A weak link in Geno's armor

[BroadwayVa]

Geno is one of the all time great coaches. I would view the OT stats as more a factor of him going all out in regular season and playoffs and having a team that is somewhat worn down by lack of substitutions throughout playoffs and regular season. The 11 championships back up the worth of this strategy. Unreasonable to think it will work 100% of the time. Stats also indicate the downside which also includes a high number of stress fractures and related injuries. Worn down teams make mistakes as we saw in the last game.

Interesting thoughts---I read this and was about to argue against it--but--you make some good points. Ones I didn't consider
I would have argued that : Uconn had 2 or so weeks between end of season and NCAA's OR Uconn played it core 5 less and less as the season progressed ( but still 27 or more minutes). My final argument would have been---they are kids.
But you are certainly correct in saying : When the body is depleted the mind finds it hard to think. In game situations --each decision must be a reaction to an event--if you delay you are lost.
Over the years Geno has stayed with typically 8 players ---everyone else has to wait for PT especially in the NC's --other coaches, not as successful as Geno, rotate people in and out of games nearly every stoppage of the clock--keeping everyone a bit fresher. As a Uconn fan , for a long time, I praised the conditioning of Uconn's players--but that comes at a price (too much continuous PT) --I doubt you'll see that next year.

 

[UcMiami]

Long thread on this subject already, to which I added a very long post - the conclusion of which was Uconn losses over the last decade have been 'outliers' whether they be by single digits or in OT games or the very few that they lost by more than 10. Those losses are similar to the outliers at the other end - wins against top 15 teams by 40+ points.

Basically Uconn playing regulation to a tie score already means they are not playing well so then losing in OT is just a continuation of the previous 40 minutes of not playing well and do we really expect a change in the 5 minutes OT when they couldn't get it together in the first 40 minutes.

It is also worth noting that three of the 6 OT losses in a row were part of a string of 7 losses in 9 games to a single team - ND over the space of a two year period - also an unheard of record against any opponent. They were during that stretch dominated by ND and so again getting some of those games into overtime was a 'minor victory' in itself.

The last two losses - Stanford and MSS - can anyone with a straight face say that Uconn played their A game in either of those games? Yes their opponents had something to do with that, but over the course of the five years during which those two losses occurred, Uconn faced many equally tough defenses and effective offenses and were still able to dismantle them and be victorious.

OT Losses. Why?

 

[VidNick]

Geno plays as few players as he can get away with playing. Makes things simple for him. If he has a player who he considers has great promise, he will get them some quality minutes. that's about it. The rest are for the occasional injury, foul trouble. But mostly they are practice players. Do players go in knowing they will just be practice players? I don't know, but I suspect they are not told that when being recruited. If the NCAA did not require a player to sit out a year (bad rule) many more players would move because Players want to Play. The players that seem to grow after a year or two are in for only one reason: they are one of the "few" at that point in time. If Crystal was all that she was cracked up to be, Soniya would have been on the bench. I read on these boards that so and so who transferred didn't amount to much. So what? If they got to play, I suspect they were happy.

 

[CL82]

While it's true that UCONN DID NOT WIN IN O.T. ---did you ever consider that SHOULD UCONN GET INTO O.T. --it meant they were in a game they would have LOST in regular time--i.e. O.T. just meant Uconn played them into O.t.
My point is Uconn is NOT destined to win all games--and work their tails off to LOSE in O.T.
It is NOT a weakness--it's a strength to have taken those teams to O.T.
If you see a TREND in Uconn losing in O.T.--
Why don't you see the TREND of UConn winning---they have won hundreds of more games in regular time than they have lost in O.T.

This.

Another way of looking at those facts are that when UConn he does lose a game, it is still very close. The fact that our last two streaks were lost in overtime by a single bucket isn't weakness in my view. It is a testament to the strength Of the program and just how difficult it is to beat us.

 

[UcMiami]

Worth noting in terms of 'young teams':
1. 2017 - MSS - 1.5 returning starters from the NC team lead and dominated by seniors
2. 2014 - Stanford - second game of year after senior Stef and Bria graduated with 2 new starters
3. 2013 -ND - team led by juniors Stef and Bria, soph KML, senior Kelly and freshman Tiffany (7 of 8 stretch to ND)
4. 2012 - ND - team led by sophomores Stef and Bria, freshman KML, junior Kelly and senior Tiffany (7 of 8 stretch to ND) Year after Maya graduated
5. 2012 - ND - team led by sophomores Stef and Bria, freshman KML, junior Kelly and senior Tiffany (7 of 8 stretch to ND) Year after Maya graduated
6. 2006 - Duke - team led by freshman Rene, sophs Charde, Brittany, and seniors Ann, Willnett, and Barb

12 years. 6 overtime losses by somewhat flawed/inexperienced teams with a group of three in the middle to ND when they 'had Uconn's number'

12 year period 434-24 so 18 non-OT losses and 6 OT losses in a span where they have 120+ wins against ranked teams

 

[VidNick]

Despite the rumours to the contrary, the talent pool in WCBB is very shallow. The high school player ratings are for the most part nonsense, just a way to pump up parents to cough up a lot of money for showcases, travel ball, etc. Same in baThere are few Really good players are few and far between and having just one on a team can make a big difference.

