it was helping Army recruit athletes in certain sports - particularly baseball. Navy complained to the Department of Defense, which intervened and told Army to cut it out. They were told they had to have graduates serve a minimum of two years of regular duty before any special treatment. That ended Army's recruiting edge in baseball. There was extensive coverage on this issue back on the Army and Navy Scout message boards at the time. Based on the Minato article, she is getting treatment different than the policy laid out at that time by the DOD. Maybe it's because the time commitment for the WNBA is much shorter than what is required for other professional sports.

Now the next question is whether she gets drafted. She has great shooting ability, either long-range, mid-range, or a floater off a drive. But she is also really small - proably 5-7, no more than 120 pounds. That will make it tough for her at the WNBA level.

By the way, Robinson - even though he was 6 or 7 inches over the Navy height limit - had to serve two years of active duty before being let out of the rest of his regular duty. Some may recall that Robinson was 6-8 when he was admitted - already two inches over the Navy max at that time - and required a special waiver to get in. Then he shot up to 7-0 or more during his time at the Academy - a huge amount over the Navy max of 6-6.

 

[alexrgct]

I remember back in a recent WCBB tournament selection show, there was a spot announced and displayed for Army. ESPN cut over to the Army players, and they were ecstatic and excited. I felt happy for those kids, and I wished (and still do) that every service academy had a golden opportunity to play in the tournament. These young women are gearing up for two years of service after this degree they've earned and had to work hard for on top of the work they do for the wbb program (which isn't even the source of their full ride as it more often is in the non-service academies).

In short, they've made a commitment to all of us, and it warms the cockles of my heart to see them happy and thrilled for any reason. I hope we get a glimpse of it come Monday evening.

 

[Jimbo]

Based on the article, this is not a typical case. Until about seven years ago, Army would let certain athletes out of much of their service commitment, typically if they were drafted by MLB, with the proviso that they work in a recruiting office in the off-season. Navy and Air Force had no such policy, expecting athletes to serve regular duty, and it was helping Army recruit athletes in certain sports - particularly baseball. Navy complained to the Department of Defense, which intervened and told Army to cut it out. They were told they had to have graduates serve a minimum of two years of regular duty before any special treatment. That ended Army's recruiting edge in baseball. There was extensive coverage on this issue back on the Army and Navy Scout message boards at the time. Based on the Minato article, she is getting treatment different than the policy laid out at that time by the DOD. Maybe it's because the time commitment for the WNBA is much shorter than what is required for other professional sports.

Thanks for this explanation. I remembered this story happening right around that time, and it seems it was a result of the policy shift you describe.

Army changes mind, says Campbell can't play in NFL until 2010

 

[stamfordhusky]

Thanks for this explanation. I remembered this story happening right around that time, and it seems it was a result of the policy shift you describe.

Army changes mind, says Campbell can't play in NFL until 2010

Yes, that was a direct result of the policy change. As you can see, in Minato's case they are not following the policy laid out by the DOD. I'd be curious as to why and how they got around it.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Robinson paid the USN back in SPADES with all of his promotion work. From a recruitment standpoint, I imagine that the USN made dollars on the penny from him. Mutually beneficial.

It's not the job of a cadet to make money for the military; it's his duty to serve in the military, and to fight when called.