Are the Tennessee Fans Overreacting (serious question) | The Boneyard

Are the Tennessee Fans Overreacting (serious question)

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GG

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I recognize, and completely understand, why many within the Tn fan base are both upset and disappointed by the team and CHW, but is the sky really falling? The team is loaded with talent. With another year together under their belts, I would think tn (on paper) would be a contender next year (I know, they should have been one this year). Now the fans are speculating that players may transfer. Is CHW the problem or is it chemistry? The silly end of game decisions....is that on the coach or the players. I see, what appears to me, to be a bit of an attitude issue with certain of their players (one in particular). But what does it stem from? Where do folks here think the problems lie?
 
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CocoHusky

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No.
The talent is mythically overrated.
The BB IQ of the players is abysmal.
The coaching and offensive style is antiquated.
The chemistry has been document to be toxic by potential recruits (Linnae Harper)
In a word-sad.
 
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It's a little of everything mentioned! It's gotten to the point of no return. I just hope that doesn't mess with the confidence of those "All Americans". But hell we're all Americans. ..lol
 

Zorro

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Actually, the problem has gotten worse as the season progressed, and there seems to be no indication that it would be anything but worse next season, even (or maybe especially) if there are no post-season transfers. Or so it seems imho.
 
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I recognize, and completely understand, why many within the Tn fan base are both upset and disappointed by the team and CHW, but is the sky really falling?
I had 2 thoughts reading your post:
1. You're cynical: saying nice things about the program because you hope, as a UConn fan, that they don't fire Holly (just like Patriots fans used to hope the Jets wouldn't fire Herm Edwards).
2. You're sincere. But that there is no recruiting class for next year is a pretty devastating indictment of a program. I think it's not only the mismanagement of the game, but Holly's completely clueless presser after the LSU game (for example) that inspires zero confidence for the future.
Like you, I've got a soft spot for anyone who's put into such a difficult position. Unfortunately for us all, we now live in a cruel, cruel world and for 10-12 WCBB programs, it's win or else (the rest of the programs live in the older world of: nice try; players seem happy; 200 students in the stands; we're not paying the coach very much after all). I gather from other Boneyarders that Holly's in the worst situation of all: they're paying her too much to fire her (too big to fail!), so she will dangle and be publicly humiliated, rather than move on to a much less visible program with much lower expectations and enjoy her coaching.
 

Orangutan

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Provided that no one transfers, I could see them turning it around next year. In spurts, they have played well enough to be a top-10 team.

I think the most realistic concerns are transfers and recruiting. If top players really do transfer, they could struggle again next season. On the recruiting front, since they have no '16 signees, their future starts to look pretty grim if they can't sign 2-3 elite players in the '17 class. And it's getting harder to imagine those recruits choosing Tennessee after how this season has played out.

I could imagine them turning it around next year, signing a decent class in '17 and continuing to be a top program. But I don't think the doomsday scenario (another subpar season next year + lackluster '17 recruiting class) is unrealistic.

The sky isn't falling yet but it soon might be is the way I see it.
 
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Ms Goestenkors

While it is true that many Lady Vol fans are upset and/or disappointed, here we do not consider it to be a problem at all. Goscinny and Uderzo (not sure about the spellings) have both passed away without the sky falling on anybody in Gaul or elsewhere. UCONN Huskies fans do not believe Holly Warlick is the problem. Many have suggested that she should get a raise and an extension. The Lady Vol players have publicly denied that there is any problem with their team chemistry earlier this season.

Addendum:

Your surmise is correct. The Lady Vol fans' sorrow and disappointment may have something to do with their attitude.
 
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They maybe overrating a bit, but the team is clearly under-preforming and has been since Warlick has been head coach. The under-performance has been overlooked by the a number of the Lady Vol fateful because of the injuries and winning the first two rounds in the NCAAs a couple times. With major chemistry issues, the team has taken even more of downturn this year... and Warlick supports are giving up/ready to give up on her.
 

JordyG

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No.
The talent is mythically overrated.
The BB IQ of the players is abysmal.
The coaching and offensive style is antiquated.
The chemistry has been document to be toxic by potential recruits (Linnae Harper)
In a word-sad.
All in a nutshell. If Holly and her staff don't give signs of leaving watch for a wave of transfers. DD is in a bind. She's already left one school. With the attitude she's been projecting it would seem to me most schools would see her as toxic. Except maybe one of course.
 

