Analysis of post-game comments from 7 losses | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Analysis of post-game comments from 7 losses

Status
Not open for further replies.

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,784
Reaction Score
19,227
Doing a little family history and further linguistic study I have discovered family connection to Geno. The old Norse form of our family name is Esbjorn which is ice bear but, also, is translated as "bear of the gods." And as we all know in CT Geno is god.
 

Zorro

Nuestro Zorro Amigo
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
17,920
Reaction Score
15,759
Ice would definitely be a presence in the paint.
I'm upset I didn't make the starting line-up... But I am a walk-on.
They would all be walk-ons.
 

cohenzone

Old Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
18,833
Reaction Score
21,713
It takes many years to earn a Phd. and many lessons to learn along the way. Or sometimes, you pick the wrong major.
 

Phil

Stats Geek
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
4,446
Reaction Score
5,773
Ice would definitely be a presence in the paint.

They would all be walk-ons.

With emphasis on the "walk" i.e. not running. Speaking only for myself, of course. Icebear could probably run rings around MoJet.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,008
Reaction Score
8,970
With emphasis on the "walk" i.e. not running. Speaking only for myself, of course. Icebear could probably run rings around MoJet.
I know he can post rings around her.
 

CamrnCrz1974

Good Guy for a Dookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
2,040
Reaction Score
11,898
I can't see being too hard on McCallie. Of course she does not beat UConn, but who does? (Well, OK, Muffet, but most of those losses were on the flukey side and I'm betting that it will be a long time before it happens again.)

During the time McCallie has been at Duke (this is her 7th year), she has had four recruiting classes ranked in the top three (five recruiting classes, if you count 2014) and currently has a roster of AT LEAST TEN players who were high school All-Americans (McDonald's, USA Today, WBCA).

In the six (completed) seasons, McCallie lost in the Sweet 16, then the second round, before losing in the Elite Eight the last four years.

In these six (completed) seasons, the Final Fours looked like this (national champion listed first, runner-up listed second:
2008 - Tennessee, Stanford, LSU, UConn
2009 - UConn, Louisville, Stanford, Oklahoma
2010 - UConn, Stanford, Baylor, Oklahoma
2011 - Texas A&M, Notre Dame, UConn, Stanford
2012 - Baylor, Notre Dame, UConn, Stanford
2013 - UConn, Louisville, Notre Dame, California

In each of the four Elite Eights, McCallie lost to a team that lost in the Final Four. In other words, she did not lose to the eventual national champion or even the runner-up. Three of the losses were by double digits. In two of the losses, McCallie's teams scored in the 40s.

It is not just about McCallie not beating UConn. It is also about having a team ranked in the "Top 5" for five of the seven games and losing by an average of 25 points per game. Duke is not even *competitive* with UConn.

McCallie was hired to do what Goestenkors could not do - win a national title at Duke. But this is not just about not beating UConn; it is also about Duke regressing backward from Gail Goestenkors. During 1999-2007, Goestenkors made the Elite 8 a total of seven times, with four Final Four appearances and two appearances in the national championship. Goestenkors went 2-2 against UConn and 5-4 against Tennessee (little known fact...Candace Parker's recruiting class was 0-3 against Duke during the Goestenkors era). When was the last time Duke was discussed as a serious national title contender...or even a Final Four contender?

The issue is that there is all of this high school talent that either does not improve under her coaching or improves but not enough to be a contender on a national stage. Duke has far more high school All-Americans and elite recruits Oklahoma, Louisville, Notre Dame, Baylor, and California, yet they all made it to the Final Four. Now, Baylor had Griner. And Louisville had McCoughtry in 2009. But Louisville rebuilt its entire team after McCoughtry graduated and made it back to the Final Four. Same with Oklahoma - the Paris twins graduated in 2009, but Oklahoma made the Final Four in 2010. Notre Dame lost Peters, Novosel, and another starter from the 2012 Final Four team, yet made it back to the Final Four the next year.

Her defenders will say that Duke lost to the teams with the best WCBB players each year. Except in 2010, Duke lost to Baylor when Griner was a freshman and Charles was the best player; in 2011, Duke lost to UConn and Maya Moore, but UConn then lost to Notre Dame (so UConn was beatable); in 2012, Duke lost to Stanford and the Ogwumike sisters, who lost to Baylor in the Final Four; and in 2013, when Duke lost to Notre Dame and Diggins, but ND lost to UConn in the Final Four (and, arguably, Griner and Delle Donne were the best WCBB players, though Skylar was up there).

The best comment in this thread was by DavidInNaples...with all of this talent and all of these learning experiences (as she says in her press conferences), when will there be a payoff? Not even in the form of a national title, but in the form of a Final Four berth. If she does not make the Final Four this year, I have to wonder if she will ever make one, no matter how many All-Americans she has on her roster.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
2,338
Reaction Score
5,600
Notre Dame is not beating UConn this year, next year or the year after that, the demon was exorcized, and put to rest in the 1st half of the national semi-final by Stewie. You can believe that every time she sees a Notre Dame uniform in the future, she and they will remember that game.
 

