A less ebullient view of our next two classes (Prospects Nation)

[winlots]

Prospects Nation seems to rank our '14 and '15 kids more conservatively overall than do the other rating services.

For some examples: Ekmark at #26 overall, Williams at 19, Boykin at 12. But even if you take the PN perspective as gospel, things look pretty darn good. Here is how they rank our kids at their specific positions as designated by PN:

Collier as #2 Forward, Boykin as #4F, Samuelson as #1 Wing, WIlliams as #2 Guard, Ekmark as #3G,
and Edwards as #4 Point. So, even from the most conservative "take" I've found on these two classes, we have six kids ranked, as an average, at approximately #2.5 for the four positions covered......none worse than 4th in their respective classes.....and all that on the SAME team for three years.

Now, factor in for those two groups that Nurse did not appear to be included, probably by virtue of not playing in the US, and Butler was not included because she is a collegian. We can put Nurse in at the Point position as the #1 PG in Canada without much question, given that she is already on their national team......so that should strengthen the rating score at that position. Butler can be inserted at the Center/Post position....6'5" Frosh of Year for Big east and #5 rebounder in country already.....suggests a very decent ranking at that final slot.

All in all: mighty! (And there are two other classes of terrific young women on the same squad.) Yeh, I know we all know all this, but I'm pumped and thought you might find interesting this different way of looking at the same exciting picture.

 

[jsloanjr]

NP.....Most of these services are not worth the paper they are written on.......Look at all the TENN classes that were supposed to be 5 **** Plus....What happened........Some injuries and most of them were overrated......Geno and staff know the type of players they need to win and he gets them........I think UCONN's classes will only get better and better.SCARY!!!

 

[Icebear]

All services are suspect. That's ALL SERVICES. The compound synthesis done by VG evens out many of the flaws.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Does Geno and his staff use these rankings? If not then there's no point in looking at them.

 

[meyers7]

All services are suspect. That's ALL. The compound synthesis done by VG evens out many of the flaws.

I've gone to combining them all myself and just coming up with an average. Any outliers kinda get swallowed up.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Prospects Nation seems to rank our '14 and '15 kids more conservatively overall than do the other rating services.

A few months ago, there was a thread about how it was ESPN/Hoopgurlz who was ranking UConn players lower/more conservatively than others (e.g., Faris, Dolson).

Rankings services are about where players are right now, with some allowances for their potential/ceiling. There are shoe contracts that may influence things.

Not every service sees every player at every major event. If a player is evaluated based on five major events and has a few klunkers, that player will be ranked lower. That is not the fault of the ranking service; it is just a reality of life. Not every player can be evaluated at every single event (not every player attends every major event; there is a lot less money in these services than in men's sports; etc.).

Also, the rankings do not take into account what a player does in college. For example, does a player get injured? How does a player respond, in terms of maturity and growth, while balancing academics?

Think about it...would Dolson have become who she is or close to who she is under other coaches? I would say "likely" under Muffet (she did wonders with Achonwa). Maybe Mulkey would have helped her (Griner's game expanded during her time there). Possibly under VanDerveer. Walz improves his players, but his bread and butter seems to be perimeter players/wings.

So is it fair to say, after four years of college, that the ESPN/Hoopgurlz ranking of Dolson was suspect? I do not believe so; it was where ESPN/Hoopgurlz her saw her at that point in time, based on the number of times she was seen and evaluated. We all know what work she did with Geno (conditioning, weight loss, expanded passing game, greater shooting range, etc.).

Not really fair to the ranking service look at it four years later (after the best coaching in the game and all of the improvements made by the UConn coaching staff and Dolson herself) and point fingers. And it is not like ESPN/Hoopgurlz could just say, "Based on what we have seen, we have Dolson ranked at #36, but because she is going to UConn, we are bumping her up to #8." That would be projecting four years of unknown.