 

[chrissaran]

Geno's instructions were clear. He didn't rush the last shot.

 

[Wally East]

You mean we didn't have any 1 of the 4 greatest college/pro players in history? Well, how many coaches since 1995 have had even 1 such player? I think only Summit and Mulkey and more than coincidentally they won Championships with those players too. We were very blessed to have had these players. How many of out National Championships were won without them? One I think.

1995 and 2000.

2000 was the only time UConn won a title without also having the POY.

The best correlation I have found to winning titles: #1 high school recruits. UConn needs two to win a title and it's been like this for every title from 2000 forward.

And I don't mean that having two or more guarantees a title (although, it does become very likely) but that NOT having two or more guarantees no title.

 

[Henry]

Did anybody think that maybe as poorly as we have played in some of those games that Geno actually may have helped keep the game close to give us a chance to win? When was the last time the women were blown out? Plus, he coaches his players to play all out and that usually leads to us blowing the other team out.

 

[Frenchy]

Frenchy (I like that handle) that's where you are wrong.

Next year (2017-18) AND the following year (2018-19) UCONN will go undefeated.

Soooo, how about this record on or about April 6, 2019:
..extraordinary accomplishment 240 wins of 244 games.
I agree on paper they will have a heck of a team the next couple of years, but there are always some unpredictable bad bounces, like injuries, sickness, bad referees. Even for a well running organization like Geno's team snafus happen. I don't remember going three years without making a mistake even with tedious preparation and dedication to what ever I do.
Uconn WBB is in a world of their own!

Wont have to worry much about winning late or in OT.....

AND, look at this this 7 already on the roster for 2019-2020....
Batouly Camara
Crystal Dangerfield
Andra Espinoza-Hunter
Mikayla Coombs
Lexi Gordon
Megan Walker
Charli Collier

Can't see a loss for the next 3 years.....try 120 in a row during that time...


Just SAYIN...

 

[GoUconn7961]

Maybe someone has already made this point, but the ending of the Mississippi State game reminded me of the end of the 1999 men's championship game, when Duke senior Trajan Langdon tried to drive the lane and was stopped (traveled? lost the ball?) with the likes of underclassmen Elton Brand, Shane Battier and Chris Carrawell (maybe also Maggette?)on the floor.

He tripped over his own feet - a thing of beauty...

 

[ctfjr]

I'd gladly take being 11-0 in championship games.

Funny, I'd rather it was 12-0

 

[ctfjr]

Maybe someone has already made this point, but the ending of the Mississippi State game reminded me of the end of the 1999 men's championship game, when Duke senior Trajan Langdon tried to drive the lane and was stopped (traveled? lost the ball?) with the likes of underclassmen Elton Brand, Shane Battier and Chris Carrawell (maybe also Maggette?)on the floor.

He tripped over his own feet - a thing of beauty...

IIRC this play made me apoplectic. I forget who the announcer was. Langdon was driving on Ricky Moore and the brain trust said something to the effect, "I don't understand this. He is driving on the best defensive player of the tournament, so far." So far? There was 10 seconds left to the tournament. What was going to happen in 10 seconds to change Moore's performance. btw tripping over his own feet? thank Moore for that, just an awesome defense he put on him.

 

[Geno-ista]

Geno even admitted that the Stanford ot loss was his fault. All they had to do was foul on the last play of regulation when they were up 3 points. Uconn doesn't practice those situations enough since their games are all usually blowouts. As i said in the other thread chong shouldn't have had the ball at the end of the game, it has to be the best player on the court to have it especially when its tied and there's no way you can lose even if they just let the time run out.

Somebody, Kia Stokes I think got the ball real early in the shot clock between foul line and 3 pt line, really late in game, panicked w ball, and threw up a brick. If we just burned that shot clock we probably win that gm. We did come apart with that gm being ours to lose.

 

[Geno-ista]

I was at the Duke Gm, at the XL/Civic Center with Diana. They turned us over 3-4 times late. To win on that last second three falling away. I was there/Gampel for St Johns loss. And I was at Rutgers for the loss with Renee Montgomery when we came apart at the end of the gm. I may start staying hm!

 

[UcMiami]

I was at the Duke Gm, at the XL/Civic Center with Diana. They turned us over 3-4 times late. To win on that last second three falling away. I was there/Gampel for St Johns loss. And I was at Rutgers for the loss with Renee Montgomery when we came apart at the end of the gm. I may start staying hm!