Icebear

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Provided that no one transfers, I could see them turning it around next year. In spurts, they have played well enough to be a top-10 team.

I think the most realistic concerns are transfers and recruiting. If top players really do transfer, they could struggle again next season. On the recruiting front, since they have no '16 signees, their future starts to look pretty grim if they can't sign 2-3 elite players in the '17 class. And it's getting harder to imagine those recruits choosing Tennessee after how this season has played out.

I could imagine them turning it around next year, signing a decent class in '17 and continuing to be a top program. But I don't think the doomsday scenario (another subpar season next year + lackluster '17 recruiting class) is unrealistic.

The sky isn't falling yet but it soon might be is the way I see it.

That is the same type of over estimation that had the LV a top four team at the start of this season. The situation will not be resolved that quickly with no incoming recruits and some of the most tried and true players graduating.
 

Wbbfan1

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No, they're not overreacting, especially if the Lady Vols are not in the Top 25 in this weeks poll. Something has to be done, but what is it. Many are saying Holly won't be replaced. If that is the case, then at a minimum wholesale changes must be made to the coaching staff. They'll have to sign a couple of the Top Rated JUCO players. Preferably a PG and Power Forward/Center. Finally their style of play MUST change. They have to realize that in addition to defense and rebounding, your team must run an offense that can get you 65+ points a game regardless of the opponent. If I'm the coach, I send as many of the current players to any skills camp that are available, especially the PG Academy.
 

Gate81

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All in a nutshell. If Holly and her staff don't give signs of leaving watch for a wave of transfers. DD is in a bind. She's already left one school. With the attitude she's been projecting it would seem to me most schools would see her as toxic. Except maybe one of course.
"maybe one" -- is this a general statement? or directing us to either Ohio State or South Carolina, or another school? Guess South Carolina couldn't work because of the conference issue...either way, if she's out for another year, then doesn't that mean that by the time she plays again it's her senior year, when people suspect she'd have left for the pros anyway? At least she has her Mercedes (her car, not her teammate)...
 

MilfordHusky

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All in a nutshell. If Holly and her staff don't give signs of leaving watch for a wave of transfers. DD is in a bind. She's already left one school. With the attitude she's been projecting it would seem to me most schools would see her as toxic. Except maybe one of course.
Epiphanny left school early to play in Europe. I believe there was financial need at home. I wouldn't be surprised to see Diamond turn pro because she is tired of college ball.
 
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Let's look at this objectively and break it down into component parts:

Athletic Department support for the Lady Vols? uneasy, The AD Hart is really an unknown with regards with his support for the Lady Vols. He talks a good game but if I was a Vol fan I would be suspect of his motives.

HW is in over her head. The last few press conferences have shown her confused and in denial. Not only does it show she may have lost contril of her team. but bodes very poorly for her recruiting down the road.

Current roster: some good, some great, some prima donnas. There will be transfers at the end of this season.

Next year: there are no recruits coming in;more for UT next year... maybe worse.

2017 and beyond: Recruiting!!! what will happen come April? what are the chances 2017 and 2018 recuits and their parents will buy in to tLady Vols come April? Very Very poor if they don't have a solid coaching staff in place......

If I were a Lady Vol fan I would say the sky is falling ..... if they don't do something by the end of March they may be too late.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Diamond turn pro because she is tired of college ball.
Diamond has massive amounts of natural talent. But if you look at pro players, most have significantly changed their bodies to meet the much greater physical demands. Does Diamond have the mental toughness to do that or is she or her father going to blame someone?
 

UcMiami

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Overreacting - in terms of what gets written on forums - of course! Isn't that what fan forums were created for?!:rolleyes::)

In terms of what is actually happening and the calmer thoughts that express it. Absolutely not.
1. Losing Graves to graduation is going to be an issue - she is one of their best players and NOT a problem in the locker room I think, and they have nothing coming in to replace her. Add in Moore also graduating and they are losing two of three post players. A third big - Jasmine Jones may call it a career having missed most of the last two years with multiple concussions I believe. I do not see the 'zero recruits' for 2016 as a sign per se - every program strikes out once in a while, but if 2017 isn't good then I get very worried.
2. As mentioned above - coaching that seems stultified and does not appear to actually develop players year to year is a problem that isn't going away, unless Holly leaves or at least brings in smart modern assistants and gives them free rein.
3. Team chemistry seems pretty bad, but winning can cure a lot of ills that losing amplifies. That it is getting worse as the year progresses is not a good sign, and that there seems to be a disconnect between coaching staff and players is also not good. What will change over the summer? Good talent with bad chemistry becomes bad basketball quickly. Not sure how much talent is really there, but it is certainly not showing well in the current environment.
4. All the talk of transfers is just bad gossip - no one knows anything and is just speculating. But ... if it happens that one or more players leave that will reduce the team below 9-10 for next year and that might be tough on practice, though it could improve chemistry.
 