Geno-ista

Embracing the New Look!!!
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
2,467
Reaction Score
3,537
Duke I believe started 3 Seniors, 1 Junior and Sophomore. I have to believe if Geno coached at Duke for 4 years, the starting players would be significantly improved. Gray and Williams were ranked as Top of their classes in different recruiting services. Kaleena and Stewie were tops in UConn classes with Moriah rated #2 in some recruiting services. Coming out of High School there is not much difference between Duke and UConn players. The development and system that UConn has is where there is a significant difference that has led to the blowouts.
Wbbfan1- that is the real essence of this entire series w Duke and our program. They/Duke have the same high ranked recruits that we do. They are deeper and older than us. And we push them around every year. I'm now convinced that Muffet is the other best coach in the womens game- Tara, Jeff Walz & Mathew ? @ Kentucky. We just play harder and smarter than everyone else on both sides of the ball most of the time. Our talent did not come out of HS 20-30 pts better than all these other high recruits.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
365
Reaction Score
732
I don't think for a second that McCallie is in the same league with Geno, but I would ask, assuming a UConn starting lineup of Dolson, Stewart, Mosqueda-Lewis, Hartley and Jefferson, 'which players on the Duke team would start at UConn?' ...certainly not Williams, Peters or Liston and probably not Jones...maybe Gray, but that's not a certainty either. 'Which Duke subs would play ahead of UConn's bench?' Chidom or Cooper over Tuck or Stokes? I don't think so. I don't think I'd take Jackson or Wells over Banks? Add in the best coaching staff in the game and is it so hard to see why Duke gets thumped?
No, it isn't hard to see why Duke and everyone else gets thumped. Geno is the best coach in the game and he has the best group of talent in the country - by far. There may be a few individual players that are as or more talented than some of the UConn players (i.e. Odyssey Sims, Chiney Ogwumike), but I think even Geno would have a hard time beating this UConn team with any other current college roster.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,008
Reaction Score
8,970
No, it isn't hard to see why Duke and everyone else gets thumped. Geno is the best coach in the game and he has the best group of talent in the country - by far. There may be a few individual players that are as or more talented than some of the UConn players (i.e. Odyssey Sims, Chiney Ogwumike), but I think even Geno would have a hard time beating this UConn team with any other current college roster.
I totally agree. There is talent, and Duke has plenty and there is TALENT and that is what UConn has.

They have probably top 5 by position for every starter and Stewart, KML and Dolson are probably the best at their position. Tuck, Banks, Stokes and Chong are the best bench.

Geno is a great coach and with this amount of talent, you probably have another undefeated season.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
637
Reaction Score
1,198
I don't think for a second that McCallie is in the same league with Geno, but I would ask, assuming a UConn starting lineup of Dolson, Stewart, Mosqueda-Lewis, Hartley and Jefferson, 'which players on the Duke team would start at UConn?' ...certainly not Williams, Peters or Liston and probably not Jones...maybe Gray, but that's not a certainty either. 'Which Duke subs would play ahead of UConn's bench?' Chidom or Cooper over Tuck or Stokes? I don't think so. I don't think I'd take Jackson or Wells over Banks? Add in the best coaching staff in the game and is it so hard to see why Duke gets thumped?

Be careful here. Those players from Duke are very good. There is little or no signs that they are selfish, etc. And if I'm not mistaken we had recruited some of them. The explanation(s) may be in the tradition of expectations of both schools and how players are called upon to become better- both individually and as a team. There is a video interview of Bria, Bre and Steph. where Bria says- 'you don't do things over and over until you get it right, you do it until you can't get it wrong'(para.) Every past and current uconn player have spoken out about this relentless search for excellence. The Dukies will 'never be royal' until they learn (some part of) this.
 

Replicant

Nexus 6 Leader
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,949
Reaction Score
8,783
No. 2 Duke Falls to No. 1 UConn 83-61 (2013-2014)

"So it’s a very good learning experience for us as a team. We’ll go from here."

"Without question it’s great for us to learn and recognize what we have to do as a group. Plenty of games coming up…I know people like to make a big deal about it because it’s No. 1 and No. 2 and all of that. I think the bigger deal is the Final Four. That’s the biggest deal and trying to pursue a national championship at that level and this helps us in our journey to get better and figure things out. Whether it’s ball movement, whether it’s stops on defense. There are quite a few things we can look at."




No. 4 Duke Falls to No. 3 Connecticut 79-49 (2012-2013)

"It was a tale of two halves for us," McCallie said. "It's consistent for us, how we've been playing all year. We played some great 20-minute ball, but have been non-existent for 40 minutes. Give credit to Connecticut. They played well in the second half. There are some great lessons for us to learn from. It will allow us to become a better team."



No. 3 UConn Tops No. 5 Duke 61-45 (2011-2012)

"Obviously just a really defensive basketball game and a physical game. Great battle, a great opportunity for us. We took a lot of shots. And I think, hopefully, we're going to learn a valuable lesson when we watch on film as we don't move the basketball and we don't connect and play together."

