OT: Ahmad Nowell's HS Season Opener

[OceanDoggie]

Having control off the ball is a skill--not athleticism.

Sure, and I agree with this statement, but observing an athlete's ability to maintain control throughout an explosive effort tells a lot about that athlete's ability access the next gear. There are hundreds of sloppy athlete's that can raise the level of effort to explode on a play, but are never fully in control of their balance or the ball.

 

[ctchamps]

The coaches are targeting players who have a don’t quit attitude, a strong desire and capability to learn and improve, and have skills that can be successful in complex offensive and defensive team play.

It’s not that a player can pass well or rebound well or dribble well or shoot well. It’s a player who can see multiple things happening on the court simultaneously and quickly process better and best options in a constantly dynamic changing situation and make the right plays.

Good peripheral vision, good reflexes, good stamina, good motor, good strength, ability to learn quickly, ability to process multiple things quickly and effectively are valued as much if not more than athleticism and individual skills.

Nowell exemplifies this. I’ve watched enough of his play to know he has his own variation of team play that we see in Solo, Tristen, Stephon, Cam, Alex, and Hassan.

 

[husky429]

Sure, and I agree with this statement, but observing an athlete's ability to maintain control throughout an explosive effort tells a lot about that athlete's ability access the next gear. There are hundreds of sloppy athlete's that can raise the level of effort to explode on a play, but are never fully in control of their balance or the ball.

I think we're just defining athleticism differently. I've had plenty of fantastic athlete's on my teams who couldn't get to the next gear with the ball in their hands. Usually football players. That's a skill gap, not an athleticism gap.

You can define it however you want, but if that's how you think of athleticism, you're going to lose a lot of folks in translation.

 

[OceanDoggie]

I think we're just defining athleticism differently. I've had plenty of fantastic athlete's on my teams who couldn't get to the next gear with the ball in their hands. Usually football players. That's a skill gap, not an athleticism gap.

You can define it however you want, but if that's how you think of athleticism, you're going to lose a lot of folks in translation.

It's all relative to be honest, so I can't imagine anything lost in translation. hand-eye coordination can be considered a skill, because it can be improved upon. However, it is also just as much an innate ability that individuals are born with on a gradient scale. Which will undoubtedly filter out most of those who started out their journey where that "skill" is necessary at the highest level.

 

[husky429]

hand-eye coordination can be considered a skill, because it can be improved upon.

Does this mean you think someone can't improve their athleticism? Why do we have an S&C coach making 150k a year? Lol.

I would consider hand-eye coordination a part of athleticism. Steph Curry is a great athlete in part because of his hand-eye coordination. The ability to dribble through traffic is NOT athleticism--that is a skill one develops using athleticism.

 

[OceanDoggie]

Hand-eye coordination isn't a skill--it's part of athleticism. USING hand-eye coordination to dribble a basketball through defenders is a skill.

Then you must agree that not every skill can be learned. You try and teach a football player for 20 years and He not achieve the level of control and balance displayed by Nowell. Can't have it both ways. If you argue both sides, you work your argument into a logical fallacy.

 

[OceanDoggie]

Does this mean you think someone can't improve their athleticism? Why do we have an S&C coach making 150k a year? Lol.

Of course it can. The coach is there precisely to do just that.

 

[husky429]

Then you must agree that not every skill can be learned. You try and teach a football player for 20 years and He not achieve the level of control and balance displayed by Nowell. Can't have it both ways. If you argue both sides, you work your argument into a logical fallacy.

Of course not every skill can be learned. Everyone has cognitive and physical limitations. I will never learn the skill of playing chess at a high level because I'm stupid. I will never kick someone in the head again because I injured my back.

I really have no idea what you're getting at. What am I having both ways?

The difference is probably that athleticism can allow for more effective use of skill, and even steepen the skill-learning curve. Whereas skill doesn't really improve athleticism... you have to get in the gym to improve that.

 

[husky429]

Of course it can. The coach is there precisely to do just that.

You're not understanding what you wrote then: "hand-eye coordination can be considered a skill, because it can be improved upon."

What you're implying is that only skills can be improved, which seemed odd. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[OceanDoggie]

The difference is probably that athleticism can allow for more effective use of skill, and even steepen the skill-learning curve. Whereas skill doesn't really improve athleticism... you have to get in the gym to improve that.

..and this, my friend, is the observational differential I see between Nowell and Ball.

 

[husky429]

..and this, my friend, is the observational differential I see beetween Nowell and Ball.

You're thinking you made a really good point here but I still have no idea what argument you think you've won.

I never said Ahmad had less skill than Solo. He's much more skilled than Solo at the same stage of development. I said that half a dozen posts ago.

That doesn't change the fact that Solo is a much better athlete than Ahmad. Stronger, faster, more explosive.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'd keep in mind that many of the highlights you see are sped up by 10% to make the kids look faster.

Doesn't it also speed up the defense by 10%?

 

[OceanDoggie]

You're not understanding what you wrote then: "hand-eye coordination can be considered a skill, because it can be improved upon."

What you're implying is that only skills can be improved, which seemed odd. Thanks for clarifying.

No Sir, I think your misunderstanding, perhaps, is misattributed to that supposed implication. I've simply juxtaposed H&E coordination to display the inconsistent definition you're using to describe athleticism.

 

[OceanDoggie]

You're thinking you made a really good point here but I still have no idea what argument you think you've won.

Not at all. I think I may have "assisted" you somewhat In agreeing with Me, even if indirectly. It's all good. I enjoyed the chat!

 

[Palatine]

Speaking of freshman, Napier played a ton of point as a frosh. It allowed Calhoun to move Kemba off the ball. That worked out pretty well.

 

[James]

Diarra has been so impressive to me this year, absolutely stellar defender who is hitting shots, making the right passes and gets aggressive downhill with a good first step. Would be kinda shocking if he comes in and is better than diarra, but can't wait to see both of these guys run the show if thats the case.

 

[OceanDoggie]

Diarra has been so impressive to me this year, absolutely stellar defender who is hitting shots, making the right passes and gets aggressive downhill with a good first step. Would be kinda shocking if he comes in and is better than diarra, but can't wait to see both of these guys run the show if thats the case.

I had no expectations of him coming Into the season, but I think with more minutes under his belt he will prove more valuable than Alleyne.

 

[husky429]

Doesn't it also speed up the defense by 10%?

Yes but the average hs player plays defense at about 60% effort, so it still looks slow.

 

[Hurleyman216]

This kid definitely reminds me a little of Kemba the couple times I’ve seen him live, but those are some big shoes to fill. He’s gonna be a 3-4 year stud for us.

 

[aceboon]

This page pretty much posts highlights from every game

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Ahmad has incredible power - stout, physical, quick guard that is a handful for players six inches (or more) taller than him. Throw-back Big East guard that will be awesome for the good guys.

 

[husky429]

This page pretty much posts highlights from every game

Most of his full games so far have been posted as well.