And here is the other factor...Geno has his own player evaluations. He saw skills in Dolson with which he could work and improve. Perhaps Geno evalutes players based on his knowledge of what he can do with them based on where they are now. That is not the job of the recruiting ranking/service. But it is why Geno is the best in the business when it comes to his job.

 

[UcMiami]

I just figure if Uconn has an incoming class of 4 then they are ranked #1-4 in some order and if the class is three then 1-3, etc. Much easier and that way most recruits disappoint because I expect them all to be DT or Maya or Rebecca.
(That is certainly what I take away from this board - if they aren't currently ranked #1, they were and have since been unfairly dropped, or they should be #1 and the board is confident their superior quality will be recognized when the rankings are updated!)

 

[Kibitzer]

I persist in my view that nothing is either more important or more difficult than to evaluate talent, especially when trying to project the performance of talent at the next level.

If you disagree, I invite your attention to the various mock NBA drafts now being published by knowledgeable authors. Or look at how WNBA coaches/GMs (just like their NFL counterparts) misfire so often when they draft collegians (after great scouting expenditures).

I believe that the collective evaluation of hs wbb talent by the various services provides a reasonable measure of quality at that level. Geno's genius lies in his uncanny ability to envision what a 16- or 17-year old girl will be like as a wcbb player three or four years later.

 

[UcMiami]

Kib - absolutely agree and it is harder because these kids are still physically immature as well as emotionally. At least by the end of college most of them are done growing and have added another 20% in age so are much closer to a finished product.
Add in that coaching and teammates make a huge difference in high school, in development in college, and in transition to pros and 'scouting' is a very inexact science.

 

[Sonny44]

I just figure if Uconn has an incoming class of 4 then they are ranked #1-4 in some order and if the class is three then 1-3, etc. Much easier and that way most recruits disappoint because I expect them all to be DT or Maya or Rebecca.
(That is certainly what I take away from this board - if they aren't currently ranked #1, they were and have since been unfairly dropped, or they should be #1 and the board is confident their superior quality will be recognized when the rankings are updated!)

See below please.

 

[Zorro]

All services are suspect. That's ALL SERVICES. The compound synthesis done by VG evens out many of the flaws.

Well, excepting, of course, your Sunday services, which are above suspicion.

 

[Icebear]

Well, excepting, of course, your Sunday services, which are above suspicion.

Hee, Hee, Hee, you've never been to one.

 

[Shenandoah]

Ranking HS players is difficult enough, for many factors. Competition level, position that they play, team and league that they play on. It also doesn't take into account the individual player's personal makeup. When we lived in Tennessee, I saw a HS running back, 6'2", 210, with world class sprinters speed. Watching him was like watching Jim Brown playing against a Pop Warner team; he was that dominant. Sadly, last I heard, he was in jail for dealing crack cocaine...That's an extreme example, obviously, but it illustrrates that many factors come into play between HS and College that can and will affect their success in college. It also makes me proud of the young women that come to play basketball UConn...

 

[cohenzone]

Hee, Hee, Hee, you've never been to one.

I've never seen your services, which makes me as qualified as anyone to rank them. I'm still waiting for my membership application. BTW, just back from all the Scandanavian countries and saw Lutheran churches galore and some pretty good looking blondes and one or two amazing bears.

 

[winlots]

I've never seen your services, which makes me as qualified as anyone to rank them.

COHEN: The implication being that no one has been to his services??

 

[slimmer56]

Prospects Nation does as good a job as any of the other services I guess. As we all know recruiting is not an exact science. As one poster said, Geno does his own evaluations. SAMPLE: When he was recruiting Stef, and everybody asked him, "Why are you recruiting this girl"? Geno saw different things than other coaches / evaluators did. He said every time that girl gets knocked off her feet she jumps up and gets down the floor as fast as she can. She was teachable and coachable, which MOST girls are when deciding to come to UCONN.
What was it ol' Bum Phillips said, He can take hisn and beat you or he can take yorn and still beat you.
To me that is Geno, and I never forget how lucky we are to have him !
Nice thread DOC.