"But in the same sense, I bet we might have been able to do better there. I'll look at the film. It's a great lesson for us. We need to learn. We need to learn how to play together and play off each other in those situations. We took a lot of rushed shots - off-balanced and rushed."

"These are the things that allow a team to have a history like Connecticut has or somebody else. These are the things that separate banners and not. And we've got to understand that, we've got to learn from that. We've got to be open to that and recognize that there's a lot in here for us to pull."




Duke Falls to Top-Ranked UConn, 75-40, in Regional Final (2011 NCAA Tournament)

"I do think it's a learning process with young players and new circumstances. Connecticut has not lost in the NCAA Tournament in three years, that's a lot of tradition for our kids to understand."

"Again, you have to give credit to UConn, they shot 72 percent in the second half, 59 percent for the game, we didn't disrupt them much. They played terrifically, much better than they did against Georgetown which I'm sure they were trying to do. Just lessons for us, lessons that we'll take and learn from."



No. 3 Duke Suffers First Loss at No. 2 Connecticut, 87-51 (2010-2011)

"How many times can you keep letting someone punch you?" said Duke coach Joanne P. McCallie. "I mean, the outcome was never in question here. You all know that. I am about the process and the fight, and we had no fight."



No. 6 Duke Falls to No. 1 UConn, 81-48 (2009-2010)

"I'm excited for ACC play, we've got a great game on Thursday night and we'll get right at it," McCallie said. "A little film in the morning always brightens your day and allows us to learn what we need to learn and we'll move forward."



No. 2 UConn Knocks Off No. 9 Duke, 74-48 (2007-2008)

First-year Duke coach Joanne McCallie, who suffered her first loss with the team, said this year's Connecticut team is one of the deepest she has seen.

"They outrebounded us, they played more physical than we did and they definitely shared the ball a little better than we did," she said. "They're ahead of us at this time of the year. They were very strong and very well balanced in their attack."
McCallie needs a new teleprompter! ;)

I feel your pain Cam....I may be a UConn fanatic, but I'm also a Cowboys one and have suffered from Romo's mediocrity and ineptitude for 8 torturous years now. :( He's also been saying the same post-game pablum (after every heart breaking loss) for 8 years running.
 

Tonyc

Optimus Prime
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,432
Reaction Score
34,634
Cam I read your thread on the Devils Den. Interesting and insightful. There is an ole saying...if you cant change your people then you change your people. On a side note. There aren't many teams that have competed with UConn over the years . Coach P got what most coaches get when they play UConn. Geno is a special coach. He doesn't settle for less they what he wants and he demands the best. Other coaches imo don't push their players like Geno does. The difference is Genos approach to the game. That's why when he's recruiting kids he's looking for kids that will play for him not be just team members. Maybe that's why he has a short roster this season. A lot of kids want to come to UConn but its all about the commitment they must make to Genos team system. Other coaches just want talented AAs. Coach P need to make changes as do many other coaches if they want to compete with UConn. That's just the way it is. I hear the frustration on the Devils Den but unless P changes her approach she'll keep getting what shes getting when she plays UConn until Geno retires.
 

CamrnCrz1974

Good Guy for a Dookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
2,040
Reaction Score
11,898
Joanne P. McCallie ‏@CoachPDuke 15h
So appreciate great fans! Cameron was incredible last night. Our intensity did not match all who cheered, but we are grateful. #Lessons

The tire marks on the players backs are getting deeper and deeper.

If only she spent as much time focusing on player development, in-game adjustments, creating countermoves and counter-to-countermoves for game preparation as much as she spends time on Twitter. She has more Tweets than followers.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
291
Reaction Score
430
I think the real question Duke has to ask themselves is "Does notre dame. Louisville, etc have more talented teams?" if the answer is no (spoiler alert it is) than their talent is not reaching its potential, and something needs to change. It is obviously not the kids (they have changed many times). therefore the problem must be coaching. If Walz and Muffet are constantly doing better than you are with less talent, than obviously their coaching must be better, and something has to change.
 

ChicagoGG

Windy City Kitty
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,983
Reaction Score
2,970
If only she spent as much time focusing on player development, in-game adjustments, creating countermoves and counter-to-countermoves for game preparation as much as she spends time on Twitter. She has more Tweets than followers.

Ba-Zing!!
 

cabbie191

Jonathan Husky on a date with Holi
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,537
Reaction Score
3,730
Camm - I do feel bad for you. But, while there was surely a thumping Tuesday night, I think my take on this year's game is a bit different from others. Once Duke got down, they didn't quit. They made a couple of runs, including one in the second half that surprised me a bit. Last year the Blue Devils totally gave up the ghost once they lost control of the game. Even though they didn't play a full hard 40-minute game, they showed some spark.
 

cabbie191

Jonathan Husky on a date with Holi
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,537
Reaction Score
3,730
If I post up MoJet you will never see her.

Well for sure. Do the math - one Icebear's body mass = two human players when it comes to setting a screen. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
503
Guests online
2,658
Total visitors
3,161

Forum statistics

Threads
157,142
Messages
4,085,107
Members
9,981
Latest member
Vincent22


Top Bottom