UcMiami

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Diamond has massive amounts of natural talent. But if you look at pro players, most have significantly changed their bodies to meet the much greater physical demands. Does Diamond have the mental toughness to do that or is she or her father going to blame someone?
Not a lot of change required, but she has supposedly had problems with her wheels through parts of the last three seasons which is not a good place to be as a pro player. Can her body hold up through 12 month a year professional commitments?
 

huskeynut

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Well the fans are in panic mode! And with some justification.

1. Coaching - antiquated systems for offense and defense.
2. Coaching - player development seems nonexistent.
3. Coaching - no team chemistry, poor attitude.
4. No recruits for 2016 - 2017.

Having said that, I think some of their recruits are overrated. Russell seems lost on the court. Carter does not seem to understand the point guard role - if that is her role. Dunbar - seems to be a good 3 point shooter with little defense. DD - talented but undisciplined.

I don't see this getting any better for next season. Especially if there are transfers.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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No.
The talent is mythically overrated.
The BB IQ of the players is abysmal.
The coaching and offensive style is antiquated.
The chemistry has been document to be toxic by potential recruits (Linnae Harper)
In a word-sad.
I don't know how you can tell the talent is overrated if the next 3 statements are true. In a different environment or a different coach or different teammates, they might rise to the level of their talent.

I'm going to reference Rutgers to talk about Tennessee, since I know a whole lot more about them.

I blame 2 and 3 for some of Rutgers ills, and RU not the only team. More specifically, the RU system relies on good decisions by players, and one occasionally wonders if the coach and player are on the same page. It does seem to me a similar situation applies in Rocky Top. Whether or not this can be addressed seems to me a potential crux of the situation there.

Chemistry was also an issue at times at RU, especially the fab 5 Imus class and had a lot to do with the program falling off in many observers opinions. If chemistry cannot be fixed in Knoxville, then they are, indeed, in deep water.
 

UcMiami

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Well the fans are in panic mode! And with some justification.

1. Coaching - antiquated systems for offense and defense.
2. Coaching - player development seems nonexistent.
3. Coaching - no team chemistry, poor attitude.
4. No recruits for 2016 - 2017.

Having said that, I think some of their recruits are overrated. Russell seems lost on the court. Carter does not seem to understand the point guard role - if that is her role. Dunbar - seems to be a good 3 point shooter with little defense. DD - talented but undisciplined.

I don't see this getting any better for next season. Especially if there are transfers.
To amplify on Knightsbridge - Russell and Graves both showed well in their USA stints through the years - a good player in a bad environment (and especially post players) whether because of coaching or teammates can look terrible. In the TN situation it is very hard to judge talent give everything else that appears wrong.
 

EricLA

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TONS of great comments in this thread. I want to take a slightly different take which I will get to in a minute.

First, are fans over reacting? Not really, but it may be that they are putting too much blame on the coaches. Tennessee fans were thrilled when they heard Diamond was "coming home". Just go back and look at Margo's video. They were thrilled when they landed Cooper. These were 2 players that were supposed to lead them in the present and in the future.

Fast forward and you have Harper saying thanks, but no thanks, to Tennessee, and she specifically mentioned the toxic chemistry on the team as one reason, if not the main one. Short of booting players off the team, there is not much the coaches can do to address the chemistry problems on the team. I have no idea what players, if any, are thinking of transferring. Graves and Moore are seniors and graduating after this year. Carter, Jones, and Reynolds are all juniors. It would seem unlikely that they would transfer, altho Carter and Jones are RS Juniors so maybe they could opt to graduate and leave early.

Deshields, Dunbar, Middleton, Russell and Nared are all sophomores or RS sophomores. I have no idea who, if any, might consider transferring. Point is that until I hear something concrete, I can't assume anyone is leaving.