So you are saying you personally are the weak link in this whole thing?!

 

[Geno-ista]

So you are saying you personally are the weak link in this whole thing?!

It took a while to sink in- but yes! That's what I'm saying!

 

[wire chief]

Geno even admitted that the Stanford ot loss was his fault. All they had to do was foul on the last play of regulation when they were up 3 points. Uconn doesn't practice those situations enough since their games are all usually blowouts. As i said in the other thread chong shouldn't have had the ball at the end of the game, it has to be the best player on the court to have it especially when its tied and there's no way you can lose even if they just let the time run out.

Well, let's call it the best player for the situation. Remember when a back-up point guard in a designed play dribbled the length of the court vs. DePaul?

 

[uconn_nyc]

He does not play his bench and hardly ever has.

I've been a UConn fan since 1995. I have sometimes wondered. On the one hand, yes, I do understand the reason coach Auriemma does not play many players during the season is because he wants to develop cohesion-trust-syncronization among the starters. But, on the other hand, in those blowouts, why not give the bench a chance to develop in real time situations in case their help is needed due to foul trouble or illness or injury? Even better, even in games that are close, give meaninful minutes to the bench, make them feel the pressure of the real games. But hey, my coaching experience is limited to watching games on TV. I think Geno knows more about coaching than I do

 

[BroadwayVa]

This.

Another way of looking at those facts are that when UConn he does lose a game, it is still very close. The fact that our last two streaks were lost in overtime by a single bucket isn't weakness in my view. It is a testament to the strength Of the program and just how difficult it is to beat us.

If my faulty memory is accurate---I believe that ND beat UConn 7 times once in 3 OT (KML was a frosh with a bad ankle missed the winning shot, rimming out---the total of points Uconn lost those 7 games to ND was 18 point--Uconn took them to the NC' and beat Uconn by----drum roll---18 points. If my memory is faulty don't tell me--I love this story.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Worth noting in terms of 'young teams':
1. 2017 - MSS - 1.5 returning starters from the NC team lead and dominated by seniors
2. 2014 - Stanford - second game of year after senior Stef and Bria graduated with 2 new starters
3. 2013 -ND - team led by juniors Stef and Bria, soph KML, senior Kelly and freshman Tiffany (7 of 8 stretch to ND)
4. 2012 - ND - team led by sophomores Stef and Bria, freshman KML, junior Kelly and senior Tiffany (7 of 8 stretch to ND) Year after Maya graduated
5. 2012 - ND - team led by sophomores Stef and Bria, freshman KML, junior Kelly and senior Tiffany (7 of 8 stretch to ND) Year after Maya graduated
6. 2006 - Duke - team led by freshman Rene, sophs Charde, Brittany, and seniors Ann, Willnett, and Barb

12 years. 6 overtime losses by somewhat flawed/inexperienced teams with a group of three in the middle to ND when they 'had Uconn's number'

12 year period 434-24 so 18 non-OT losses and 6 OT losses in a span where they have 120+ wins against ranked teams

Whew!!!!! Again your surf board must be near worn out. thanks.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Just to show how spoiled we are as Uconn WBB fans. I was reading a comment from a fan on this board that Geno's cannot win in OT games. Lets look at the record, yes he lost the last three such games:
3/4/2013 at ND 87-96 in 3rd OT; 11/17/2014 at Stanford 86-88 OT; 4/2/2017 in NCAA Semi FF in Dallas
vs Miss St 64-66 OT. So during that span 3 years & 29 days Geno lost a total of 4 games 3 in OT and the (Conf Champ game to ND on 3/12/20130) while winning a total of 160 games which include the NCAA record of 111 consecutive wins.
Lets smell the roses!

I think the real takeaway is that of the very few games Geno's teams ever lose, most of them are so close that many actually go to overtime...there is no way that's a knock on the program, Geno, or the players...

 

[BroadwayVa]

Despite the rumours to the contrary, the talent pool in WCBB is very shallow. The high school player ratings are for the most part nonsense, just a way to pump up parents to cough up a lot of money for showcases, travel ball, etc. Same in baThere are few Really good players are few and far between and having just one on a team can make a big difference.

Wow!! don't think much of WBB do you?? I could agree if you said the ratiings of Some HS kids is a joke--but by and large the ratings of Most HS top players is fairly accurate--no rating system is perfect.

Over the years with Uconn Tn ND Duke Women, and MEN---having ONE outstanding player has meant the difference from a very very good year to a ho hum year--
Geno has stated often: What makes a great coach is great recruiting of the great player--but he has taken mediocre to better than fair player and made them superb ROLE players--some role players became
top level players--but many came in at the top of their game--and got better.
But Money, Parents, showcase, Travel--all make money for someone other than the players--that's true even in college. cynic's aren't we.