 

[Icebear]

I've never seen your services, which makes me as qualified as anyone to rank them. I'm still waiting for my membership application. BTW, just back from all the Scandanavian countries and saw Lutheran churches galore and some pretty good looking blondes and one or two amazing bears.

This Sunday I am helping out at an 11-11 Blues plus Music and Arts Festival to benefit the local Food Pantry. Come to Central PA and join us at the local Lions' Park.

 

[hoophuskee]

A few months ago, there was a thread about how it was ESPN/Hoopgurlz who was ranking UConn players lower/more conservatively than others (e.g., Faris, Dolson).

Rankings services are about where players are right now, with some allowances for their potential/ceiling. There are shoe contracts that may influence things.

Not every service sees every player at every major event. If a player is evaluated based on five major events and has a few klunkers, that player will be ranked lower. That is not the fault of the ranking service; it is just a reality of life. Not every player can be evaluated at every single event (not every player attends every major event; there is a lot less money in these services than in men's sports; etc.).

Also, the rankings do not take into account what a player does in college. For example, does a player get injured? How does a player respond, in terms of maturity and growth, while balancing academics?

Think about it...would Dolson have become who she is or close to who she is under other coaches? I would say "likely" under Muffet (she did wonders with Achonwa). Maybe Mulkey would have helped her (Griner's game expanded during her time there). Possibly under VanDerveer. Walz improves his players, but his bread and butter seems to be perimeter players/wings.

So is it fair to say, after four years of college, that the ESPN/Hoopgurlz ranking of Dolson was suspect? I do not believe so; it was where ESPN/Hoopgurlz her saw her at that point in time, based on the number of times she was seen and evaluated. We all know what work she did with Geno (conditioning, weight loss, expanded passing game, greater shooting range, etc.).

Not really fair to the ranking service look at it four years later (after the best coaching in the game and all of the improvements made by the UConn coaching staff and Dolson herself) and point fingers. And it is not like ESPN/Hoopgurlz could just say, "Based on what we have seen, we have Dolson ranked at #36, but because she is going to UConn, we are bumping her up to #8." That would be projecting four years of unknown.


And here is the other factor...Geno has his own player evaluations. He saw skills in Dolson with which he could work and improve. Perhaps Geno evalutes players based on his knowledge of what he can do with them based on where they are now. That is not the job of the recruiting ranking/service. But it is why Geno is the best in the business when it comes to his job.

Where was Dolson ranked by hoopgurlz? If it was 36 it was absolutely suspect. Anyhow I thought at the time somewhere she was ranked as the number 1 center in her class. Wasn't she an a/a and was invited to A/A game? if so, how did she get there if she was number 36?

 

[winlots]

HOOP: my old notes show her as 12, 13, 14, and 24.....prob researched this right after she committed.....and, as we know, the rating services to change their rankings from time to time. Also shows her at #1 center as you say. My notes also show: great kid, laughter, lots scoring moves around basket, rough, aggressive, nice touch on jumper, pivots with R and L, gets in position. Needs: strength, speed, defense.

 

[Cheddie]

NP.....Most of these services are not worth the paper they are written on..

How do you rate a player who suffered an ACL injury in January (Williams) and another who was home-schooled (Ekmark) and didn't play organized ball? Answer - you don't, unless you're just pulling numbers out of a hat. I'll trust Geno's judgment.

 

[hoophuskee]

HOOP: my old notes show her as 12, 13, 14, and 24.....prob researched this right after she committed.....and, as we know, the rating services to change their rankings from time to time. Also shows her at #1 center as you say. My notes also show: great kid, laughter, lots scoring moves around basket, rough, aggressive, nice touch on jumper, pivots with R and L, gets in position. Needs: strength, speed, defense.

Thanks WIN. Hey to me this is always a UCONN type player at 6'5 plus can pass. If you are number 1 center in your class and you can do these things, you're "pretty good." These type of skills in combination with her size should always be of high value.