The point I wanted to address had to do with the coaching. "With all that talent" is a lament we hear all the time. Same should be said about Duke. BUT... you have at least 2 players on that team who are a pretty big problem and it's not hard to read between the lines to figure out who it is. IF the coaches cannot get them under control, then it's time to cut them loose. THAT is on the coaches. To struggle along and continue to see recruiting drop because you have problem players and toxic chemistry is a recipe for disaster 2 years + down the road.

BUT... look at all the close games. The games Tennessee lost to Kentucky, Missisisppi State, and SC were all by just a couple points, and the loss to aTm was only by 5 points. My point is that they were right in those games. I do not disagree that they need to change up the offense, but why aren't people saying the same thing especially about Kentucky and SC and aTm - teams who ONLY beat Tennessee by 1, 6, and 5 points respectively?

Yes I get it - those teams don't have double digit losses this year. BUT the lack of offense is NOT something that is unique to Tennessee. Which brings me to my final point - there are probably about 10 college coaches I'm aware of who teach offense that is creative and revolves around ball movement and passing and not around a guard dribbling around the perimeter for 30 seconds, and NONE of those coaches are in the SEC. Teams like UCONN, ND, Baylor, Maryland, Oregon State, OSU, Louisville, Depaul, Stanford, Dayton, Wisc Green Bay, WVU - and I'm sure there are others. IMHO none of them teach offense as well as UCONN, but to a greater or lesser degree, all these teams run something other than a guard dribbling the ball around waiting to jack up a shot. And I cannot tell you how many times I see a player, usually a guard, take a terrible shot as they try to create something out of nothing. Awful decisions and it happens ALL THE TIME.

Tennessee's problem is similar to every other team in the SEC. And there just aren't that many teams who teach motion offense with tons of passing, ball reversal, movement without the ball, etc. So unless they are willing to fire Holly, eat her 5 year salary extension and buy her out, and go after Jabir, or some other coach like that who's up and coming and has a modern day offense to bring, it won't matter what they do...
 
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I agree that it is difficultt put an overrated tag on players when the coaching is so obviously deficient. Just a couple of stats from well coached programs: UCONN A/T of an incredible 1.77 while assisting on 63.3 % of FG made. ND has an A/T of 1.21 and assists on 61% of shots made. Both teams protect the ball while moving it around for good shots. Other well coached teams such as Stanford, Princeton , Army etc have good A/T's and assist per field goals made.
TENN..an A/T of .79 while assisting on only .54 of shots. That implies poor ball handling, poor ball movement and undisciplined shot selection. IMO, coaching is directly responsible for the poor results. If you can't get your team to play disciplined basketball then you are a failure. By the way, DD's A/T is a miserable .60 while shooting at less than 40% from the field. It will be interesting to see how she develops and whether her lack of development hurts her market value given all the WNBA talk. It would be a shame for talent's like DD and many others who have great potential to not reach the next level due to problems in their schools basketball program. Its also a reason for young recruits that may have long term basketball ambitions to seek out great coaches.
 
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At this point, the decline in that program's fortunes has been so precipitous, and there is so much negative energy coming out of there, it's hard for me to envision a pathway to turning things around anytime soon absent Holly's removal and a big-name coaching hire. If Holly stays, I suspect that some high profile transfers or opt-outs are inevitable, possibly starting with DD, and it's very difficult to foresee any 2017 recruiting success under those conditions. If Holly goes, and a proven name is brought in to replace her, sure, all of that could portend positive change, even in the short term. But I seriously doubt that either the administration or the AD is too focused on such a possibility. UT just has an awful lot on its plate right now with a much publicized Title IX lawsuit going on, and this remains a place where football, and football-related revenues, are the only things that really matter. Sure, sooner or later, poor Holly is toast there. I'd love to see them dangle some big bucks in front of someone prominent to come in and revive the once-storied WBB program, but I just don't see that happening quickly.
 
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"maybe one" -- is this a general statement? or directing us to either Ohio State or South Carolina, or another school? Guess South Carolina couldn't work because of the conference issue...either way, if she's out for another year, then doesn't that mean that by the time she plays again it's her senior year, when people suspect she'd have left for the pros anyway? At least she has her Mercedes (her car, not her teammate)...
Some conferences have a rule if you transfer in conference.You sit for 2 years.Not sure if SEC is one of them.
 
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